Two Dead in Shooting at Jehovah’s Witness Kingdom Hall in Colorado

[Qapla]

It was also sad that the news clip linked above had to keep tying in "Christmas" during his reporting, almost making it sound as though there was some special Christmas program/meeting at the KH.

 

As far as guns go, it may have been a handgun, but many hunters also own them since they are used when hunting. If you can just get past any predetermined aversion to him owning/using a "gun" ... consider that, seems he had already determined to kill her and take his own life since he went prepared, he could have done the same thing with a knife or razor.  It was not the weapon he chose to use that makes this so tragic - it was that he did it that makes it so bad.

 

 

[Brother Arellano]

i agree with John on this one. Many Brothers and Sisters own firearms. Which could be a foreign concept in some countries. We all have different cultures and experiences. That makes us unique. But we are united under our love of Jehovah. 
 

Living here in Colorado it quite common to own a firearm for hunting, protection against wild animals, sport shooting. In my local congregation I’d guesstimate 75% of households have at least one in their home. But, knowing Jehovahs standards none of those would ever consider using it to take a human life. 

[Roberto Flores]

On a day that's historically associated with joy, family and fun, we 're saddened to inform you of the following.

On December 25th, 2022, at approximately 9:00 AM, the Thornton Police Department received a call reference a structure fire at Kingdom Hall, 951 Milky Way. It was then reported that an adult female was shot and killed by an adult male, who then shot and killed himself. The deceased individuals were married and former members of the Kingdom Hall congregation.

The Adams County Sheriff's Office Hazardous Material Unit is currently investigating suspicious devices found at the scene.

The identities of the deceased individuals will be released at a later date by the Adams County

Coroner's Office.

[Lee49]

Tennessee passed a gun carry law , you don't need a permit to carry no longer, I've only seen a few people carrying a weapon, many  have them in their cars including women as there is a big increase in gun sales to women. It seems everyday there is a shooting here, road rage incidents also in Nashville and surrounding areas, too much growth and traffic on interstates is out of control.

[Qapla]

Terrible

Edited December 26, 2022 by Qapla

[Amygdala]

Sad. Compare it to deaths in Canada, huge difference…

[Amygdala]

We recently had a hunter here in Germany illegally smuggling wild dead animals. When he was pulled over, he shot and killed the 2 young rookie police officers. It was a brutal, almost heard of killing here as guns are heavily regulated.

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/germany-shocked-by-shooting-dead-of-police-officers-caught-off-guard-1.4791837

 

But if I lived in an area where every second or third household owned a gun at home or in the car, I would be absolutely terrified of road rage. Or even sending my child off to public school. Of course the US is not the only country subject to high incidences of violence.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Woanders

[Aja]

4 hours ago, Qapla said:

It was also sad that the news clip linked above had to keep tying in "Christmas" during his reporting, almost making it sound as though there was some special Christmas program/meeting at the KH.

 

As far as guns go, it may have been a handgun, but many hunters also own them since they are used when hunting. If you can just get past any predetermined aversion to him owning/using a "gun" ... consider that, seems he had already determined to kill her and take his own life since he went prepared, he could have done the same thing with a knife or razor.  It was not the weapon he chose to use that makes this so tragic - it was that he did it that makes it so bad.

 

 

I wonder if we'll have guns in the new system?

 

I wonder if we'll have knives in the new system?

🤔

[Michael]

4 hours ago, Brother Arellano said:

i agree with John on this one. Many Brothers and Sisters own firearms. Which could be a foreign concept in some countries. We all have different cultures and experiences. That makes us unique. But we are united under our love of Jehovah. 
 

Living here in Colorado it quite common to own a firearm for hunting, protection against wild animals, sport shooting. In my local congregation I’d guesstimate 75% of households have at least one in their home. But, knowing Jehovahs standards none of those would ever consider using it to take a human life. 

This describes our brothers and sisters in Alaska. MANY brothers here own a variety of firearms including pistols. Many sisters own them as well. Even many here who are not hunters own them. Some because they enjoy shooting sports and some because they enjoy hiking and camping and the threat of bears and angry moose is real. Especially with moose. They’re cranky animals who often don’t yield to humans when they have young ones and moose are very prolific so there’s often calves around a cow. Alaska is a safe place for us who enjoy hunting and shooting sports without being criticized. 
 

I grew up in Phoenix where most of our friends aren’t outdoors minded. I skipped my usual Friday service day in 1993 to go deer hunting just north of phoenix and a sister asked my mom if I was sick since I wasn’t out in service. My mom said no, that I went deer hunting. The sister, taken back, asked my mom if I was using a bow. Mom said no he’s using a rifle. She gasped and asked if I was still in the truth lol! It is a foreign concept to some of our friends. Even those in the USA. Granted that was almost 30 years ago but still somewhat true in some areas. 
 

Its hard to say what was going through the perpetrator’s mind and why had owned or had possession of a firearm. Did he get one specifically for this event? Did he have it prior? Did he snap recently or was this plan on the works for a while? In all reality, what’s done is done and they why may or may not become fully evident. He could have had a severe mental illness and having acute symptoms and not in a rational state of mind. Or he could have been just plain evil. 
 

In any event, we’ll be praying for our friends in CO. 
 

M

[Amygdala]

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Michael said:

Even many here who are not hunters own them.

 

Of course I’m not going to talk about the pros and cons of owning a gun/pistol/rifle/machete, etc., but I don’t see how lots of people owning a firearm makes a country safe to live in, or even yes attractive enough for other cultures to come and visit. Sorry but I am just getting images of a lot of wild west going on there…lol

 

 Thankfully no one else was hurt or killed. 😥

Edited December 26, 2022 by Woanders

[Amygdala]

I was once engaged to a brother in Canada who was originally from a small hunting town and was really into hunting. He never owned a gun but bow and arrows. I once tried but failed at pulling an arrow back because of the weight of it. But hunting is a lifestyle that makes sense out in the countryside, but not so much in heavily populated cities. 

[Pink Butterflies]

5 minutes ago, Woanders said:

 

Of course I’m not going to talk about the pros and cons of owning a gun/pistol/rifle/machete, etc., but I don’t see how lots of people owning a firearm makes a country safe to live in, or even yes other cultures to visit. Sorry but I am just getting images of a lot of wild west going on there…lol

 

 Thankfully no one else was hurt or killed. 😥

I live in the US an I can’t stand it either. Mass shooting in schools, malls, grocery stores an other public places are too common now. Some politicians tried to establish some form of gun control gun but other politicians claim it encroaches upon their rights.

 

This isn’t a mass shooting instead it’s domestic violence. I hope if any sister feels threatened by their mate, even if it’s a brother, that they do whatever is possible to remain safe. 

[Tortuga]

An interesting point in the Insight about Arms: "The fact that two swords were available among the disciples on the night of Jesus’ betrayal was not unusual for those times (Lu 22:38), and there is evidence that for Galileans in particular it was not uncommon to carry arms."

 

Its a good reminder that things can be different in other areas, times and cultures. 

[Michael]

39 minutes ago, Woanders said:

But hunting is a lifestyle that makes sense out in the countryside, but not so much in heavily populated cities. 

Everyone has the right to enjoy natural, free ranging GMO, steroid and hormone free meat. Even those that live in populated cities. 😋

[jwhess]

Is this topic veering into a "gun ownership" debate?  A death of two "former" witnesses taking place on Kingdom Hall property is sad enough.

If these deaths had been caused by any  other means, would that be the follow-up comments we focused on?

 

[Michael]

17 minutes ago, jwhess said:

 

If these deaths had been caused by any  other means, would that be the follow-up comments we focused on?

 

Not at all. Because if he had strangled her, nobody would guilt trip our friends for owning ropes or other items that could be used for murder. 

[New World Explorer]

24 minutes ago, jwhess said:

Is this topic veering into a "gun ownership" debate?

I read comments and coming to the same conclusion... thank you for putting this in a spotlight. 

 

Also there is so much that we do not know about those two.

They were former members (there is always a reason for that - especially both of them) 

Did they struggle with mental issues? 

Did they this and that ? and what about that ? etc

Too many unanswered questions. 

Owning the gun is not the reason for killing, but rather some other factors played a role. 

 

According to the Bible we are living in the last days, described as  " Critical" 

2. THE ATTITUDES OF PEOPLE The Bible says that “the last days”—the time period leading to the end—would be marked by a major deterioration of peoples’ attitudes. We read: “Men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God.” (2 Timothy 3:1-4) True, disrespect for fellow humans is not new, but only in “the last days” would that spirit reach such extremes that the era could rightly be described as “critical times hard to deal with.”

Have you noticed this ugly downward trend in people’s attitudes?
 

 

 

[Brother Arellano]

1 hour ago, Woanders said:

visit. Sorry but I am just getting images of a lot of wild west going on there

You’re not wrong. Even though it’s not too easy to obtain a firearm here they are common and you will see people in general carrying firearms in public. But even so where I live it doesn’t cause an unsafe feeling. It’s as much about the closeness and overall values of a community that make it feel safe or unsafe when you see someone carrying. 

[Amygdala]

12 minutes ago, Brother Arellano said:

You’re not wrong. Even though it’s not too easy to obtain a firearm here they are common and you will see people in general carrying firearms in public. But even so where I live it doesn’t cause an unsafe feeling. It’s as much about the closeness and overall values of a community that make it feel safe or unsafe when you see someone carrying. 

 

Yes I am starting to understand what you mean. Especially if I lived there.

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, Aja said:

I wonder if we'll have guns in the new system?

 

I wonder if we'll have knives in the new system?

🤔

Why would we have guns (the kind that propel killing force)? The only proper use of a gun is to kill or damage a target.  A gun's sole use is destructive 

 

In contrast, a knife is a tool used for cutting.  There are plenty of proper uses for knives that do not involve killing or destruction.  Knives can also be used to create.  

 

Right now it is reasonable and understandable that some Witnesses who hunt would have guns.  Everyone needs the proper tool for the job at hand.  When animals no longer feet man in the new system, will we still be allowed to hunt? 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Shawnster

[hatcheckgirl]

I've read the reports that mention they are former members.  That is what stuck out to me.  Why were former members at the KH?  Was it to return to worshipping Jehovah (the wife most probably)?  It's just me trying to understand why this tragedy happened at the KH, with the poor brothers and sisters and their families there looking on in horror.  And if it is true there was a molotov cocktail or other incendiary device involved, then it echos the murderous intent of the husband who blew up the KH in Sydney (as well as the Family Court murders of judges and others).

 

We keep our poor brothers and sisters who witnessed the tragedy in our prayers, and the family members who lost their mother and father. Those who are disgruntled with the truth sometimes manage to do these unspeakable horrors. It makes us all take note of how close we need to be with each other and with Jehovah in these days of tragic events.

[Brother Arellano]

3 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

Why were former members at the KH? 

This is an answer I haven’t found yet. My brain has been jumping to conclusions all day. I am hoping that she had chosen to return to Jehovah, or at least seek the council of the BOE. 

[Brother NM]

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20071201/Questions-From-Readers/
 

 

[Loopy]

23 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

 Why were former members at the KH? 

I think this question has us all stumped. I thought maybe the article had that sentence twisted. That they meant to say the wife was a witness and the husband was formerly one. 🤷‍♀️ But guess we’ll have to wait and see if another article comes out that is more clearer.

[New World Explorer]

35 minutes ago, Loopy said:

I think this question has us all stumped. I thought maybe the article had that sentence twisted. That they meant to say the wife was a witness and the husband was formerly one. 🤷‍♀️ But guess we’ll have to wait and see if another article comes out that is more clearer.

Media often jumps to conclusion, and sometimes they sadly do not have time to investigate properly, because publishing window might be within few minutes before others publicize information. So if they want to be the first, they go with the "best" information at hand.