The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[Luisabola]

47 minutes ago, vern said:

I offered my own swab....  Whatever....  The truth will show its self.  This world will be judged for some wicked reason... We.ll find out soon enough.

I don’t understand what you’re implying. You’ve said similar things numerous times.  Would you be so kind as to explain further please? 

[FindingJonah]

9 hours ago, carlos said:

Well, maybe comparing Shawn and me with Satan was not the kindest approach...

 

Spoiler

 

Carlos, Carlos, Carlos I would never compare YOU to Satan

 

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Michael, we are talking of inserting a swab in your nose, moving it a bit, and taking it out. What are the dangers in that?

 

In that report you quoted, did you notice what the negative reactions were? A few people had their nose bleed a bit, and in four cases the swab remained stuck in their nose. They were taken to hospital where it was extracted with some tweezers. In my first PCR the nurse inserted the swab a bit too strongly and my nose bled for a few minutes. Nothing life-threatening. In my second test the nurse was more experienced and it was only slightly annoying.

 

Nobody rejects a PCR test for health reasons. People do it out of stubbornness because they have been influenced by certain media.

How do you know? You are making sweeping absolute statements about what peoples motivation is for doing something. I’ve just quoted you doing that. Can you read hearts? How can you say that with such certainty? Maybe people do. People do all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons, Not all health issues are visible. Not all decisions are influenced by media.
I’m not attacking PCR tests but people shouldn’t have to defend their position to an absolute statement formed from your opinion that could also be arguably formed from other certain media.

look, sorry this medium makes language seems harsher than I intend. So to be clear. You are not the devil, people can have many reasons for doing things. If you haven’t done an exhaustive study in PCR testing refusal reasoning or the bible doesn't refer to it then I don’t think it’s appropriate to state anything with certainty. We can all opine and hey most people would agree with you.

 

 

[Shawnster]

38 minutes ago, FindingJonah said:

Carlos, Carlos, Carlos I would never compare YOU to Satan

So, it was just me then? 

 

38 minutes ago, FindingJonah said:

How do you know? You are making sweeping absolute statements about what peoples motivation is for doing something. I’ve just quoted you doing that.

I felt the same way.  At the very least, you were comparing us reassuring people that the PCR test was safe to Satan's reassuring of Eve that eating the fruit was safe.  

 

How did we get to this point where now we are debating whether to even take a PCR test for coronavirus?  I mean honestly, what is the underlying agenda here?  What would you have us do? 

 

Some Witnesses refuse the vaccine and push back against ones who advocate it.  In early to mid 2020 some Witnesses argued against against mask mandates and social distancing /limiting public gatherings and pushed back against ones who advocated them. Now we have Witnesses arguing against covid testing methods and are pushing back against ones that support the safety of these tests.  How did we get here and why are we here? 

 

Are there other testing methods?  It appears that way based on some comments here. Are they better than the nasal swab? Possibly, based on those same comments.  No doubt we will continue to see refinements in testing methods. 

 

I do not understand these claims of government conspiracy and control methods.  In fact, these are the same accusations some have made about the origin of COVID-19 and the subsequent variants. This level of control would require all the governments to work in cooperation with each other to maintain the charade, but we see from Bible prophecy and world events that the KOTN and the KOTS do not cooperate with each other. 

 

It just boggles the mind.  What would you have us do? Encourage people to protest government safety measures, refuse to cooperate with the superior authorities, and keep stirring peoples fears by telling them these so-called safety measures are really dangerous and life threatening? 

 

38 minutes ago, FindingJonah said:

So to be clear. You are not the devil,

Then perhaps think a little more before you compare the words of encouragement a Witness uses to the words of encouragement Satan used.  

[vern]

They...

They worship the wild beast.

They are satans seed.

 

Jesus was accused of using satans power to get demons out of poeple. Jesus said satan would be divided if so.

 

Satan wouldn.t get rid of false religion Jehovah puts it in thier heart.

 

Governments are divided as per Jehovahs purpose.

 

No reason behind the scene satans seed... They... Aren.t united.

[Cheeks]

It’s quite sad to see how the matter of mask wearing and/or a vaccine can even cause divisions with ones in the congregation.

Health matters are a personal choice, that is true.

But if the government’s AND the governing body have advised that vaccines are of little to no risk, that wearing a mask reduces transmission, etc….wouldn’t the wise course be to follow their directions?

I am personally convinced if vaccines or rapid tests or PCR tests would put our lives in danger that Jehovah would inform us. We can put our full reliance on him that he has our best interests in mind. Like a trusted friend who says he/she will do something for us and 99 times they do what they said…what makes us think they wouldn’t do it the 100th time?

I personally don’t listen to any of the fear mongering or conspiracies floating around - it’s obvious humans have no sense of what’s right anymore. We know this from studying Bible prophecy. Let them flounder in darkness while we are in the warm sunshine of Jehovahs organization.

Like the song says: listen, obey and be blessed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FindingJonah]

6 hours ago, Shawnster said:

So, it was just me then? 

I felt the same way.  At the very least, you were comparing us reassuring people that the PCR test was safe to Satan's reassuring of Eve that eating the fruit was safe.  

 No Shawn.  I wasn’t. I was trying to compare a statement with another statement. This is important as you both seemed to ignore my point and perhaps looked to take offence. But I am glad you picked up on the subtlety of language. Do you also not realise that maybe throwing around words like “crazy” and “conspiracy”, and “mind boggling” can affect,  offend and disenfranchise some of your brothers.

 

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How did we get to this point where now we are debating whether to even take a PCR test for coronavirus?  I mean honestly, what is the underlying agenda here?  What would you have us do? 

I have not argued against PCR testing so please stop trying to insinuate an agenda on me. I am saying that some people may have legitimate fears and concerns at the procedure and ii don’t think it’s necessarily your place to make them feel ridiculous. Or give medical advice.
 

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Some Witnesses refuse the vaccine and push back against ones who advocate it.  In early to mid 2020 some Witnesses argued against against mask mandates and social distancing /limiting public gatherings and pushed back against ones who advocated them. Now we have Witnesses arguing against covid testing methods and are pushing back against ones that support the safety of these tests.  How did we get here and why are we here? 

 

Are there other testing methods?  It appears that way based on some comments here. Are they better than the nasal swab? Possibly, based on those same comments.  No doubt we will continue to see refinements in testing methods. 

 

I do not understand these claims of government conspiracy and control methods.  In fact, these are the same accusations some have made about the origin of COVID-19 and the subsequent variants. This level of control would require all the governments to work in cooperation with each other to maintain the charade, but we see from Bible prophecy and world events that the KOTN and the KOTS do not cooperate with each other. 

? 

I don’t want to get dragged into that. Again I just tried to correct you both by pointing out that PCR tests were not 100% safe.  99%+ sure but not without risk. 
 

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It just boggles the mind.  What would you have us do? Encourage people to protest government safety measures, refuse to cooperate with the superior authorities, and keep stirring peoples fears by telling them these so-called safety measures are really dangerous and life threatening

Em no. What would I have you do? Well I suppose recognise peoples fears, respect their opinions and reassure them with truth rather than making absolute statements. By speaking loudest and last all the time you may be inadvertently fomenting disunity.

I mean this thread is full of it. I don’t think we’d all speak in a Kingdom Hall in such a manner. If a brother came up to you IRL and said they were being forced to take a test that they did not want to take, would you really tell them they are being foolish and that this test is 100% safe or would you try to win them with compassion and truth.

 

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Then perhaps think a little more before you compare the words of encouragement a Witness uses to the words of encouragement Satan used.  

• 
  
•  

I didn’t see encouragement. I’m sure that was your intention but telling someone they are wrong and they have no grounds for how they feel (as some implied) is less that encouraging.

 

if I have offended you with any of my posts I am truly sorry. My point was about language and absolutes.

[carlos]

11 hours ago, FindingJonah said:

If you haven’t done an exhaustive study in PCR testing refusal reasoning or the bible doesn't refer to it then I don’t think it’s appropriate to state anything with certainty. We can all opine and hey most people would agree with you.

Michael, I understand your points about absolutes and all that, but this is merely a practical situation. The Bible says obey the authorities. The authorities mandate a PCR test. It's not a difficult or dangerous requirement, it's a very simple thing in fact. IMO it doesn't make sense to lose your job (if you need it) over something like that, even if you dislike it.

 

If the brother is willing to lose his job for this insignificance, it's his choice. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I won't be paying his bills. But it's wise to choose which battles to fight and which battles to let go.

[Shawnster]

4 hours ago, FindingJonah said:

I mean this thread is full of it. I don’t think we’d all speak in a Kingdom Hall in such a manner. If a brother came up to you IRL and said they were being forced to take a test that they did not want to take, would you really tell them they are being foolish and that this test is 100% safe or would you try to win them with compassion and truth.

Yeah, I probably would.  If someone in the congregation expressed to me their genuine fears and concerns about a PCR test, I would do my best to allay their fears and that the st tests are safe. 

 

I don't recall stating adamantly these tests are 100% safe. I don't recall stating a percentage.  Your comments, however, indicate that I have.  You perceive carlos and I are misrepresenting you and you take offense. Then you turn around and misrepresent mine and carlos words. 

 

Condoms are not 100% safe (or effective) either, yet if someone came to me questioning the safety of condoms, I'd tell them they are safe. 

 

4 hours ago, FindingJonah said:

I have not argued against PCR testing so please stop trying to insinuate an agenda on me

You, me, and carlos are not the only 3 involved in this conversantion. All our members can read these statements and others have been in the conversation longer than the 3 of us.  The comments I made about pushing back against PCR tests were not exclusive to you. 

[Dhanyel]

It's not all that monster they say, it's just a test!!! 😄

[vern]

like i said....  i have no problem with the test.  I.m not sticking thier swab... twisting it 20 times which has no value as to getting more mucus on the thing.   the test says mucus sample....  you don't need to stick something in your person to get a mucus sample.

[FindingJonah]

2 hours ago, carlos said:

Michael, I understand your points about absolutes and all that, but this is merely a practical situation. The Bible says obey the authorities. The authorities mandate a PCR test. It's not a difficult or dangerous requirement, it's a very simple thing in fact. IMO it doesn't make sense to lose your job (if you need it) over something like that, even if you dislike it.

 

If the brother is willing to lose his job for this insignificance, it's his choice. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I won't be paying his bills. But it's wise to choose which battles to fight and which battles to let go.

Before I caught in the mire again. I was not arguing against PCR tests. In your opinion it doesn’t make sense but in another Brother’s it does. In the case of this brother it is not even the PCR test but the apparatus. He considers that dangerous and a risk and a significant minority of people, brothers, doctors and scientists share that concern.

Love covers all this, for me - you give your counsel truthfully, and tactfully let them consider and because they are not violating God’s law, support their decision.
 

Unity does not mean conformity. 
 

 

 

 

[FindingJonah]

3 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Yeah, I probably would.  If someone in the congregation expressed to me their genuine fears and concerns about a PCR test, I would do my best to allay their fears and that the st tests are safe. 

I don't recall stating adamantly these tests are 100% safe. I don't recall stating a percentage.  Your comments, however, indicate that I have.  You perceive carlos and I are misrepresenting you and you take offense. Then you turn around and misrepresent mine and carlos words. . 

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What harm do you think is going to happen to you?  The PCR test is very uncomfortable, but it does not injure people. - Shawnster

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A PCR test is not harmful in any way. - Carlos 

 

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Jonadab said:

It's not all that monster they say, it's just a test!!! 😄

You want to stick that where? 😱🤣

[Sofia]

Immunity - these are NOT  anti-vaxxer comments.

Are just facts that prove that if you HAD covid, you ARE protected.

If you dont know if you had, by all means either test your immunity or get the vaccine.

 

This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection, against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant Question 2: Are the data on natural immunity also valid for the Omicron variant? Answer: Yes

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Sofia

[vern]

so i live in america.  6 months ago saliva tests were available and being made;  but now everything is nasal swab... only....

I don't want a foreign entity in my body. absolutely no technical reason why i should be forced to stick their swab up my nose.  but america is like only supplying nasal swab.. when entire world allows saliva testing.  i found one saliva test but the dumb thing is 160 dollars....  plus i have to proctor this thing with video meeting.. like come on.. for realz...  discrimination....  vaccinated get covid viruses just the same....

 

may Jehovah cut short the days....

[Mykyl]

4 hours ago, vern said:

so i live in america.  6 months ago saliva tests were available and being made;  but now everything is nasal swab... only....

I don't want a foreign entity in my body. absolutely no technical reason why i should be forced to stick their swab up my nose.  but america is like only supplying nasal swab.. when entire world allows saliva testing.  i found one saliva test but the dumb thing is 160 dollars....  plus i have to proctor this thing with video meeting.. like come on.. for realz...  discrimination....  vaccinated get covid viruses just the same....

 

may Jehovah cut short the days....

Only nasal swabs in the UK. Same on the other side of the world where my brother lives. 
If you come back positive then at one time you then did both nasal and oral samples but now it’s only nasal. 

[hatcheckgirl]

Vern, I want to reassure you, I’ve had these nasal swabs. It’s yucky. It isn’t nice. But it’s very quick. We only do nasal swabs here too. 

 

Also, our local needs part last week showed the brothers in the Australasia branch lining up for nasal swabs so that they can volunteer for the Jesus movie project. Maybe that will reassure you too?

 

I hope you can see it another way. It would be a shame to lose your employment over this. We need to yield and be reasonable for things that aren’t against what Jehovah requires. Please take care, my brother. 

[Hugh O'D]

10 hours ago, vern said:

america is like only supplying nasal swab.. when entire world allows saliva testing.

 

6 hours ago, Mykyl said:

Only nasal swabs in the UK. Same on the other side of the world where my brother lives. 

Same in Ireland. @vern my brother, I fear you are being lied to. Years ago I found that anyone who told me "It's only this place/ school/ job/ country that does X, the entire world doesn't", they were either an idiot, a liar or both. Whoever is feeding you this does not have your best interests at heart. Contrast that with all those on this forum who have shown in their comments that they genuinely care about you and your situation.

 

End of the day I'm not in a position to say "do this or do that to you", but I would echo others in encouraging you to talk to Elders that you feel comfortable with about this. And be very cautious of who in the world you listen to.

 

Agape from another Calvin and Hobbes fan.

[vern]

well... if you went thru what i went thru....  you would fight tooth and nail to keep your self safe....

[Michał]

2 hours ago, vern said:

well... if you went thru what i went thru....  you would fight tooth and nail to keep your self safe....

Dear Brother Richard, maybe that's the key here, we don't understand you fully (I'm not in the US so it's even harder for me) so we can't empathize enough, but we would like a lot to help you and support you. If you had a traumatic experience that makes it very difficult for you (emotionally and mentally) to perform nose swabs that I no wonder that you trying everything else. Moreover did I get it correctly that they are watching you when you are doing a nose swab? It would make me feel uncomfortable too. It's one thing to get the procedure by a nurse and another while others watch.

 

Our beloved brother Richard, pray to Jehovah for strength and wisdom. He will support you, comfort you and strengthen you.

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

6 Million reported fatalities
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Old (Downunder) Tone
 

Edited March 7, 2022 by ➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone

[FindingJonah]

Dr Campbell brings us through the Pfizer report on adverse reactions.

 

worrying 

[Hugh O'D]

2 hours ago, FindingJonah said:

Dr Campbell brings us through the Pfizer report on adverse reactions.

 

worrying 

My "dancing doctor on TikTok" deals with Pfizer's 9 page report  of adverse effects in less time than it took you to read this. Not worrying.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMLfMFUrs/

 

From mednews regarding the 55,000 pages already released

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/97544

 

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Children's Health Defense, a nonprofit that has taken a stance against the use of COVID vaccines in kids, highlighted a list of adverse events reported in the documents -- a list that includes any adverse events that occurred in people who participated in the clinical trial, even those who received placebo, and is misleading, experts have said.

And I got all this in far less time than I'd have wasted on that

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Moderators:

cool it

Ahem, so not worried.

[Friends just call me Ross]

2 hours ago, FindingJonah said:

Dr Campbell brings us through the Pfizer report on adverse reactions.

 

worrying 

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“DO NOT put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. . . . .” (Psalm 146:3) 

He sure is right about the loss of trust, between the sea of mankind and its rulers.

[Luisabola]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59970281
 

Interesting report about the UK and hopefully how it could be endemic soon. Although the rest of the world, poorer nations that haven’t had the vax is still fully in pandemic stages. It’s not fair that based on where you live you get better medical care, but hey, that’s satans system for you.