Vegan and vegetarian brothers and sisters

[Naturale]

5 minutes ago, Duplo said:

Sure, sure. But here's the question: should a Christian be overly concerned with those things, which are often seen as political issues? As long as Satan is running things, the environment will continue to be polluted and animals will be treated poorly no matter what any human does. Those problems can't be fixed except through God's kingdom. Even if we all abstained from meat, the problem won't go away. So where does one draw the line?

It is a choice whether we eat meat or not - it isn't compulsory to eat it.   If we are not comfortable with eating it then we don't have to.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Naturale

[McKay]

Just now, Naturale said:

It is a choice whether we eat meat or not - it isn't compulsory to eat it. 

Of course. What I'm saying is, should we be making choices on things like these for reasons that might largely be seen as political?

[Naturale]

3 minutes ago, Duplo said:

Of course. What I'm saying is, should we be making choices on things like these for reasons that might largely be seen as political?

It isn't simply about a cold choice, it is about how someone feels.  

[McKay]

3 minutes ago, Naturale said:

It isn't simply about a cold choice, it is about how someone feels.  

Right on. That makes sense. I guess in my mind if I give up meat because of the environment then I should probably give up my car or taking planes or using air conditioning or on and on and on... The list would never end because our entire lifestyle is harmful to the earth. I hate it terribly but we're stuck right now.

[Naturale]

4 minutes ago, Duplo said:

Right on. That makes sense. I guess in my mind if I give up meat because of the environment then I should probably give up my car or taking planes or using air conditioning or on and on and on... The list would never end because our entire lifestyle is harmful to the earth. I hate it terribly but we're stuck right now.

Yes up to a point we have to accept the system we are in right now.    As for food I enjoy my plant based way of eating and I feel good on it.  It is very varied and I don't feel the need for meat    

[Thesauron]

Sure, sure. But here's the question: should a Christian be overly concerned with those things, which are often seen as political issues? As long as Satan is running things, the environment will continue to be polluted and animals will be treated poorly no matter what any human does. Those problems can't be fixed except through God's kingdom. Even if we all abstained from meat, the problem won't go away. So where does one draw the line?

Well, at least you wouldn’t add to the problem.

[Meditate!]

16 minutes ago, Duplo said:

Sure, sure. But here's the question: should a Christian be overly concerned with those things, which are often seen as political issues? As long as Satan is running things, the environment will continue to be polluted and animals will be treated poorly no matter what any human does. Those problems can't be fixed except through God's kingdom.

Agree.. That's true of many things

16 minutes ago, Duplo said:

Even if we all abstained from meat, the problem won't go away. So where does one draw the line?

The individual draws the line.

 

Sometimes it will be pure feeling. But that is the individual's right. Just as no Vegan should make a meat eater feel bad about eating meat, because they do, no meat eater should minimise the feelings of Vegetarian /Vegans because it doesn't bother them eating meat. 

Conscience is where you draw the line yourself. 

[Thesauron]

Right on. That makes sense. I guess in my mind if I give up meat because of the environment then I should probably give up my car or taking planes or using air conditioning or on and on and on... The list would never end because our entire lifestyle is harmful to the earth. I hate it terribly but we're stuck right now.

There are many choices you can make. Doing nothing is a choice too.

 

We can toss our plastics into the ocean or dig them down into landfills arguing that it does nothing to change anything if we do or don’t. But is that the kind of people we want to be?

 

[McKay]

4 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

There are many choices you can make. Doing nothing is a choice too.

 

We can toss our plastics into the ocean or dig them down into landfills arguing that it does nothing to change anything if we do or don’t. But is that the kind of people we want to be?

 

No. That's why I don't litter and I recycle.

[Thesauron]

No. That's why I don't litter and I recycle.

Exactly, and some of us do not eat meat when it’s not necessary, or at least cut down on it. When we do, we might pick something local that doesn’t come from large scale meat production. Some of us try to avoid fruit and vegetables that have been transported from afar, fruit and vegetables that have been treated with chemicals, and fruit and vegetables that have been grown on land where the jungle likely has been cut down. We might try to avoid food items from conflict areas. You take responsibility, and make good decisions when possible.

[BenJepthah]

On 5/11/2019 at 5:37 AM, Naturale said:

Actually the seaweed where I live measures quite high on the Geiger counter since we are not so far away from a nuclear power station.

Yikes!!

[vern]

I was vegan for 7 years.

lost 80 pounds

 

i was scared into it from getting prediabetes and it controlled it fairly good but i ate to much fruit and got diabetes anywayz.....  now i am not vegan.

also noticed my teeth and bones were getting weak.

 

so now i think being vegan for a spell for health as a fasting can be good.... but i'm not sure its good long term....

i can make arguments to believe we will be vegan in the new system as a new direction.... but time will tell.

as far as meat eating goes.... the priests ate a lot of sacrifices..... Jehovah didn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

if you want some indication to be moderate in meat beating practices read "The China Study" a book from 2006.  and there is a scripture that says do not be with those who are gluttonous eaters of meat.

 

Paul says to not judge anyone about diet choices....

[Memeber212]

 

 

 

 

3

On 5/9/2019 at 10:55 PM, Brother Jack said:

If it has to be cooked then I wonder if we are really supposed to eat it and not animals. But that’s just my opinion. In my research I’ve actually found that grains are unnecessary foods that are very difficult to digest. Here’s some info on that  https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/reasons-why-grains-are-hard-to-digest/ 

 

I appreciate your concern but my mom is a fruitarian and is doing just fine. She has the energy to do 12 hour days in service and is healthy. There’s plenty of people who live on a fruit only diet and are fine. I may eat lettuce for the nutritional value, although I’ve never liked lettuce or salad. 

 

You get vitamin D from the sun. There’s phosphorus in flax seeds and I already eat 3 tablespoons of ground flax seed a day. There’s loads of magnesium in avocados and I eat 1 or 2 a day. There’s adequate amounts of calcium in oranges. There’s just enough amounts of fat in fruit, especially avocados. Remember, fruitarians also eat nuts and seeds and get other nutrients from them. 

 

Don’t worry after  I start my journey, I’ll post my blood test results 😉

Jack, I am worried about your mum. Actually, fruitarianism is lethal in the long run. She WILL die from that after several years because of multiple organs malfunction. Consider that many people make a lot of money selling books, recipes, etc. They have a financial interest in building a group of fans around them.

1. You do not provide vitamin B12 to your body. Your body has vit. B12 only for about 4-5 years and that vitamin is only available from animal derivatives. After that time you will start cannibalising your own body. B12 is not present in any plant. It is present only with cholesterol and saturated fat. The deficit of B12 causes unreversible damages to the nerve system, especially the brain.  That causes mental problems. Long-time vegans are very often very emotional, suffer from flights of ideas. Vegetarians suffer form +40% of B12 deficiency (I am talking about vegetarians, not even vegans or fruitarians).

2. Deficiency of iron. Our bodies are able to absorb only 2% non-heme iron, so even if there are plants that are rich in iron it is mostly not absorbable by our organisms. A nail has a lot of iron but eating nails will cause anaemia anyway. Iron is absorbed with vitamin C and A. Vitamin A requires saturated fat to be absorbed.

3. Phytic acid and oxalates: These substances that are present in plants react with calcium, iron, copper and other minerals so unless the food is prepared properly you absorb almost nothing. They are simply not bio-accessible.

4. Vitamins K2, mK7. To convert K1 to K2 you need saturated fats. Without that the body is unable to properly supply bones with calcium but does well in blood vessels. That is why vegetarians have weak bones. However, there is a lot of K2 in fermented plants.

5. Vitamin A - I know there is a lot of beta-carotene in some vegetables but that is not vitamin A. We need saturated fat to be able to convert beta-carotene to vitamin A which is the form in which our body can utilise it. Only about 50% of the human population can convert beta-carotene to vit. A. The rest lack of a gene that allows that. So if those who cannot convert that will go on a vegan diet they will simply die.

6. DHA - only available form animals, especially a lot of it is present in brains and hearts. If you try to compensate with vegetable fat you will get a lot of omega-6, not omega-3. You can only absorb about 4% of omega-3 form plants. That is a lot of flax seed you would have to eat. Unbalanced, excessive proportions of omega-6 handicaps the conversion by further 50%.

You would require about 500mg of DHA a day.

7. Cholesterol is responsible for cell replacing in our bodies. That is why vegans suffer from premature ageing. The skin requires fat to be moisturised and protected.

8. Avocado - the fruit is rich in Potassium. So if you eat a lot you will get hypercalcemia, which causes kidney failure and a lot of other problems, like fluid retention.

9. Is there any culture/tribe in the world that is vegan? No.

10. Vitamin D3 form the Sun. Our body produces D3 mainly in the chest area. So you must often walk without a shirt to fully benefit from your body as the only source of d3. Black people need more sun exposure than white ones because of melatonin in the skin.

You mum is on the fruitarian diet, which is even more strict veganism and eats mostly sugars.

It is true that people feel better when they go vegan, but that that is only at the very beginning as they change often form bad habits to famine, which can be helpful for our bodies from time to time.

Please, consider the above and speak to your mum before it is too late. The Bible says that a lion will eat hay but that will be in Paradise. Any lion would die on hay nowadays. We live in a place that is nowhere near to Paradise and we are imperfect. I have not got enough time to write about all the aspects but you may google it and refer to proper scientific papers and read yourself. I guess my post is a good starting point. There must be a reason why Jehovah allowed us eating animals.

 

[Cushi]

13 hours ago, tarcamion said:

Jack, I am worried about your mum. Actually, fruitarianism is lethal in the long run. She WILL die from that after several years because of multiple organs malfunction. Consider that many people make a lot of money selling books, recipes, etc. They have a financial interest in building a group of fans around them.

1. You do not provide vitamin B12 to your body. Your body has vit. B12 only for about 4-5 years and that vitamin is only available from animal derivatives. After that time you will start cannibalising your own body. B12 is not present in any plant. It is present only with cholesterol and saturated fat. The deficit of B12 causes unreversible damages to the nerve system, especially the brain.  That causes mental problems. Long-time vegans are very often very emotional, suffer from flights of ideas. Vegetarians suffer form +40% of B12 deficiency (I am talking about vegetarians, not even vegans or fruitarians).

2. Deficiency of iron. Our bodies are able to absorb only 2% non-heme iron, so even if there are plants that are rich in iron it is mostly not absorbable by our organisms. A nail has a lot of iron but eating nails will cause anaemia anyway. Iron is absorbed with vitamin C and A. Vitamin A requires saturated fat to be absorbed.

3. Phytic acid and oxalates: These substances that are present in plants react with calcium, iron, copper and other minerals so unless the food is prepared properly you absorb almost nothing. They are simply not bio-accessible.

4. Vitamins K2, mK7. To convert K1 to K2 you need saturated fats. Without that the body is unable to properly supply bones with calcium but does well in blood vessels. That is why vegetarians have weak bones. However, there is a lot of K2 in fermented plants.

5. Vitamin A - I know there is a lot of beta-carotene in some vegetables but that is not vitamin A. We need saturated fat to be able to convert beta-carotene to vitamin A which is the form in which our body can utilise it. Only about 50% of the human population can convert beta-carotene to vit. A. The rest lack of a gene that allows that. So if those who cannot convert that will go on a vegan diet they will simply die.

6. DHA - only available form animals, especially a lot of it is present in brains and hearts. If you try to compensate with vegetable fat you will get a lot of omega-6, not omega-3. You can only absorb about 4% of omega-3 form plants. That is a lot of flax seed you would have to eat. Unbalanced, excessive proportions of omega-6 handicaps the conversion by further 50%.

You would require about 500mg of DHA a day.

7. Cholesterol is responsible for cell replacing in our bodies. That is why vegans suffer from premature ageing. The skin requires fat to be moisturised and protected.

8. Avocado - the fruit is rich in Potassium. So if you eat a lot you will get hypercalcemia, which causes kidney failure and a lot of other problems, like fluid retention.

9. Is there any culture/tribe in the world that is vegan? No.

10. Vitamin D3 form the Sun. Our body produces D3 mainly in the chest area. So you must often walk without a shirt to fully benefit from your body as the only source of d3. Black people need more sun exposure than white ones because of melatonin in the skin.

You mum is on the fruitarian diet, which is even more strict veganism and eats mostly sugars.

It is true that people feel better when they go vegan, but that that is only at the very beginning as they change often form bad habits to famine, which can be helpful for our bodies from time to time.

Please, consider the above and speak to your mum before it is too late. The Bible says that a lion will eat hay but that will be in Paradise. Any lion would die on hay nowadays. We live in a place that is nowhere near to Paradise and we are imperfect. I have not got enough time to write about all the aspects but you may google it and refer to proper scientific papers and read yourself. I guess my post is a good starting point. There must be a reason why Jehovah allowed us eating animals.

 

I appreciate your concern but I regret I even mentioned a raw vegan diet, even more so a fruitarian one since it seems to be so “controversial” to some. My mom and I don’t jump into things like this without doing a ton of research first. We have decided that it’s optimal to eat natural, whole plant based  foods that are easy to digest. 

A fruitarian diet is “lethal”? No disrespect, but where are you getting your information? We are very careful about where we get our information. I could answer every alleged problem you present but I’m kind of exhausted with talking about this. While it’s true that B12 does not occur naturally in the body, where do you think the animals got it from? B12 is a bacteria that is found in soil and the only reason humans don’t get it is because humans have depleted the soil so badly. We were somehow meant to get it from the bacteria in soil, not animal flesh. 

B12 deficiency is not exclusive to vegetarians and vegans. A Tufts university study showed that 39% of 3,000 American men and women were B12 deficient, although most Americans eat meat. Vegetarians and vegans who don’t know any better tend to be deficient in B12 and Omega 3’s. That’s why I take a certified organic, vegan methylcobalamin B12 spray every day and eat 3 tablespoons of ground flax seed a day. Easy fix. Any vegetarian or vegan who develops mental problems is getting it because they are not getting enough natural fats. This is why I eat an avocado a day and flax seeds. Just because some vegans fail to do the research on what their body needs and suffer from it, doesn’t mean it’s not an optimal way to eat.

 

Doesn’t it make sense that if most vegetables are hard to digest, can only benefit you partially by cooking them, and cooking them kills some of nutrients that maybe some animals were meant to eat them and not humans? We are not the only ones on the planet. 

Just because there may be no tribe or culture that is vegan doesn’t mean that it is not an optimal way of eating. However, there are countries that are vegetarian or eat little meat and don’t suffer from the health problems that people who eat meat do. Some people who don’t eat meat don’t even have a word for cancer in their vocabulary. 

 

Yes, I already knew that black people need more sun exposure than white people. Just because you benefit more from the sun by being shirtless doesn’t mean you still can’t get vitamin D if you wear clothes outdoors. 

 

Just because we we will be vegan in the new world doesn’t mean that Jehovah has changed our bodies to accommodate eating meat. Our digestive system is very similar to primates and other plant eating animals, not meat eaters. How many of us have the teeth or nails to rip an animal apart and eat it? Plus, our intestines are too long to eat meat and that causes problems. 

Just because Jehovah allowed us to eat animals doesn’t mean we are supposed to. I believe Jehovah did it because he already knew that not all humans would be able to grow food to eat. Because there used to be a “water canopy” over the earth, there’s a possibility that the former world was tropical, ideal for growing food. Some areas of the world are so cold that people can’t grow food to eat. They must eat animals. If eating meat were optimal, then meat wouldn’t greatly contribute to the risk of heart disease, cancer, diabetes and hypertension. In fact, studies show that animal fats greatly contribute to, and in many cases are the cause of type 2 diabetes. 

 

In my experience I have found that people are quick to believe that a vegan diet isn’t optimal because they don’t won’t to adopt that lifestyle. They will believe misinformation and argue you down. Those scientific papers are probably funded by the food companies that produce the food in question. I can find scientific research that suggests the opposite. There’s also scientific papers supporting the belief in evolution. 

 

Thanks for for the information but I really don’t want to talk about this anymore. Have a nice day 

[Qapla]

I am not against anyone deciding to eat fruitarian, vegan, vegetarian, omnivorous or some other combination of the foods we have available on the earth today.

 

What a person eats is a personal choice. Each of us decides what we put into our mouth.

 

My difficulty comes when expressions are used like saying any diet is "lethal" or "wrong" or that "this is the way we will eat in the New System". It is not up to us to tell anyone that their diet is wrong ... regardless of what that diet consists of (as long as that diet does not include blood). 

 

Like was mentioned in another thread " . . .14 Peter said: “Not at all, Lord, because I have never eaten anything defiled and unclean.” 15 And the voice spoke again to him, the second time: “Stop calling defiled the things God has cleansed.” (Acts 10:14, 15)

 

It is not up to us to tell those who eat meat that it is wrong, murder, unethical, non-nutritious, poisonous, detrimental or anything like this - after all, it was Jehovah that gave us the meat to eat ... are we saying, in essence, "Jehovah, you don't know what you are talking about - we can't eat meat - it is wrong - man wasn't designed to eat meat". After all, if it was detrimental for us to eat meat, would He have given it to us in the first place? 

 

The same holds true for those who eat meat. For us to say that those who choose to abstain from meat are wrong would be like telling Jehovah that he actually DID deprive Adam and Eve of something in the garden.

 

Another aspect we need to be careful of is being dogmatic about mankind's diet in the past and the future. Since there are no actual written records of life before the flood of Noah's day we cannot say for 100% certain that mankind was vegetarian before the flood. There is nothing in the Bible that says man did or did not eat meat prior to the flood. The instructions that were given to Noah after coming out of the ark could have been the first time man ate meat - or, it could have been Jehovah giving clear instructions about how meat should be prepared before being eaten. We cannot say that Adam and Eve never ate meat. We do not know what they ate when they left the garden. After all, Able was a shepherd and made burnt offerings of the sheep - which shows that he killed some of the sheep and that they used fire ... and even put meat on the fire. 

 

Likewise, there is nothing in the Bible that says we will not eat meat in the New System - nor does it say that we will ... the thing is, we just do not know ... so, we should refrain from making statements like "Just because we we will be vegan in the new world ..." because we do not know if that is correct - it is not in the Bible.

 

I hope this thread goes back to a discussion of what the OP wanted when he said , " I would like to meet more vegan or vegetarian brothers and sisters around the world" and away from the declarations that any particular diet is the "right" one - and that goes for those on both sides of the dietary spectrum.

[Memeber212]

3 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

 

B12 deficiency is not exclusive to vegetarians and vegans. A Tufts university study showed that 39% of 3,000 American men and women were B12 deficient, although most Americans eat meat. Vegetarians and vegans who don’t know any better tend to be deficient in B12 and Omega 3’s. That’s why I take a certified organic, vegan methylcobalamin B12 spray every day and eat 3 tablespoons of ground flax seed a day. Easy fix. Any vegetarian or vegan who develops mental problems is getting it because they are not getting enough natural fats. This is why I eat an avocado a day and flax seeds. Just because some vegans fail to do the research on what their body needs and suffer from it, doesn’t mean it’s not an optimal way to eat.

 

Jack, I respect your choice and I love you. Do not take it as personal attack. I am simply worried about your mum. You can do what you like of course. I just warned you about possible dangers. I don't know where you find those information but your citation has been manipulated. The study you mentioned (at least the one I managed to find) says this:

Quote

A careful look at 3,000 men and women in the ongoing Framingham Offspring Study found 39 percent with plasma B12 levels in the “low normal” range--below 258 picomoles per liter.

A low-normal is not deficient, it is still normal. So the book you used for that study is not honest. As I wrote earlier on, these days too many people benefit financially form books, diets, etc. and they do whatever it takes to earn some money. They won't hesitate to put your life at risk. Proverbs 14:15

 

[Naturale]

There are plenty of good sources of B12.  Fermented soya for example is a very good source so foods such as Tempeh.  Certain mushrooms too contain  B12 such as Shitake and Chanterelle.  Cereals,  certain seaweeds, yogurt, eggs etc.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Naturale

[EccentricM]

12 hours ago, Qapla said:

14 Peter said: “Not at all, Lord, because I have never eaten anything defiled and unclean.” 15 And the voice spoke again to him, the second time: “Stop calling defiled the things God has cleansed.” (Acts 10:14, 15)

I almost went vegetarian once, and it was for this very reason I decided not to.

 

My only reason I wanted to stop eating meat, is because I felt that killing and eating animals was morally wrong (being in the group of people who wouldn't mind us not eating meat and animals not dying like us in the New World, which is an entirely different topic), but then I felt that my reason to stop eating meat was invalid and almost disrespectful to Jehovah, as I felt that by saying "I won't eat, it's wrong to kill animals for food" as taking some sort of "superior moral high ground" to Jehovah himself. And as such, I continue to eat meat (I do enjoy eating it) for my personal "moral and spiritual" reasons, in that I have no other grounds for not doing so, unless I want to actually make the statement that I think Jehovah is wrong.

 

I know we are not "forced" to eat meat, and it's a choice, but my only reason "not" to, would "for me" be a wrong one. I however don't view other vegetarians or vegans in such a manner (as there are many reasons people choose such), this is just a "personal" thing.

Edited May 20, 2019 by EccentricM

[Naturale]

Jehovah didn't make eating meat compulsory.  He gave us the option to do so if we want to.  The ancient Hebrews didn't eat much meat at all, only on special occasions.  It doesn't mean that all of them did either.  

[Memeber212]

15 hours ago, Qapla said:

My difficulty comes when expressions are used like saying any diet is "lethal" or "wrong" or that "this is the way we will eat in the New System". It is not up to us to tell anyone that their diet is wrong ... regardless of what that diet consists of (as long as that diet does not include blood). 

 

John, I simply warned him. What would you say if I announce that I eat nothing but chocolate? It is your duty to warn a fellow brother that it is risky. Unitarianism causes serious health problems, starting with diabetes.

[McKay]

1 hour ago, Naturale said:

Jehovah didn't make eating meat compulsory.  He gave us the option to do so if we want to.  The ancient Hebrews didn't eat much meat at all, only on special occasions.  It doesn't mean that all of them did either.  

No, but it's interesting to consider why he made the change. What changed after the flood that caused Jehovah to give man the option to eat flesh? Was it simply because Jehovah knew that the climate would not have been able to provide an evenly distributed system of plant life to sustain people living in extreme climates? Did the collapse of the canopy allow more harmful radiation that either a) weakened our ability to draw our nutrients from vegetation alone, or b) weaken the plants ability to contain nutrients? All unknowns. But the mere fact that Jehovah suddenly made this drastic change to our diet speaks to the possibility that it COULD be a necessity for the present.

[Thesauron]

No, but it's interesting to consider why he made the change. What changed after the flood that caused Jehovah to give man the option to eat flesh? Was it simply because Jehovah knew that the climate would not have been able to provide an evenly distributed system of plant life to sustain people living in extreme climates? Did the collapse of the canopy allow more harmful radiation that either a) weakened our ability to draw our nutrients from vegetation alone, or weaken the plants ability to contain nutrients? All unknowns. But the mere fact that Jehovah suddenly made this drastic change to our diet speaks to the possibility that it COULD be a necessity for the present.

The idea of a canopy seems hard to kill.

Anyway, it’s also possible that Jehovah saw that men wanted to eat meat, and that it might not be very harmful, but perhaps even beneficial for them. Either way, our diet has allowed us to settle larger parts of the earth. We’ve seen civilisations with diets consisting mostly or solely on meat.

[Old]

24 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

The idea of a canopy seems hard to kill.  [ !]

Anyway, it’s also possible that Jehovah saw that men wanted to eat meat, and that it might not be very harmful, but perhaps even beneficial for them. Either way, our diet has allowed us to settle larger parts of the earth. We’ve seen civilisations with diets consisting mostly or solely on meat.

Jehovah in his great wisdom created an animal food chain that placed dependence on animal protein for survival. Little fish eat tiniest fish and in turn is eaten by a seagull or a bigger fish.

At the beginning level the chain of protein consumption starts with an animal or microoranism that consumes vegetation, the scripture says: “…to everything moving on the earth in which there is life, I have given all green vegetation for food….” . Is this a blanket statement showing that the food chain has a foundation of vegetation? There would have been no way to explain the complexity of the food chain to Moses.

This would be even harder to give a one size fits all description when it comes to  the very bottom of the food chain in the seas, some animals and some plants become very hard to differentiate, some appearing as an animal for a generation and the next generation they give evidence of being vegetation.

Any boundaries we set as to who ate what and why is mostly an expression of our prejudices. The only thing that cannot be interpreted according to our personal predjudice is "...and God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good."

 

 

[Thesauron]

Jehovah in his great wisdom created an animal food chain that placed dependence on animal protein for survival. Little fish eat tiniest fish and in turn is eaten by a seagull or a bigger fish.
At the beginning level the chain of protein consumption starts with an animal or microoranism that consumes vegetation, the scripture says: “…to everything moving on the earth in which there is life, I have given all green vegetation for food….” . Is this a blanket statement showing that the food chain has a foundation of vegetation? There would have been no way to explain the complexity of the food chain to Moses.
This would be even harder to give a one size fits all description when it comes to  the very bottom of the food chain in the seas, some animals and some plants become very hard to differentiate, some appearing as an animal for a generation and the next generation they give evidence of being vegetation.
Any boundaries we set as to who ate what and why is mostly an expression of our prejudices. The only thing that cannot be interpreted according to our personal predjudice is "...and God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good."
 
 

Are we allowed to eat mushrooms? They are neither plants nor animals...

[Qapla]

31 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Are we allowed to eat mushrooms?

 

I guess that depends on the mushroom ... there are some you will only eat once

 

Some are good - some have hallucinogenics - some are lethal