Being Healthy - while waiting for perfect health

[Snufkin]

21 hours ago, Canyon_1985 said:

Get lots of sleep, eat healthy, and exercise should do the trick I know soda, ice cream is temping but only have on weekends that's how I turned out healthy by doing that stuff if you want to prevent any diseases please follow instructions, and drink tea every night to prevent sickness( like flu, cold, RSV, covid 19 ) and go to the yearly doctor appointments! Go to my bonus topic about  amazing features of 5 animals! Remember to also stay friends with Jehovah’!

I agree with most of what you say. I must object to the idea that drinking tea prevents COVID. My own dear friend - one of our brothers - who was an avid tea drinker - died form COVID. He was in his 40s.

 

I was just trying to encourage our dear brothers and sisters to think more about their health when it comes to diet.

 

I wish you good health, and Jehovah's blessing.

 

Steve

[trottigy]

1 hour ago, Snufkin said:

Hello brother

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

I appreciate that you like meat, and that Jehovah provided it for humans - only after sin and the flood. But meat was a concession, a temporary state  - like the Mosaic law. What do you think humans consumed up till the flood, or while they were on the ark? It wasn't meat. What I have written is not my opinion, but is what the Governing Body have revealed. Shouldn't we trust them in matters of scripture?

 

I didn't say that Jehovah will take away marriage, taste, childbearing or any other gift. Food will taste glorious in paradise, but it will not be dead animal carcasses that rot inside the human gut, causing untold diseases.

 

Humans are biologically Herbivores. This is proven by the differences in intestines, teeth, saliva, acids, and digestive abilities. 

 

Have a good day.

 

Steve

 

I looked at the account in Genesis and I missed the part where Jehovah said, "But only for a little while" or "but I will take it back later". Where will I find the part that Jehovah said it was temporary?

 

50 minutes ago, Snufkin said:

Thank you for your balanced, thoughtful response.

 

You make some fair points. But I never claimed that the Governing Body recommended any specific diets.

 

......

 

Steve

 

Agreed the Governing Body has NOT recommended any specific diets. We can follow their lead and do the same. I wish you well.

[Tortuga]

2 minutes ago, trottigy said:

 

Agreed the Governing Body has NOT recommended any specific diets. We can follow their lead and do the same. I wish you well.

I like this article; it has many helpful reminders on how to eat healthy.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=502019482&srcid=share

[trottigy]

3 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

I like this article; it has many helpful reminders on how to eat healthy.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=502019482&srcid=share

 

Quote

What is a balanced diet?

 The Bible tells us to be “moderate in habits,” and that includes our eating habits. (1 Timothy 3:11) With this principle in mind, it’s good to know that . . .

•  A balanced diet includes all food groups. The five food groups include dairy products, proteins, fruits, vegetables, and grains. Some people eliminate one or more food groups from their diet, thinking that doing so will help them lose weight. But that approach can deprive your body of the very nutrients it needs.

 

Very nice article - thank you

[carlos]

4 hours ago, millenial_centennial said:

Oh I dont know if I said this (?) I never mentioned anything about vegetarianism. 

 

Sorry, you're right, I mentioned the wrong person.

The snippet I quoted actually was from brother Steve.

 

 

[Qapla]

Perhaps, before this thread comes unraveled and we all stress our preferred diet, we should ponder on this scripture:

 

“Stop calling defiled the things God has cleansed.”

Acts 10:15

[cme]

yep.

[Ishaya]

Bro Steve,can you apply your reasoning on vegan diet  to humans reverting to unclad living in the NS?

 

Because it was after they sinned that Jehovah made cloth for them too.

[trottigy]

45 minutes ago, Ishaya said:

Bro Steve,can you apply your reasoning on vegan diet  to humans reverting to unclad living in the NS?

 

Because it was after they sinned that Jehovah made cloth for them too.

 

Technically, everything that has happened to humans happened after their sin - from having children, making tools and instruments, to farming and possibly even living in homes.

 

It is not possible to infer simply because something happened AFTER sin entered into the world that it will all be removed. One really needs a scriptural basis to infer these things and there isn't any.

 

Note: Jesus was perfect and yet wore clothes, used tools (as a carpenter), and ate meat.

Edited Tuesday at 07:01 PM by trottigy

[Ludwika]

At the end of the day, not commenting on any particular diet (and I like meat, but try to eat more veggies and be moderate with the amount of meat) , I wonder who of us in the new world will be able to look in the eyes of a trusting animal and slit it's throat for the table? 

And I can't imagine horrible slaughter houses existing, so it's going to need to be a personal act 😜

Not a comment on what we'll eat, just on who could bring themselves to do it. Having said that, my Dad was a farmer, so he'd probably have no problem and we could all eat at his house! 😂

 

[Myew]

4 hours ago, Snufkin said:

Food will taste glorious in paradise, but it will not be dead animal carcasses that rot inside the human gut, causing untold diseases.

This is definitively incorrect. The majority of meat is already broken down and digested by the time it reaches the colon, as this and the previous video show (particularly with colostomy bags, and my own experiences with fiber and bowel movements...). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOBmOWmvgXw Are you familiar with any research on ketones and how beneficial they are to our brain and overall health, of how dietary fat does not get stored as fat in the body, of how our body needs and creates more cholesterol than we take in, of how our hormones such as insulin determine how what we eat is stored or disposed of?
 

3 hours ago, Snufkin said:

Now they reveal to us that we were once herbivores, and will be again... Shouldn't we trust them on this matter? 

I have read the 1961 Watchtower QFR that states "on this basis are we to conclude that all animals will be vegetarian in the new world?" "if they could subsist that way during the first 1,656 years of man’s existence, why can they not return to that way of life and keep living that way during the thousand-year reign of Jesus Christ and then for eternity?" many times over the past few years. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1961929#h=9 I do not feel that it definitively states that we will be herbviores again, but do feel that it implies that. We do not know what was in the food or the soil then that we needed that we do not have now. Still, the Governing Body has said in much more recent years that some things said in the past were incorrect. There are things that we do not know that we simply should not presume. They have insight, but they are not inspired, per their own publication. Please see 2017 Watchtower study: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2017283#h=23:0-23:381 "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction." I do believe that we should fully trust and follow their direction. Jehovah will bless that obedience and unity regardless. If something was wrong, it was never Jehovah's fault, and he has consistently used them to provide the spiritual food that is vital to everlasting life. Perhaps that direction from that article was needed at that time for some reason. Regardless, I feel that our focus now is much clearer as the light keeps getting brighter. They no longer put the focus on these types of future assumptions. They have also seen the danger in even suggesting such things as diet anymore because, sadly, some Witnesses have idolized members of the anointed or dates mentioned in articles, and in doing so have fallen away when someone was hurt or something one believed did not come to pass.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015925#h=22 "some well-intentioned brothers give unsolicited health recommendations. Granted, someone might simply offer general, practical suggestions. Paul did so when Timothy was experiencing stomach problems, perhaps because the local water was polluted. That, however, is quite different from trying to persuade a fellow Witness to use some herb, remedy, or diet that may not be effective or in some cases may even be harmful. At times, some have tried to persuade others with an explanation: ‘My relative had a similar disease, and he took . . . Then he got well.’ No matter how sincere the suggestion, we do well to keep in mind that there may be risks even with widely used medications and treatments."
I do appreciate that your suggestions are based upon your own experience rather than secondhand, and I agree with that approach. I have struggled for years with giving unsolicited advice many times because I hate to see my brothers and sisters in pain and want them to feel relief. In this instance, I want to provide counterpoints to some of your reasonings to help people have a more balanced, complete perspective of the matter. I apologize if in doing so I have in any way resorted to old argumentative tactics or attacking the person and not the problem, that is not what I intend to do and I want to do better. I must put forth more effort to (2 Timothy 2:23) "reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing that they produce fights."

 

24 minutes ago, Ludwika said:

I wonder who of us in the new world will be able to look in the eyes of a trusting animal and slit it's throat for the table? 

Provided that I still have my same personality then without my developmental disorders - I think that I could. I hope I might be able to become a rancher, at least for a time, using herds of animals to organically restore parts of the earth that have been ruined or desertified. I am more grateful than ever that Jehovah has given us these creatures. In such a situation, I imagine it's not unlike when a wild herbivore is sickly or older and accepts that it is its time and submits to the predators in order to allow the rest of the herd to escape. I can imagine such an animal coming to us as their master to let us know that it is their time and they are ready to return to the earth. Animals died in the Garden of Eden, Adam knew what death was and meant. The only way that they would get cleaned up and decomposed into new soil is through the cycles involving other creatures that Jehovah designed.

Edited Tuesday at 07:31 PM by Myew

[Doug]

10 minutes ago, Ludwika said:

 I wonder who of us in the new world will be able to look in the eyes of a trusting animal and slit it's throat for the table?

 

 

I know who.  The same people who spend lots of money to purchase a long gun, buy camo outfits, use their vacation away from work, pay for a flight to Montana, pay for a lodge, pay for their tag (license), spend days stalking the animal, spend more money getting the animal butchered for the freezer.

This would put about 200 - 300 pounds of wild game in the freezer.   But all that money would have put 1,000 pounds of meat from Costco into the freezer.  Those numbers are guesses.

 

Spoiler

 I anticipate the rebuttal to the opinion expressed above.       The reason often used is that it saves money.  But, does it really?

 

I suppose hunting in the new world would make a lot more sense than it does now.  A person could just walk into the forest and get the deer or moose. When that was used up, do it again.  Besides, the animals will die anyway, so why shouldn't they serve a purpose?

 

Fun Fact:  When I served in Bethel in 1976, I was sent to Mountain Farm in New Jersey where the apple, peach and apricot trees were, and grapes.  There were always deer coming on to the farm for the fruit.  We had a rifle and would go out and kill a deer and feed the meat to the family. 

[Myew]

4 hours ago, Áine said:

You do not need to eat meat in order to live…. There are plenty of vegetarians out there living perfectly healthy lives

I disagree and believe that this only applies to ones who have been raised on a more traditional diet incorporating meat and necessary nutrition past the point of full development and puberty. After that, the deficiencies moreso affect your brain and mental health as opposed to physical. Please see:
https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/baby-breastfed-by-vegan-mother-dies/ (sensitivity warning, depiction of breastfeeding)
https://apnews.com/article/health-crime-florida-sentencing-cb79b4b47da608f42c6f8f7a94396e5b

[Áine]

1 hour ago, Myew said:

I disagree and believe that this only applies to ones who have been raised on a more traditional diet incorporating meat and necessary nutrition past the point of full development and puberty. After that, the deficiencies moreso affect your brain and mental health as opposed to physical. Please see:
https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/baby-breastfed-by-vegan-mother-dies/ (sensitivity warning, depiction of breastfeeding)
https://apnews.com/article/health-crime-florida-sentencing-cb79b4b47da608f42c6f8f7a94396e5b

Well then we will disagree.

[Amygdala]

Interesting read, brother Steve. I am not sure if you know, but the outline for the yearly pioneer meeting this year with the elders was focused on proper nutrition including proper food choices, getting enough sleep, and managing stress. We are what we eat, and when we take care of our bodies, we will be treated back well, manage stress, and even heal our bodies.

 

But none of us should push our opinions about what constitutes healthy, because for some healthy may mean no meat, for others only meat, for another no gluten, or no sugar, no carbs, no alcohol, no coffee, having a daily coffee, etc., etc. We each only have that personal responsibility to check what works for ourselves personally. How our own bodies react in a positive way are a testament in itself. But to push our opinions about what a person should or shouldn’t do will only cause divisions, if we are not careful. 

 

Being healthy is a concern to Jehovah. Our bodies are precious to Him, and we should try and view it in the same way, too. If we can‘t go out in the ministry due to poor eating choices, then that is something to address, and a person would be best to consult with a professional nutritionist or doctor who can help, and who can work with our lifestyle or genetic or family history. But that is up to that person who needs to decide for himself.

 

Satan is doing everything he can to cause disunity in the congregation today. He wants us to be critical of our brothers, show no patience for people of different abilities or limitations, and looks for opportunities to see if a person has a tendency to judge others. He will make sure to zero in on that weakness.

 

But just as we had from our recent WT, some are going through doubts about their worth to Jehovah, no matter how well-intentioned a person is trying to be, we do not want to add to a person‘s stress  by becoming too opinionated or forcing others to do more than they can at the moment. Like the Bible reading this week, Ps. 130:5 said to keep focusing ourselves on Jehovah, and vs.6 says we wait patiently for Him to set matters straight. Besides who would have thought that a yearly pioneer meeting would all be about food choices, diet and stress?

 

 

 

 

[carlos]

8 hours ago, Snufkin said:

But, the main point of this topic is that - while information in the world can be manipulated (on both sides I admit), as Jehovah's people we look to the Faithful and Discreet slave for guidance on all issues in life. In the past, they warned us against smoking, drunkenness, and drugs. Now they reveal to us that we were once herbivores, and will be again, and they (and the Bible) warn against eating unhealthily, or too much.  Shouldn't we trust them on this matter? 

 

Steve, as I mentioned before diet is a strictly personal choice. I have no problem with anyone deciding to go vegetarian or whatever. What I very much oppose to is presenting diet a a religious issue. That is wrong. We are not better or worse for eating or not eating meat.

 

The Slave does not teach that we will be vegetarian in the new world. Yes, they made this suggestion many decades ago. But you won't find it in any publication in the last 30 years or so because the Bible doesn't say anything about the matter, so anything we say about diet in the new world would be just mere speculation.

 

Neither the Bible nor the Slave recommend a plant-based diet in order to prepare us for the new world. They have suggested other things we can do with that purpose, but nothing about diet. When Elijah was weak and hungry, Jehovah sent ravens that brought him meat, not vegetables. When food was served at conventions, meat was included. And at Bethel meat or fish is served almost every day. So the Slave neither favors nor discourages a plant-based diet. If someone prefers to eat meat, that's fine. If they prefer not to, that's fine too. But we must not criticize others or try to convince them.

 

This was put very simply in this recent article on JW.org:

 

*** mrt article 87 par. 7 A Vegan Lifestyle—What Does the Bible Say? ***
According to the Bible, whether we eat meat is a personal decision. Our choice does not make us better people in God’s eyes. (1 Corinthians 8:8) No one should criticize the choice that another person makes about what he chooses to eat.—Romans 14:3.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=501100080&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=9

 

 

[Cool.As.Ice]

To eat or not to eat…

That is the question!

When I get to the new world, I will invite everybody on JWTalk to a barbecue. The price for eating meat is 5 years of your everlasting life! Like, really??? C’mon now, lol.

 

I think the only answer to this issue is that there IS no answer. Jehovah didn’t put in the Bible whether we would keep eating meat or not, so I don’t personally think this mundane issue is really worth our time, just my 2c.

 

Just getting there will be a task in of itself. In the meantime, Jehovah made provision for us to eat meat after the Flood, and it will continue to be in place until He sees fit to change it, if he changes it. We’ll just have to wait and see.

 

In any case, I hope to see everyone there…whether you eat meat or not.

 

PS: I mean well saying this, just putting this matter in perspective.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 12:50 AM by Cool.As.Ice

[Myew]

11 hours ago, Tortuga said:

I like this article; it has many helpful reminders on how to eat healthy.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=502019482&srcid=share

4 hours ago, carlos said:

What I very much oppose to is presenting diet a a religious issue. That is wrong.

4 hours ago, carlos said:

*** mrt article 87 par. 7 A Vegan Lifestyle—What Does the Bible Say? ***
According to the Bible, whether we eat meat is a personal decision. Our choice does not make us better people in God’s eyes. (1 Corinthians 8:8) No one should criticize the choice that another person makes about what he chooses to eat.—Romans 14:3.
https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=501100080&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=9

Thank you for the counsel and reminders.

 

I have been pondering on why this topic makes me defensive and irritated, feeling the need to debate things like nutrition. I think it's because #1 I've suffered physically and mentally because of diet that I had no control over, #2 I've suffered persecution because of my choices in diet, and #3 similar to how Paul addressed the Romans who were stumbled because of the relationship between meat and idolatry who judged those who ate, I feel stumbled because of the origins of not eating meat post flood being related to spritism and subsequently judge those who don't eat. I'm sorry. I should just keep my head down, shut up and mind my own business. I've said enough and I can only carry my own load of responsibility.

Edited yesterday at 04:09 AM by Myew

[Tortuga]

6 minutes ago, Myew said:

I should just keep my head down, shut up and mind my own business. I've said enough and I can only carry my own load of responsibility.

Alex, it's okay to have a different opinion and to let others have their opinion. We appreciate your contributions to the forum.

[Amygdala]

10 hours ago, Myew said:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015925#h=22 "some well-intentioned brothers give unsolicited health recommendations. Granted, someone might simply offer general, practical suggestions. Paul did so when Timothy was experiencing stomach problems, perhaps because the local water was polluted. That, however, is quite different from trying to persuade a fellow Witness to use some herb, remedy, or diet that may not be effective or in some cases may even be harmful. At times, some have tried to persuade others with an explanation: ‘My relative had a similar disease, and he took . . . Then he got well.’ No matter how sincere the suggestion, we do well to keep in mind that there may be risks even with widely used medications and treatments."
I do appreciate that your suggestions are based upon your own experience rather than secondhand, and I agree with that approach. I have struggled for years with giving unsolicited advice many times because I hate to see my brothers and sisters in pain and want them to feel relief. In this instance, I want to provide counterpoints to some of your reasonings to help people have a more balanced, complete perspective of the matter. I apologize if in doing so I have in any way resorted to old argumentative tactics or attacking the person and not the problem, that is not what I intend to do and I want to do better. I must put forth more effort to (2 Timothy 2:23) "reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing that they produce fights."

 

 

Congrats on your great results. This is how I learned to approach things, too, over the years. People will be very sensitive to their eating habits, and some may have issues like gluttony, too, and well, that is something that a person has to fix personally. But eating balanced, proper nutrition is addressed at the pioneer meeting, so it is a concern in general, as well.

[Tortuga]

I think it is amazing how we can be affected by what we eat, and everyone may be affected differently. 

A sister in our congregation has a daughter with developmental issues, her daughter would get migraine type headaches frequently. One day the sister decided to go vegan, and her daughter stopped getting headaches. They are very happy with their decision. 

[trottigy]

I don't know if you lke secular books or not, but we just read "Lessons in Chemistry" for the book club at work. This is a line from it:

 

"Food is the catalyst that unlocks our brains, binds our families, and determines our futures."

 

It's true.  

[Old]

8 hours ago, trottigy said:

I don't know if you lke secular books or not, but we just read "Lessons in Chemistry" for the book club at work. This is a line from it:

 

"Food is the catalyst that unlocks our brains, binds our families, and determines our futures."

 

It's true.  

The film is available on Amazon currently. I did not know there was a book. This will be my next read.

Edited 5 hours ago by Old