GB update #2 2023

[Doug]

8 hours ago, MullumMiss said:

Personally I don’t understand why the topic of whether these new GB members are of, or not of “this generation.  Why the need to discuss the logistics of them not being “this generation”.   We also know there are only a few more prophecies to be fulfilled before Armageddon.  

 

Good questions.  Add another one:  Why did Jesus make the statement about "this generation"?

 

As we keep on the watch, we see the fulfillment of the sign that we are deep into the last days.  But still, how long might these last days drag on?  We know they have to come to an end eventually, which is the GT.

 

What Jesus said puts a stopwatch in the background.  While we observe the sign all around us, the stopwatch is ticking down.  Jesus said "this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen".  Would he make a statement that couldn't be understood?  Of course not.

 

We used to assume that he was referring to all the anointed living during the last days.  And we watched as the number of partakers slowly declined.  We believed the end would come before they would all be gone.  But, then the number began to increase!  What?  

 

But Jesus statement never changed.  So, then, who are "this generation" that he was talking about?  Cook?  Feegle?  Winder?

 

Do the angels know?   "Into these things (?) angels are desiring to peer"   1 Peter 1:12

Why would we not be interested?

[MullumMiss]

9 hours ago, jayrtom said:

 

But, interestingly, on the video about this generation, Br Splane said that "all of the GB members are from this generation".. He didn't need to say it...but he did...

Yes I agree but Bro Splane as I remember was just clarifying “this generation”.  Remember back in the 80’s it changed then later it changed again somewhat.  Then Bro Splanes talk with the full clarification.  In the initial change in the 80’s it caused many (including friends of ours) to start to doubt the closeness of the end and then to criticise the organisation.  Many (our friends) fell to apostasy.  Because of the original understanding  we used to always calculate the “alive in 1914” so now very old, so we are very close to end as these ones are quickly dying.  Now because clearly those “alive in 1914” have most certainly died we have Bro Splanes explanation as to why we can say “this generation will not pass away until all these things happen” Lu 21:32.  “This generation” meaning faithful anointed ones as opposed to wicked generation.  “Wicked” being the 80’s change.  

[MullumMiss]

2 hours ago, Doug said:

 

But Jesus statement never changed.  So, then, who are "this generation" that he was talking about?  Cook?  Feegle?  Winder?

 

Do the angels know?   "Into these things (?) angels are desiring to peer"   1 Peter 1:12

Why would we not be interested?

All true and logical reasoning, however IMHO its “the generation” we are interested in and not individuals.  Just a thought not a criticism.  

[Doug]

9 hours ago, MullumMiss said:

 IMHO its “the generation” we are interested in and not individuals.  

 

AGREED!    I think the topic is fascinating, full of mystery and intrigue.  I'm not interested to know them by their names.  But, in 1992, along came that last one.  The last anointed brother or sister who overlapped with the first group.  Afterward, regardless of how many more would receive the heavenly hope, "this generation" was "in the books".  And those would not all die before the GT.  And it wouldn't necessarily go down to just a few.

 

In 1992 the service report tells us there were 8,683 partakers.  That's 6% of the total 144,000.  So, we were down to just 6% 31 years ago!  Where we at now?  3% ?   1% ?

 

We don't know, because there was an unexpected increase in partakers.  Mixed in with all the latter-day anointed are those of "this generation".

 

When a person becomes a publisher, a Publisher Card is generated.  This card records the publishers activity and service privileges (Pioneer, MS, Elder etc)  This card also indicates if the publisher has the earthly hope (Other Sheep - OS) or the heavenly hope (Anointed - A).  Since virtually all the newly dedicated and baptized profess the earthly hope since 1935, their publisher card will indicate OS.

Once the publisher receives the heavenly hope, their Publisher Card will be updated from OS to A.

 

So, it would be easy to look at the records and know in what year someone moved from OS to A.  Therefore, we can know how many first started partaking after 1992/1993.

And it would be easy to know how many of today's partakers moved from OS to A before 1992.

 

That kind of data would only tell us how many of "this generation" remain with us today, not who they are.  How would it effect us to know how many there are?  If there are only 1%, that's like when your mobile phone battery is displaying in RED, 1%.   Would it cause panic?  Possibly.

 

It's not data anyone can figure out for themselves.  But I wouldn't be surprised if our GB have that data.  We are a data driven organization.  The nearness of the GT is a factor in our message; the topics, special campaigns etc. But it will never be shared because it would be very disruptive.  1975 deja vu.

[Dages]

3 hours ago, Doug said:

In 1992 the service report tells us there were 8,683 partakers.  That's 6% of the total 144,000.  So, we were down to just 6% 31 years ago!  Where we at now?  3% ?   1% ?

 

We don't know, because there was an unexpected increase in partakers.

It wasn't unexpected, when we got the article in 2006-2007 about the fact that there may be other anointed and the number wasn't closed, that's a relevant date... My mom started partaking after that, but she wanted to partake in the 80s (but we were told the number is closed).

[Jay D]

I've been in the truth many years, and the illustration Jesus gave about "this generation" has simply taught me that there will be faithful anointed ones still on earth who will witness some of the events of the great tribulation just before Armageddon. 

It doesn't matter who they are or where they are, or even if our understanding changes again, I've read to the end of the Bible each year, and I still find out we'll all eventually get to Paradise with the help of God's Kingdom 😉

Brothers, it doesn't matter about the technicalities of doctrine, we may realise into the new world we didn't get things precisely correct but hey, what matters is that

 

We worship the only true God Jehovah.

We recognise and obey the leadership of His Son Jesus Christ.

We live in a way that's acceptable to Jehovah.

We carry out our ministry.

We remain united in Jehovah's Organization.

 

Everything else is not a worry to me. Jehovah has always introduced new doctrines and commandments and adjusted others over the centuries to his favoured people. As long as we're trying to be humble and remain united with current understandings, we will always do well. 😊

 

[Doug]

7 hours ago, Dages said:

 we got the article in 2006-2007 about the fact that there may be other anointed and the number wasn't closed, ... My mom started partaking after that, but she wanted to partake in the 80s (but we were told the number is closed).

 

Oh, your dear mother!   God's spirit was bearing witness with her spirit (Roman 8:16) in the '80s but your mom refrained because the direction from the organization was contrary!   What a test for your dear mother!!!

 

I find it curious that the 24 Features of the Sign found in the 1993 March 15 WT does not include "this generation".

 

It's curious because included in the 24 features is the ambiguous #18 "Excessive eating and drinking by some".

 

And yet Jesus made a direct connection between "this generation" and the GT.

[jayrtom]

2 hours ago, Doug said:

because the direction from the organization was contrary! 

 

 

I don´t think there was any direction prohibiting one to partake...

No one can be prohibited to partake, not even a visit

 

Quote

*** w07 5/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***

Hence, especially after 1966 it was believed that the heavenly call ceased in 1935. This seemed to be confirmed when almost all who were baptized after 1935 felt that they had the earthly hope. Thereafter, any called to the heavenly hope were believed to be replacements for anointed Christians who had proved unfaithful.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2007327&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=5

 

[minister159]

15 hours ago, Doug said:

That kind of data would only tell us how many of "this generation" remain with us today, not who they are.  How would it effect us to know how many there are?  If there are only 1%, that's like when your mobile phone battery is displaying in RED, 1%.   Would it cause panic?  Possibly.

 

It's not data anyone can figure out for themselves.  But I wouldn't be surprised if our GB have that data.  We are a data driven organization.  The nearness of the GT is a factor in our message; the topics, special campaigns etc. But it will never be shared because it would be very disruptive.  1975 deja vu.

 

But then we always have to consider the "X" factor:

 

 “Jehovah knows those who belong to him.” (2 Tim. 2:19) Unlike Jehovah, the brothers who count the number of those partaking at the Memorial do not know who truly is anointed. So the number includes those who think that they are anointed but are not. For example, some who used to partake later stopped. Others may have mental or emotional problems that make them believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven. Clearly, we do not know exactly how many anointed ones are left on earth." --- w20 January p. 29-30

[jwhess]

It is probably a blessing not knowing individual details.  Hypothetically, if a young baptized publisher became anointed when he was 20 years old (anointed by 1992) and they lived to be 100 years old, the generation could still be going in 2072.  So we are not planning on the GT being delayed another 50 years.

 

Not knowing these details helps us keep focused on our works assigned and the nearness of the end.  Jehovah chose the date of the end before any of these anointed ones were even born.  Armageddon is not determined by the age of humans not by any math percentages.  Our hope should not be attached to the math either...❤️

[Parale]

1 hour ago, jwhess said:

Hypothetically, if a young baptized publisher became anointed when he was 20 years old (anointed by 1992) and they lived to be 100 years old, the generation could still be going in 2072.

 

We don't really need to be hypothetical about, just take seven years off your end date. We know that Mark Sanderson is in the second half of "this generation", and we believe he was born in 1965 (according to his high school year book, +/- one year). And, as you say, if he lived to be 100 years old, the generation could still be going in 2065.

 

But that is not really the point. 

 

The 2008 "this generation" teaching was clarified initially in 2008, and further clarified (?) in 2010 in The Watchtower:

 

Watchtower 15 April 2010, pages 7-11 Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose

[Jesus] evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end.

 

In the September 2015 JW Broadcast David Splane's explanation added in dates, and did the maths for us. Both that Fred Franz finished in earthly course in 1992 and - key - confirming that Mark Sanderson was in the second half of "this generation"- i.e. his anointing happened before 1992.

 

And what happened just two months after the September 2015 JW Broadcast was released? Evidently after a lot of letters.... a morning worship headed by Kenneth Flodin (interesting how he changed the timeline from someone being 'in their late 20s' as Mark Sanderson apparently was, to 'in their 40s.')

 

Morning Worship November 2015 - Kenneth Flodin

Well what if a person in his 40s was anointed in 1990, he would then be a part of the second group of this generation, theoretically he could live into his 80s, does that mean this old system is going to continue possibly till 2040?’

Well indeed that was speculative, and Jesus, remember he said that we weren't supposed to try to find a formula of the time of the end, in Matthew 24:36, just two verses later, two verses later, he said "concerning that day and hour nobody knows," and even if the speculation is a possibility, there will be very few in that category.

And consider this significant point - there's nothing, nothing in Jesus' prophecy that suggests those of the second group alive at the time of the end would all be old, decrepit, and close to death - there's no reference to age. Well Jesus said simply "this generation would all pass away, would not all pass away" before he comes to full Kingly power, our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore Jesus' prophecy could reach its culmination this year and be absolutely accurate. Not all of the second group of this generation would have passed away.

 

And that is the point: There's nothing, nothing in Jesus' prophecy that suggests those of the second group alive at the time of the end would all be old, decrepit, and close to death. Jesus' prophecy could reach its culmination this year and be absolutely accurate.

 

And how did Kenneth Flodin sign off?

 

Morning Worship November 2015 - Kenneth Flodin

So there you have it, and you don't need to write in if you're thinking of doing so.

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Parale

[jwhess]

3 hours ago, Parale said:

And that is the point: There's nothing, nothing in Jesus' prophecy that suggests those of the second group alive at the time of the end would all be old, decrepit, and close to death. Jesus' prophecy could reach its culmination this year and be absolutely accurate.

 

And how did Kenneth Flodin sign off?

 

Morning Worship November 2015 - Kenneth Flodin

So there you have it, and you don't need to write in if you're thinking of doing so.

 

Not one point made changed the day that Jehovah picked for Armageddon.  So no matter how accurate we get in establishing a time period, the day remains the same.  We do not need to worry about the math...❤️

[Doug]

4 hours ago, jwhess said:

It is probably a blessing not knowing

So we are not planning on the GT being delayed another 50 years.

 

 

I agree.  I think knowing, or thinking we know , would mess us up.   It would be the "elephant in the room" and effect every decision we make.  Remember the poor decisions made by some in 1975.

 

But, Jesus could have said nothing about this. Conversely, he said  "I still have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now."  There are many things Jesus could have said, or clarified, but didn't.  Yet he made the statement about "this generation".  Why?  There has to be a reason.

 

The FDS has tried to explain, and clarified, and then Br. Flodin said "Don't write in"   

[Dhanyel]

I get sad because I can't have an understanding of the subject of Generation, even though I'm doing research. Will we have an updated version of the proclaimers book then? What I understand is that only the contemporaries of the first group are part of this generation, because they are connected with the first group,Even if more people are anointed, contemporaries will not pass away until the great tribulation happens. 

[Doug]

12 hours ago, Loyal said:

 What I understand is that only the contemporaries of the first group are part of this generation, because they are connected with the first group. Even if more people are anointed, contemporaries will not pass away until the great tribulation happens. 

 

This is the point.  No matter how many are partaking this year, next year,  "this generation"  is only declining, not increasing.  But they will not all die before the GT.  They may not all even grow old and feeble.

This underscores that the GT is scheduled to happen during their lifetime.

 

You may also check out the thread  -  The overlap in This Generation  - in the Bible Research area.

[daydream]

15 minutes ago, Doug said:

check out the thread

 

[Terk]

This GB update#2 is to be played next week (week beginning April 10). While browsing the video, I found out that the video is reduced from 17:03min to 15min. Comparing the transcripts prepared by bro Chew, I realised the whole segment on Turkey has been removed. 

[Dages]

That Turkey segment was nice, very timely. Now it's not required anymore I guess. In due time.

[Michał]

On 4/8/2023 at 9:13 AM, Terk said:

This GB update#2 is to be played next week (week beginning April 10). While browsing the video, I found out that the video is reduced from 17:03min to 15min. Comparing the transcripts prepared by bro Chew, I realised the whole segment on Turkey has been removed. 

Maybe there have been further developments that will be delivered in GB #3 and they didn’t want to confuse us?

[Luigi62]

On 4/8/2023 at 9:50 PM, Dages said:

That Turkey segment was nice, very timely. Now it's not required anymore I guess. In due time.

 

Yeah maybe. But Bro cook conludes the new version by talking about the memorial. To have to played in all congs after the memorial is odd.

 

Plus the GB 2 replaces the 15 Minute Part on this week meeting and the video was cut to perfection for The CBS to be considered in 30 Minutes