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Hmm. This is a thought provoking subject. Remembering that Satan is a liar, when he said to Eve that she definitely would not die if she ate the fruit; he didn't say that because he believed that she would not die; he was telling a lie. But he was trying to seize power. Most humans have let him. This weeks watchtower Maintain the Right view of Adversity paragraph 3 made a good point:" If Jehovah were to fix all problems now, it could seem as if he was helping Satan run the world." Jehovah has gone to great lengths to provide a way of saving Adam and Eve's imperfect descendants, by providing the ransom. Jehovah knows what is true and he doesn't have to prove it for himself. He is kindly showing us that he is consistent and tells the truth. We can have confidence in Jehovah. 1 Corinthians 4 verse 9 says that we have become a theatrical spectacle to the World and to angels and to men. We can pray to Jehovah to help us to be loyal to him. We can all see that Jehovah's way is best, and the opportunity is still open for others to see as well.

Hi friends, Some years ago I found a video from an Encouraging Gathering on YouTube, where a brother was singing in the style of George Benson (guitar) and the lyrics were something like: "Let's be happy my sisters, Let's be happy my brothers, We're living in the New World..." If someone has an idea about it... it would be so nice! Thansk in advance and much love!

What is your "feed at work"? Is it a Google News view? Because its an algorithm with a selection of public news sources based on your personal profile (browse habits + everything google has about you). Or some other platform?

I think where our opinions differ is that you think Satan needed an opportunity to prove he was right. The difference is that he didn't claim to be right, he claimed Jehovah was wrong. Big difference. Jehovah gave him an opportunity to prove his point.

...The rest? -you saying all ethnicities/species need to sin to prove Satan a liar -you saying Adam and Eve's sin was inevitable by conflating an inability to prove Satan wrong with a requirement that they sin -you saying that proving Satan is wrong about humans means it doesn't apply to everyone Imagine Jehovah made a lavish meal for Adam and Eve and Satan claimed he could make an even better one. They say no and he never makes it. How long do Adam and Eve have to say no before it proves Satan can't cook? Never. You can't prove someone can't cook if you never let them cook. Their loyalty has nothing to do with Satan's ability to rule. That's a category error. What would Satan even taunt Jehovah with: "Hey, I think I can do better, but no one wants to follow me"? That's above my pay-grade.

Sounds like an easy way for an apostate to slip an ad to someone unexpectedly.

So looks like I understood 2 out of 3 parts. What did I misunderstand? So, at what point could Adam and Eve's continued loyalty be sufficient to provide an answer to Satan's challenge? Unless proven, how can Jehovah make a reply to the one taunting him? (Job 2:4) 4 But Satan answered Jehovah: “Skin for skin. A man will give everything that he has for his life. While stated in Job, this is the crux of the entire account at Genesis chapter 3. Jehovah's creation is inherently flawed. People, even perfect people, only serve Jehovah as long as the good times roll. Take away their paradise and they will curse God. (Proverbs 27:11) 11 Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, So that I can make a reply to him who taunts me. The only way Jehovah could make a reply was if humanity rebelled. Otherwise, how could Jehovah make a reply without proof?

Okay, but back to whether or not there is intelligent physical creation with freewill on other planets. I don't think the events on earth would have taken place if other intelligent physical creation with freewill exists somewhere other than earth.

It was their test of obedience. But passing an obedience test is not the same as proving Jehovah's rule is best. Their obedience doesn't touch that. And how would Jehovah "allow" Satan an opportunity to prove he could rule better if no one decided to follow him? Jehovah is not obligated to provide followers to any would-be rivals. I don't know what Jehovah would have allowed Satan to do if they had rejected his temptation. He lied to them, but is that a death sentence? Is calling Jehovah a liar a death sentence? I don't know. He obviously deserves to die now because he has caused so many deaths, but that would not be true if they had rejected his temptation. I am unsure how Jehovah would have handled it.

I thought whether or not they ate the fruit was their test of obedience. Are you saying that if they didn't eat the fruit that Jehovah would allow mankind to be continually tested? He would allow Satan or any creation to challenge his right to rule and give them the opportunity to prove if they were right? If mankind willingly accepted Jehovah's sovereignty, why would he subject mankind or any creation to that?

Yes. Emphasis on the word "prove". Humans could say they don't think Satan would rule as well as Jehovah, and have a variety of reasons, but without a visible alternative to point to, it's just a theory. If there were sufficient proof in the Garden of Eden that Jehovah's rule is best, we wouldn't have needed thousands of years to show it. "I mean, if the only way to prove water is healthier than soda is to allow a group of people to drink soda and develop health problems, then in order to prove water is healthier is that these groups of people must drink soda. No amount of study, research, or meditation will prove soda is unhealthy." 1) How could Adam prove that soda is bad for you? Where would he do this research? What would he meditate on? 2) Unlike the health effects of soda, universal sovereignty can't be proven in a laboratory. I don't know how Jehovah could prove his rulership is best without someone attempting another way. Can you give me an example of how this could be proven if Satan's temptation had failed? "So if drinking soda is equal to sin and rebellion, then Adam's sin and rebellion was inevitable. It had to happen. Satan could never be proved a liar." That does not follow. Not having the ability to prove someone is lying does not obligate you to do as they say. They could have refused his offer without providing any proof at all. "To take this a step further and apply it to multiple different physical intelligences (let's call them Martians), then they all must go through this process. This would be like each separate group of humans must perform their own soda drinking so that each group can prove soda is unhealthy for everyone. The accusation could be raised that soda drinking is only unhealthy for Polynesians or white people. Brown or tan skinned people or people who live in Scandinavia can drink soda and be just fine. One test cannot apply to all types of people and the only way to test the situation is through deliberate action." Jehovah told Adam and Eve to not eat from the tree. He did not say it only applied to certain ethnicities, so everyone who would later be born would have the same direction. In order for anyone to reason as you suggest, they must start with the premise that Jehovah lied. If they are doing that, they are siding with Satan, not conducting some neutral study on the effects of soda. To test the soda is to call Jehovah a liar. Any other species that might exist in the universe would be calling Jehovah a liar if they drank the soda. And again, we are not obligated to "prove" that soda is unhealthy. Jehovah said don't eat the fruit; he did not say we need to prove that it's a bad idea to eat the fruit. "The only way to prove Jehovah's way of rulership is the best way of rulership is to go through sin, imperfection and death." Yes, otherwise it would just be belief. Jehovah is the only one who understood without proof that his rulership is best. "And this only proves Jehovah's way of ruling is best only for humans. The Martians or Vulcans, or Wookies might actually be better off without Jehovah's rule. Each one of those separate physical intelligence must go through this same process because that's the only way. It's not possible to have one case study with one species apply to all physical creation." In this scenario, Jehovah has stated that his rule is best for all intelligent Creation. By proving Satan a liar for human rulership it would prove Satan couldn't be trusted at all and Jehovah can. Jehovah would not need to prove himself again. "That's how I understand your point of view. Is that correct?" Nope

This ad is made by a third party. In fact, you can create your own ads nowadays and spread it. I can even create my own right now and spread it. So probably because of JW Pressroom, this random individual probably thought it would be cool to create an ad online and attached the jw.org link in it. The organization is less likely to do this because they will have to pay for this ad to be shown and they are not cheap depending on how big the scope and spread of the ad. Our public ministry already handles the spread of good news so we do not need to spend money on something that is costly and isn't beneficial.

Perhaps I do not understand. Based on your illustration, it sounds like humans (or any physical intelligence) must sin or needed to sin in order to prove Satan's accusation false. I mean, if the only way to prove water is healthier than soda is to allow a group of people to drink soda and develop health problems, then in order to prove water is healthier is that these groups of people must drink soda. No amount of study, research, or meditation will prove soda is unhealthy. So if drinking soda is equal to sin and rebellion, then Adam's sin and rebellion was inevitable. It had to happen. Satan could never be proved a liar. To take this a step further and apply it to multiple different physical intelligences (let's call them Martians), then they all must go through this process. This would be like each separate group of humans must perform their own soda drinking so that each group can prove soda is unhealthy for everyone. The accusation could be raised that soda drinking is only unhealthy for Polynesians or white people. Brown or tan skinned people or people who live in Scandinavia can drink soda and be just fine. One test cannot apply to all types of people and the only way to test the situation is through deliberate action. The only way to prove Jehovah's way of rulership is the best way of rulership is to go through sin, imperfection and death. And this only proves Jehovah's way of ruling is best only for humans. The Martians or Vulcans, or Wookies might actually be better off without Jehovah's rule. Each one of those separate physical intelligence must go through this same process because that's the only way. It's not possible to have one case study with one species apply to all physical creation. That's how I understand your point of view. Is that correct? What am I missing?

Isn't it? Do all y'all think it isn't? 🤔

Until it was proven one way or the other.

I see what you are saying. If Adam and Eve didn't eat the fruit, how many times do you think Jehovah would allow Satan or any other creature raise the same issue and temptation?

I just realized it also takes you to the Bible Teach book, not Enjoy Life Forever. Does AI really make random ads? What would it gain by linking to a page that makes no money?

It is probably some AI bot that thought "All" is plural. Anyway, I went back and refreshed my starting page and that ad is gone.

Could this be posted by someone else? I only ask because it should say "All information is free" or something to that effect. I don't think that's a grammar mistake Bethel would make. Regardless, that's kind of cool.

Just a clarification. Humans in the physical realm will never have immortality. That is reserved only for those human anointed sons of God. They receive immortality upon their resurrection to heaven.

There is a lot of math and science "stuff" all the way down to how the heavier elements are made that assists in understanding why the universe is so large to make our habitat planet with life and all those elements. I imagine Jehovah explaining all that to us one day. And if He wanted you and me to know about other life out there (other than in the spirit real), He would have written it down in the book that explains everything else he wanted me and you to know. Apparently, we don't need to know.

I understood your premise, I just don't think it applies. If another species had chosen their version of not eating the fruit when tempted by Satan, that wouldn't have answered who had the right to rule. Unless Satan had been allowed to rule to prove his point about sovereignty, the preference of whomever he tempted would not prove one way or another whose rule is best, just whose rule is preferred. It would be like someone said soda is better than water, but you refused to try the soda at all. That doesn't prove that water is better and it would be a poor basis to ban soda across the universe. If, however, people drank soda and decades later they were all fat it would be proven to be worse than water and could rightly be banned. Do you see what I mean? Until it is tested, it's just a preference. Once it is tested, it never needs to be retested. If another planet of people had refused Satan's temptation, it wouldn't have proven any other point than that they preferred Jehovah's rule, and it would have no effect on us.

I don't know if this is connected, but I saw this in my feed at work for the first time: It really does takes you to our site - Why Does God Allow Suffering?—The Reason Why Suffering Began | Bible Teach That is pretty cool!!!

Since 1914, Satan was cast out of heaven and confined to the vicinity of the earth. This is where he is misleading and waging war, not somewhere else in the universe. Jehovah has thrown him into Tartarus and he will have his final chance to prove his point, once and for all, at the end of the 1,000 years. He and all those who choose to side with him, both spirit and human, will be thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, never to disturb the peace that will reign throughout the universe forever. His destruction has already been foretold, so there is no possibility of his being given a second chance somewhere else. The issue of universal sovereignty will have been settled once and for all, without the need to give him or any other rebel(s) an opportunity to prove their point. It will set a precedent in the universal court of justice.

I was replying to a comment about an intelligent race on another planet that had been tested. The issue raised by Satan is whether or not a human creation with free will would choose to serve Jehovah. If Jehovah had already created a race of perfect intelligent creatures on a different planet and gave them free will and they proved their loyalty to Jehovah through a similar challenge, then the issue would already be settled. When Satan raised the challenge on earth, Jehovah would have dismissed the challenge, the same way he will in the future. So if there are perfect intelligent creatures on another planet, they obviously were not tested as the comment I was replying to stated. That's why I didn't understand the logic of the comment.