May 2015 - JW Broadcasting

[pnutts]

Forgot to mention about increased need for halls. The new arrangement for building halls will save a lot of money.

 

For example. At our hall there are 4 congregations, 3 English and 1 Spanish.

 

Our congregation has lost a few to the congregation literally across the road, which is now bursting at the seams, however few pioneers.

 

Several live in other 2's territory, but the bursting at seams congregation has a lot of young ones in it. The other 2 not so much especially the smallest one.

 

The 3rd congregation is fairly small.

 

 With the new arrangement, the LDC team will recommend ( strongly ) that an equalizing take place, in publishers that is. Our 3 congregations' territory needs reorganizing to reflect population base/ servants available any way.

 

With each congregation's territory revamped and people going where recommended, they just eliminated the  need for a new hall. We have on paper- town permission to build on to our hall and make it a double hall. Not needed at this time.

 

This situation actually happened in Las Vegas 13 years ago at time I moved my wife to Canada. They reorganized the Whole Valley due to increased need.

The hall my wife went to - just down from airport, seated 500 but was half empty.

Edited May 12, 2015 by pnutts

[Luca]

Bro. Russell said long ago... "'Zion's Watch Tower' has, we believe, JEHOVAH for its backer, and while this is the case it will never beg nor petition men for support.  When He who says: 'All the gold and silver of the mountains are mine,' failed to provide necessary funds, we will understand it to be time to suspend the publication." 

 

This is a quote that I also had in mind when I made my earlier comment. When I was young this principle was referred to frequently. It was a given that we never petition for contributions. We took great pride in this fact.

 

In view of this broadcast can we can still make that claim? I am simply pointing out that things have changed and some of us find it difficult. 

 

I don't know if the urgent need has resulted from falling contributions or rising costs but according to the broadcast the deficit is considerable. I know that so many of our brothers and sister are of modest means and already give generously.

[Sunnyside]

Perhaps a defination of soliciting/petitioning will help.

SOLICIT: ask for or try to obtain (something) from someone."he called a meeting to solicit their views"synonyms:ask for, request , seek , apply for,put in for, call for, press for, beg ,plead for More ask (someone) for something."historians and critics are solicited for opinions by the auction houses" accost someone and offer one's or someone else's services...

a formal written request, typically one signed by many people, appealing to authority with respect to a particular cause."she was asked to sign a petition against plans to build on the local playing fields"synonyms:appeal , round robin "more than 1,000 people signed the petition"

Does this fit what the GB has done? At this rate even having contributions boxes at the KH or announcing convention expenditures and deficites would mean soliciting.

At the end of the day the organisation does not run on water. We have to up our game.

[Stavro]

I don't know if the urgent need has resulted from falling contributions or rising costs but according to the broadcast the deficit is considerable. I know that so many of our brothers and sister are of modest means and already give generously.

 

I can't speak for any congregation other than my own, but in the monthly reading of the accounts report, which includes donations to the local fund and donations forwarded to the Worldwide work, both numbers are on average just under half of what they were last year.

 

it seems to me that the downward trend started when the KH loan agreement ended, despite a resolution to keep up an identical payment to the KH construction fund.

 

Over the past few months the operating fund has went into a deficit several times, when in the past we consistently carried a surplus able to fund the standard congregation expenses for about a year.

[Tortuga]

But I would like to think that once everyone is made aware of the situation, if in the future the finances continue to show that there is still a shortfall in the budget, then I would think the wise course would be to scale things back a bit instead of encouraging us again to donate more.  Otherwise, it could be said that instead of trying to keep up with Jehovah's chariot, we may find that instead, we were trying to run ahead of it. 

That's what I assume they were doing. First, make us aware of the need. Second, give us the opportunity to respond. Third, see if Jehovah is blessing the response. Fourth, scale back the planned projects to stay within the budget Jehovah gives them through our response.

[Tortuga]

In view of this broadcast can we can still make that claim? I am simply pointing out that things have changed and some of us find it difficult. 

 

Jehovah can make the stones cry out but for 2000 years he has been using his organization to preach. Jehovah could make the gold run out of the mountains but he again lets his people provide the funds needed. Jehovah could have the water stop and the rocks move to create KH but he lets his people build them. 

 

Money is just another asset that Jehovah is asking us to make the best use of, just like our time and energy.

 

Personally, I'd feel pretty bad if Jehovah decided to have a rock cry out instead of blessing my preaching. So I think I'd feel pretty bad if he had the gold flow out of the mountains before he gave me a chance to increase my monetary contribution. I'm glad the brothers told me there was a need.

 

You said you grew up in the truth in the 70's, were you ever accused of selling magazines?

I was, but I knew it all belonged to Jehovah anyway and it was supporting the work that others were doing that I couldn't do. I didn't think selling the magazines was soliciting for money and I don't thing that being made aware of the growth of the organization is soliciting for money either.

[AH173]

I didn't think selling the magazines was soliciting for money and I don't thing that being made aware of the growth of the organization is soliciting for money either.

I'm in full agreement with thinking like this and not in line with Brothers Daniel and Christopher said earlier.

If the Faithful and Discreet Slave senses a need for all these Kingdom initiatives and pray constantly and make preparations for them - and encouragingly remind us of our share to support the work at hand- this is a good thing. My thoughts.

[Sunnyside]

May not appear so but this may well be another test of our loyalty towards the slave and the organisation.

Do we TRUST they are doing the right thing?

[PrairieGirl]

Richard, I was thinking the exact same thing. In the 70's we did not need as much donations. We were having most our literature prepaid for, instead of donations. We would order and pay for our subscriptions and the amount we ordered for service, then be reimbursed by the ones we placed, and told the people they needed to pay the cost of printing. That was the way with all of our literature. They also did a lot more farming back then. 

 

However, I must say where I have grown up, we have always had accounts told to us, even at assemblies and conventions and told when we need to try to cover more things. 

 

I trust the FDS whole heartedly that they have counted the cost and are very much handling it aright. No air conditioned dog houses at Bethel! lol ;)

[dot com world]

Well i have always trusted the FDS. Looking at this, i feel its Jehovah telling us to donate more. Why? for our benefit and the people we preach too. Look at the spiritual food we are having, the great number of kingdom halls etc. The GB have fully applied Luke 14: 28, and what happens? It wasnt them with not calculating properly, it was with us, with our dropback of contributions. So i think we should support these faithful anointed brothers of Jesus in every way. True somethings may seem difficult to adjust to and cannot be fully understood, but we should  remember at the end of the Day its Jehovah in control and we should just trust him. Everything he decides is for our own good and his sanctification of his name.

[outwalkin]

Bro. Sanderson,  Morning Worship, JW Broadcasting "Be Willing to Open Your Hand." Speaks volumes.

[dot com world]

Bro. Sanderson,  Morning Worship, JW Broadcasting "Be Willing to Open Your Hand." Speaks volumes.

i liked the illustration of those two bros....one grabs tightly while the other is open......really helped me alot to work on the area of being an opened hand giver    

[carlos]

Based on what Jehovah has already stated in the bible and our own publications, it would seem to me that if the finances show that we are not able to complete all these projects within our current budget, then maybe this is Jehovah's way of telling us we should try scaling things back a bit.  But again, I think it is wise to at least inform us of the situation so we can try to help.  But I would like to think that once everyone is made aware of the situation, if in the future the finances continue to show that there is still a shortfall in the budget, then I would think the wise course would be to scale things back a bit instead of encouraging us again to donate more.  Otherwise, it could be said that instead of trying to keep up with Jehovah's chariot, we may find that instead, we were trying to run ahead of it. 

 

 

This is a quote that I also had in mind when I made my earlier comment. When I was young this principle was referred to frequently. It was a given that we never petition for contributions. We took great pride in this fact.

 

In view of this broadcast can we can still make that claim? I am simply pointing out that things have changed and some of us find it difficult. 

 

I don't know if the urgent need has resulted from falling contributions or rising costs but according to the broadcast the deficit is considerable. I know that so many of our brothers and sister are of modest means and already give generously.

 

With all due respect, I do not agree at all with any of these viewpoints.

 

This is a public forum that anyone can read. When onlookers see comments like those above they could easily conclude that the money we donate is being wasted in some whimsical projects when that is absolutely not the case. Anyone who is familiar with the way branches work can confirm the Slave is indeed discreet and wise in their use of resources. Leaving NYC and moving to a rural area is not a whim nor an overambitious project, but an investment to save a lot of money in the near future. Every year a survey is done in every congregation asking how much we reasonably expect to donate, and the branch makes plans according to that estimate. It's not their fault if the amount actually donated, for any reasons, is much smaller than it was anticipated. Besides, once the construction work is finished and the offices move there it will be possible to sell all properties in Brooklyn, but until then that money is not available.

 

I think Russell's words above are being misinterpreted. Yes, Jehovah is the owner of everything and he will provide the funds for every project he desires to be completed. But the Slave is not begging nor petitioning, they are making us aware of the need so that we can take measures according to our possibilities and the desire of our heart.

 

When Moses built the tabernacle he didn't stay home waiting the people to contribute: He explained the need, and they were happy to contribute. When David made plans for the temple, he didn't expect the people to guess miraculously that funds were needed: He explained the situation and they contributed with joy. When need arose in the first century, traveling overseers told the congregations in advance so that when they visited some funds had already been prepared. The Slave is doing the same today: They explain the situation, and then we decide how much we are willing to contribute. Nobody is pressuring us. You don't need to donate anything if you don't feel like. Nobody's looking if or how much you donate. Contributing to advance Jehovah's work is a privilege that we are granted, not an obligation nor a burden. I don't think that's comparable with what happens in most churches, as some have suggested.

 

One thing is certain: Jehovah is supporting his organization and blessing our efforts. All these construction projects have been approved in a theocratic way, and they will be sucessful. How much we are willing to contribute is up to us, but we wouldn't want to question the faithfulness and discreetness of the Slave appointed by Jesus.

[Shawnster]

I have to admit to feeling a little bit uncomfortable.

 

When I was a young JW in the 70s we prided ourselves on never talking about money in the Kingdom Hall. There was a very brief 'accounts report' once a month and that was it. We assumed that Jehovah would move the brothers and sisters to give what was needed but nobody would dream of even hinting that anybody should donate more. I don't mean to be critical, I'm just being honest about how these changes make me feel.

 

 

All I'm saying is that this talk would have caused offense if it had been given a few decades ago. 

 

I could not exaggerate how unthinkable it would have been to have credit card machines in an assembly hall. I remember criticising Christendom for doing the same thing back in the mid '70s.

 

I realise the need for donations has increased but I'm just offering a perspective of somebody who grew up in the truth in different times.

 

This is not a valid comparison.  In the 70s, credit cards were specifically credit cards.  They weren't used for daily life and, at least from what I observed as a child, only "rich" people had them.  Now, in the 21st Century, life is different.  Credit cards aren't specifically credit cards - some are debit cards, some are gift cards and some are ATM cards.  People from all walks of life have a "credit card"  People use cards for everything from major purchases to buying lunch at fast food.  I don't carry cash, so using a card machine is pretty much the only way I can pay for anything.  

 

To compare the Organization's use of card readers for donations to Christendom's use of credit cards in the 70s is to ignore the advances life has made in the last 40 years and to expect the Organization to stay in the past.  Life has changed, the use of these cards has changed and there is nothing wrong with the Organization to keep up with these changes.  

[djuarez03]

If only comments that agree whole-heartedly with the general consensus are allowed in the public forums, then maybe it should be made a rule. Otherwise, I don't see why anybody should be reprimanded for offering their honest comments. It is a discussion forum, after all, right?

My comments were offered to provide a different perspective based on how most of us realistically live and budget in our own lives. While I'm sure Jehovah blesses every arrangement that is in line with his will, I don't think any of us can say that EVERYTHING we do or plan AUTOMATICALLY has Jehovah's blessing. Only time can tell us that. Even the Slave admitted that when they first decided to move world headquarters, they were not sure whether or not the move had Jehovah's blessing. I thought it was very humble and discreet of them to say that. It would be wise for us to follow their example and not presume anything, since only Jehovah knows what he approves. Time will reveal all things.

[Tortuga]

Bro. Sanderson,  Morning Worship, JW Broadcasting "Be Willing to Open Your Hand." Speaks volumes.

Does anyone know if there is a time limit for the Morning Worship talks?

It seems most of them are 9-10 minutes but Bro Sanderson was looking at something after about 6 minutes, it looked like he was running over time 

[Tortuga]

To compare the Organization's use of card readers for donations to Christendom's use of credit cards in the 70s is to ignore the advances life has made in the last 40 years and to expect the Organization to stay in the past.  Life has changed, the use of these cards has changed and there is nothing wrong with the Organization to keep up with these changes.  

 

I agree. The brother are just discreetly offering a more convenient and modern way to donate.

I've been assigned to sit at the credit/debit card reader table at several Regional Conventions and it is amazing how many friends will openly express how happy they are they can use a card instead of cash or check.

 

I don't think that having a card reader at the back of the convention hall is soliciting and really isn't any different than having a cardboard box in the hallway and stairways, it's just a more modern way to transfer funds, it doesn't force someone to do something they don't want to do.

[djuarez03]

I agree. The brother are just discreetly offering a more convenient and modern way to donate.

I've been assigned to sit at the credit/debit card reader table at several Regional Conventions and it is amazing how many friends will openly express how happy they are they can use a card instead of cash or check.

I don't think that having a card reader at the back of the convention hall is soliciting and really isn't any different than having a cardboard box in the hallway and stairways, it's just a more modern way to transfer funds, it doesn't force someone to do something they don't want to do.

Agree. It's much safer than carrying around cash these days. Considering I hardly carry cash these days, it is much more convenient. I'm actually hoping they adopt Apple Pay as well. That would be pretty neat, and obviously, more secure.

[Tortuga]

Speaking about it generally, or via the example given regarding the selling off of our Brooklyn properties that also didn't provide specific numbers, doesn't really give us a clear and specific picture of the situation.  I come from a financial background, so I'm used to talking about specific numbers and have learned that it is always better to be clear about these things to avoid misconceptions or misunderstandings.  Besides, we are all adults, and when we discuss finances in our family, we always like to be clear and open about them so that it is easier for everyone to be on the same page.  This is the way we do it locally in the congregations, so I don't see a reason as to why we can't do it also on a global scale.

 

It's funny how we can have different perspectives. I can understand why you would like specific numbers but personally I'm glad they didn't give a specific number. I think I would have felt uncomfortable if they said they needed a specific amount to complete a project, I'm not use to dealing with millions of dollars so any specific number they would give us might have felt overwhelming.

 

Personally I think if they had given us specific numbers, the deficit would be our goal instead of letting love being our goal. It's not about numbers, it's about love and Jehovah is showing us where our love can do the most good.

[Tortuga]

Agree. It's much safer than carrying around cash these days. Considering I hardly carry cash these days, it is much more convenient. I'm actually hoping they adopt Apple Pay as well. That would be pretty neat, and obviously, more secure.

That would be interesting. What are the recipient responsibilities with Apple Pay? Is there a fee to use it? Would it require more volunteers to manage it? Would it create more work for the brothers?

 

I'm not familiar with Apple Pay so those are honest questions, not rhetorical ones.  

[djuarez03]

That would be interesting. What are the recipient responsibilities with Apple Pay? Is there a fee to use it? Would it require more volunteers to manage it? Would it create more work for the brothers?

 

I'm not familiar with Apple Pay so those are honest questions, not rhetorical ones.  

 

Honestly, I have no idea what kind of backend work is required to set it up, other than the appropriate hardware which requires NFC capabilities. I just think it would be really neat. 

[PrairieGirl]

So true about credit cards Shawnster... I believe it wasn't til the late 90's early 2000's that credit cards started to be available for every one. (the companies got greedy could make more money off poor people who would have to pay interest forever, then rich people who could afford to pay theirs off!). I personally can't stand credit cards for that reason... but do understand that many people use them today. OTOH we do use our debit like a credit card for places that *gasp* no longer take checks or cash! 

 

Any who.... I was also thinking about our growth in the truth too... in the 70's, most people were familiar with "church" and donating towards it. That there was cost to cover etc. And I was thinking in comparison today, our growth with so many new ones... many of my generation and a great majority of their children (Which many are adults now) have not been raised in religious households. Knowing about donating/contributing, and why it needs to be done. Many have been raised told about how Christendom has misused their funds, and seen the "ministers" sitting back, getting rich, fat cats... These young new ones, may need to be taught about what our funds are going for, and why the need to contribute. It was just something I was thinking on at least.

[Tortuga]

 These young new ones, may need to be taught about what our funds are going for, and why the need to contribute. It was just something I was thinking on at least.

 

I really like the construction and factory updates on JW Broadcasting. When you see all of the construction work and all of the factory equipment, you know it costs a lot of money. I liked the old video that showed the brother unloading the paper rolls from the truck by hand and then compare that to the faster, safer, more expensive way they do it now. It really helped me understand why they need more money now than they did years ago.

[jwhess]

We do not wait to see the total cost or if there are sufficient funds on hand for any disaster relief to calculate if we should respond.  The brothers make us aware of the situation and those whose hearts are moved donate toward the solution. As long as Jehovah allows us the free will will to donate, the brothers will inform us if there is a specific need at that time.  If our circumstance allow, we may increase the donation we make.  As the broadcast noted, sometimes the need continues for a time (Paul's comments to the Corinthians).  I am truly appreciative of the opportunity to share and I need direction as to what is most important at any given time.  Some might say we should just up the amount given always, but that flies in the face of reason and sound personal economics.  My Pioneer budget is tight, but I have a small savings for emergencies and these types of special needs.  I believe that (in addition to faith), information and knowledge are keys to a giving heart.

[pnutts]

Bethelites have donated thousands at one bethel. If they out of their need give to further the kingdom who are we to be stingy.