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Vegan and vegetarian brothers and sisters


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4 hours ago, Saffron said:

Hopefully you'll update us after a bit. 😉

I’m not doing it until my 33rd birthday, October 8th. Right now I’m enjoying food from vegan restaurants. There’s two in particular that I want to enjoy a few things from their menus before I go raw. But I’m determined to do it in October. I doubt I’ll change my mind. I doubt I’ll eat raw vegetables. Most vegetables are almost impossible to digest raw because they contain cellulose and it’s hard to digest raw. Carrots are a prime example. Cooking them destroys a lot of the nutrients. Also, cooking carbohydrates releases carcinogens that cause cancer. 

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7 hours ago, Naturale said:

I am astounded that someone would say it is against the divine purpose to be vegetarian since originally God did not include meat as part of the human diet and it was only through  disobedience that  mankind lost their perfect life in paradise where there was the perfect non-meat diet available.  Jehovah gave permission for eating certain types of meat after the flood and no doubt right after the flood there wouldn't have been much other foods, veg or fruits about for some time.  It wasn't compulsory and the diet of Gods people didn't include much meat at all.

 

It is an individual personal matter whether we choose to eat meat or not.  Personally I do better without it :)

My biggest complaint with vegans are those who do it for ethical reasons. If someone wants to refrain from meat for health/preference issues, then fine. But if it's because they're worried about the animal's feelings? I don't think that person is viewing animals the way Jehovah does. They are, in fact, elevating animals above their created role (bring enjoyment to man, which for now Includes eating). Remember, we serve the God who told priests to snip a pigeon's neck and spatter its blood on an altar. The scriptures don't say Jehovah was worried about the animal's feelings! Ethical issues related to eating meat are intrinsically tied to evolution.

 

 

But if veggies just make you feel better or your doctor tells you to, go forth and be happy! But don't let sentimentality distract you from keeping Jehovah's view of matters.

 

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32 minutes ago, Brother Jack said:

doubt I’ll eat raw vegetables. Most vegetables are almost impossible to digest raw because they contain cellulose and it’s hard to digest raw. Carrots are a prime example. Cooking them destroys a lot of the nutrients. Also, cooking

What's left? Just fruit? Also as far as vegetables go, would juicing them change anything?

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1 hour ago, Saffron said:

What's left? Just fruit? Also as far as vegetables go, would juicing them change anything?

We’ll I won’t say what everyone should eat but when I grow raw I will eat only fruit and maybe some greens after doing research... Which is fine by me since I don’t like most vegetables and the few that I do like I like cooked. No, I doubt juicing them will make them more digestible. If chewing them until they are mush won’t do it, I doubt juicing it will. But I may be wrong. I would have to do some research. I doubt a machine could make food into something better than the body could. Also, juicing removes beneficial fiber. I do enjoy smoothies though with fruit, though. You get all of the fruit without removing the fibers.

 

Since they are so hard to digest and need to be cooked, it could be that root vegetables like potatoes and carrots are intended for animals that burrow and not for humans. My mom told be that a few times and I wasn’t sure if I agreed but now it makes so much sense. Remember that animals were on the earth before humans and they had to eat something. No living creature on the earth cooks it’s food besides humans. 

 

I am not anti cooked food however. I enjoy eating cooked food, more than eating fresh fruit. I hope we can enjoy it in the new world. But I do think there is a chance we won’t. 

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8 hours ago, Naturale said:

It is an individual personal matter whether we choose to eat meat or not

My body type does better being a meat eater. Not a lot - just some. Most eat way too much meat.

An active human can only use 4 oz of cooked meat a day - not 8, not 12 not 16 oz. Thus those huge steak dinners are not good for you.

 

I do like veggie stir fry with chick pea, lentils, Onion, rice, broccoli , etc.

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30 minutes ago, 1gemstone said:

What kind of fruit?

All fruits except mangos, papayas and grapefruit. I hate those. I guess I can also include tomatoes in that group too since they are also technically a fruit. I don’t like them unless it’s on a hamburger, in a burrito or some other type of cooked food. At one point I was eating raw Roma tomatoes for the nutritional value but I had to stop because I just couldn’t do it anymore. 

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One thing I learned when I became vegetarian and vegan is that you have to unlearn a lot of the misinformation you’ve been told all of your life about nutrition and health because most Americans eat the “SAD” diet, standard American diet. All my life I was told that you need to drink 8 glasses of water a day. When I became vegetarian and especially after I became vegan, I quickly learned that that is not necessarily true. It may be true if you eat the standard American diet because it takes so much water to aid in the digestion of meat. It appears humans were designed to get most of their water from fruit. That’s why the water content is so high in fruit. It makes sense that if the human body is mostly made up of water that our food would also be mostly made up of water. 

A humans tongue is not designed to lap up water like a dog, but to get water from food. When I ate more fruit I found that my desire to drink so much water went away   Because I was already getting it from the food I ate.

 

They also tell you that it’s normal for your blood pressure to rise as you get older. That’s not true. Studies show that people who have a plant based diet see their blood pressure numbers lower as they get older. Also it’s normal for people eating a fresh plant based diet to have blood pressure readings lower than what is considered perfect blood pressure. Higher blood pressure coming with age is only true with people who are eating a standard American diet. 

 

Another one is that milk is good for you and good for your bones. While there is some nutritional value in milk, milk is actually terrible for your bones. It doesn’t give you calcium. Instead, it leaches calcium from your bones. Studies show that there’s a huge link between milk consumption and osteoporosis. Many people who develop osteoporosis drink milk. Of course there are studies that show that the opposite is true, but usually those studies are funded by the diary industry just like the tobacco industry paid “doctors” to say that tobacco smoke doesn’t cause cancer. 

 

You also subconsciously began to believe that meat is the primary source for protein. While meat does contain protein, it actually contains too much protein that the body doesn’t need. Extra protein gets stored as fat and getting too much protein can pollute the blood and cause kidney problems. Fresh plants/fruits contain the right amount of protein the body needs. Not only for humans but also for huge animals that don’t eat meat. 

Animals like elephants, Gorillas, rhinos, hippos, bison, wildebeest, deer, manatee and horses don’t eat any meat and yet are able to grow to be such big, strong and agile creatures. 

 

People are also taught that too much sugar from fruit is bad. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Fructose, the natural sugar in fruit is ideal for the body. It’s the processed sugar found in deserts, soda and candy that you should worry about.

 

One last east thing that comes to mind is the notion that eating a big meal makes you sleepy. This is not true with a fresh plant based diet. Eating meat, complex carbs or high calorie foods make you sleepy because it takes so much energy to digest them. Fruit is very low calorie and even if you eat a lot of them it’s very hard to get too many calories from fruit and it won’t make you sleepy or tired. Food is supposed to energize you, not make you sleepy. I’ve never gotten sleepy from eating fruit but my grandmothers soul food on the other hand knocks me out :upsidedown: 

In fact, this is one of the reasons why meat eaters live shorter lives. It takes so much energy from the body. Even animals that eat meat sleep longer and live shorter lives that those who don’t. 

 

Anyway, I’m not trying to impose my views on others. I just wanted to share these things I’ve learned on my journey :)

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1 hour ago, Brother Jack said:

All fruits except mangos, papayas and grapefruit. I hate those. I guess I can also include tomatoes in that group too since they are also technically a fruit. I don’t like them unless it’s on a hamburger, in a burrito or some other type of cooked food. At one point I was eating raw Roma tomatoes for the nutritional value but I had to stop because I just couldn’t do it anymore. 

I did not know any tomatoes were raw, tell me how do know that they are raw, and how do you cook them?

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13 minutes ago, 1gemstone said:

I did not know any tomatoes were raw, tell me how do know that they are raw, and how do you cook them?

When I say raw I mean to eat them as if you just picked them from the vine and ate them. Of course you can cut or slice them and it won’t take away from its raw nature.  There’s different ways to cook them. You can grill, marinate, fry or heat them on skewers. Just think of the foods like pizza and burritos that have cooked tomatoes.

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I'm vegetarian and have been for the last 20 years or so...I actually don't like meat, I find it repulsive when I get it in my mouth and I heave. 

 

Secondly I don't agree with the intensive farming that meat is produced under,  this isn't elevating animals... many animals are fed antibiotics and hormones in feed as routine, I prefer to not digest that kind of thing. 

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11 hours ago, Duplo said:

My biggest complaint with vegans are those who do it for ethical reasons. If someone wants to refrain from meat for health/preference issues, then fine. But if it's because they're worried about the animal's feelings? I don't think that person is viewing animals the way Jehovah does. They are, in fact, elevating animals above their created role (bring enjoyment to man, which for now Includes eating). Remember, we serve the God who told priests to snip a pigeon's neck and spatter its blood on an altar. The scriptures don't say Jehovah was worried about the animal's feelings! Ethical issues related to eating meat are intrinsically tied to evolution.

 

 

But if veggies just make you feel better or your doctor tells you to, go forth and be happy! But don't let sentimentality distract you from keeping Jehovah's view of matters.

 

Whilst you are correct that we should not elevate animals above humans.. but that does not mean Jehovah has 'no' concern for animals at all. The Law did specify things for animals that doe show concern for them and reflect Jehovah's view on their welfare.

 

in fact that same law/principle was used by Paul when referring to elders.

 

*** it-2 pp. 454-455 Muzzle ***
. The Mosaic Law commanded: “You must not muzzle a bull while it is threshing.” (De 25:4) Thus it was not tortured with a desire to eat some of the grain that it was expending its strength to thresh.—Compare Pr 12:10.
The principle involved at Deuteronomy 25:4 can also be applied to human laborers. Paul told Timothy: “Let the older men who preside in a fine way be reckoned worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching.” Then, confirming his counsel, the apostle quoted the law about not muzzling a bull when it is threshing grain. 
 

also here to: *** w06 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
What can we learn from the prohibition found at Exodus 23:19: “You must not boil a kid in its mother’s milk”?
This directive of the Mosaic Law, which appears three times in the Bible, can help us appreciate Jehovah’s sense of propriety, his compassion, and his tenderness. It also highlights his abhorrence of false worship.—Exodus 34:26; Deuteronomy 14:21.
To boil a young goat or other animal in its mother’s milk would be contrary to Jehovah’s natural arrangement of things. God provided the mother’s milk to nourish the kid and help it grow. Cooking the kid in the milk of its own mother would, in the words of one scholar, display “a contempt of the relation which God has established and sanctified between parent and young.”
Further, some suggest that boiling a kid in its mother’s milk may have been a pagan ritual performed to produce rain. If that was the case, the prohibition would have served to protect the Israelites from the senseless and heartless religious practices of the nations surrounding them. The Mosaic Law specifically forbade the Israelites to walk in the statutes of those nations.—Leviticus 20:23.
Finally, we see in this particular law Jehovah’s tender compassion. Actually, the Law contained a number of similar injunctions against cruelty to animals and safeguards against working contrary to the natural order of things. For instance, the Law included commands that prohibited sacrificing an animal unless it had been with its mother for at least seven days, slaughtering both an animal and its offspring on the same day, and taking from a nest both a mother and her eggs or offspring.—Leviticus 22:27, 28; Deuteronomy 22:6, 7.
Clearly, the Law was not just a complex set of commands and prohibitions. Among other things, its principles help instill in us an elevated moral sensibility that truly reflects Jehovah’s marvelous qualities.—Psalm 19:7-11.

 

 

We have to avoid all forms of extremism.. whether is is food, or hobbies, leisure. (you name it) The issues with unbalanced personal feelings, is that they often impinge on the rights of others too. Meat eaters justifying their position and Vegans, theirs.

 

Mostly we can leave others to their own personal choices and we can keep our opinions to ourselves. information on things is great.. it gives us choice.. but crossing the line over to advising or making implications to one or the other side, is another matter.  When conscience is involved no one likes to be told what to do when it is not other's concerns.


Edited by Alan

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2 hours ago, Alan said:

Whilst you are correct that we should not elevate animals above humans.. but that does not mean Jehovah has 'no' concern for animals at all. The Law did specify things for animals that doe show concern for them and reflect Jehovah's view on their welfare.

 

in fact that same law/principle was used by Paul when referring to elders.

 

*** it-2 pp. 454-455 Muzzle ***
. The Mosaic Law commanded: “You must not muzzle a bull while it is threshing.” (De 25:4) Thus it was not tortured with a desire to eat some of the grain that it was expending its strength to thresh.—Compare Pr 12:10.
The principle involved at Deuteronomy 25:4 can also be applied to human laborers. Paul told Timothy: “Let the older men who preside in a fine way be reckoned worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching.” Then, confirming his counsel, the apostle quoted the law about not muzzling a bull when it is threshing grain. 
 

also here to: *** w06 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
What can we learn from the prohibition found at Exodus 23:19: “You must not boil a kid in its mother’s milk”?
This directive of the Mosaic Law, which appears three times in the Bible, can help us appreciate Jehovah’s sense of propriety, his compassion, and his tenderness. It also highlights his abhorrence of false worship.—Exodus 34:26; Deuteronomy 14:21.
To boil a young goat or other animal in its mother’s milk would be contrary to Jehovah’s natural arrangement of things. God provided the mother’s milk to nourish the kid and help it grow. Cooking the kid in the milk of its own mother would, in the words of one scholar, display “a contempt of the relation which God has established and sanctified between parent and young.”
Further, some suggest that boiling a kid in its mother’s milk may have been a pagan ritual performed to produce rain. If that was the case, the prohibition would have served to protect the Israelites from the senseless and heartless religious practices of the nations surrounding them. The Mosaic Law specifically forbade the Israelites to walk in the statutes of those nations.—Leviticus 20:23.
Finally, we see in this particular law Jehovah’s tender compassion. Actually, the Law contained a number of similar injunctions against cruelty to animals and safeguards against working contrary to the natural order of things. For instance, the Law included commands that prohibited sacrificing an animal unless it had been with its mother for at least seven days, slaughtering both an animal and its offspring on the same day, and taking from a nest both a mother and her eggs or offspring.—Leviticus 22:27, 28; Deuteronomy 22:6, 7.
Clearly, the Law was not just a complex set of commands and prohibitions. Among other things, its principles help instill in us an elevated moral sensibility that truly reflects Jehovah’s marvelous qualities.—Psalm 19:7-11.

 

 

We have to avoid all forms of extremism.. whether is is food, or hobbies, leisure. (you name it) The issues with unbalanced personal feelings, is that they often impinge on the rights of others too. Meat eaters justifying their position and Vegans, theirs.

 

Mostly we can leave others to their own personal choices and we can keep our opinions to ourselves. information on things is great.. it gives us choice.. but crossing the line over to advising or making implications to one or the other side, is another matter.  When conscience is involved no one likes to be told what to do when it is not other's concerns.

No doubt! I certainly wasn't saying that Jehovah doesn't care how we treat animals. I'm saying that the notion often touted by those opposed to using animals for anything -- Animals Are People, Too, is one popular slogan -- is not in line with His view on animals.

 

To wit, from the Vegan Society's website itself:

"Although the vegan diet was defined early on it was as late as 1949 before Leslie J Cross pointed out that the society lacked a definition of veganism and he suggested “[t]he principle of the emancipation of animals from exploitation by man”. This is later clarified as “to seek an end to the use of animals by man for food, commodities, work, hunting, vivisection, and by all other uses involving exploitation of animal life by man”.

 

This way of thinking runs contrary to Jehovah's provision in Genesis, and in fact, His provision of clothing for Adam and Eve. It's interesting to me that while the concept of not eating flesh goes back to the ancient Greeks (Pythagoras promoted benevolence between all species), it was also touted by Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism, all of whom believed that humans should not inflict pain on animals. Interestingly, when these views first starting coming into form (around 500 BCE), Jews were still offering animal sacrifices at the temple. Wouldn't it have been a challenge to keep Jehovah's law if these ideas took root and became widespread?

And like a lot of ideas that challenge Jehovah's view, veganism was officially defined or became popular until well into the Lord's Day, in 1944.

 

As I said earlier, if not eating meat or animal products is recommended for health reasons or because of individual taste, then go forth. But to believe that animals should not be used by humans for food or clothing, or that animals are equal to humans, or that animals exist for any other reason than for the enjoyment of humans? I don't think that's the correct view to hold.

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17 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

I’m not doing it until my 33rd birthday, October 8th. Right now I’m enjoying food from vegan restaurants. There’s two in particular that I want to enjoy a few things from their menus before I go raw. But I’m determined to do it in October. I doubt I’ll change my mind. I doubt I’ll eat raw vegetables. Most vegetables are almost impossible to digest raw because they contain cellulose and it’s hard to digest raw. Carrots are a prime example. Cooking them destroys a lot of the nutrients. Also, cooking carbohydrates releases carcinogens that cause cancer. 

But if you are not gong to eat raw veg then what are you going to eat raw?  It is important not to eat too much fruit as many fruits are hybridised and therefore contain too much sugar.  They are fine in normal amounts but not to live on.  Many fruits we have today were not in this hybridised form in the garden of eden.  When being a vegetarian the emphasis needs to be on vegetables.

 

I eat piles of raw things such as celery, chicory, lettuce, cucumber, broccoli, radicchio, raddish,  and I add fresh chopped herbs that I grow.  I feel alive and wonderful on that kind of food in large amounts and that is my dominant way of eating (always with some carbs)  I have some cooked food as well.  I may go a few days without raw.  I did do extreme raw eating some years ago and I would say from my experience that don't go extreme and don't cut out cooked food completely.

Carrots for example have benefits eaten raw but also other benefits when eaten cooked as the beta carotene in them is  more readily available when cooked.  

Certain mushrooms such as shitakes contain some amazing nutrients that support the immune system.  I often have those fried in butter with an egg for breakfast and toast.

Fermented beans such as in tempeh, natto  is good as without meat it is important find a way of getting your B12. Chanterelle mushrooms have it too.

Things like beans and lentils have to be cooked and need to be in a vegetarian diet.

 

 Balance is a good thing.

 

What you are saying about carbs and cancer is only when certain carbs are extremely overcooked and release acrylamide.  Normal cooking is not a problem. Despite what many people say these days healthy carbs are very important to include.  

 

Yes it is important to drink plenty of water a day regardless of what you eat.


Edited by Naturale
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Years ago, I lost about 100 lbs doing keto. I was a little obsessed over food and losing weight. And then at a regional convention, they played a paradise video and everyone was eating from this mountain of fruit. My reaction was, "Ugh. Too many carbs."

 

That's when I turned to my wife and said, "I think I have a problem."

 

So, yeah. Becoming unbalanced is easy.

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On 5/7/2019 at 8:46 AM, Naturale said:

But if you are not gong to eat raw veg then what are you going to eat raw?  It is important not to eat too much fruit as many fruits are hybridised and therefore contain too much sugar.  They are fine in normal amounts but not to live on.  Many fruits we have today were not in this hybridised form in the garden of eden.  When being a vegetarian the emphasis needs to be on vegetables.

 

I eat piles of raw things such as celery, chicory, lettuce, cucumber, broccoli, radicchio, raddish,  and I add fresh chopped herbs that I grow.  I feel alive and wonderful on that kind of food in large amounts and that is my dominant way of eating (always with some carbs)  I have some cooked food as well.  I may go a few days without raw.  I did do extreme raw eating some years ago and I would say from my experience that don't go extreme and don't cut out cooked food completely.

Carrots for example have benefits eaten raw but also other benefits when eaten cooked as the beta carotene in them is  more readily available when cooked.  

Certain mushrooms such as shitakes contain some amazing nutrients that support the immune system.  I often have those fried in butter with an egg for breakfast and toast.

Fermented beans such as in tempeh, natto  is good as without meat it is important find a way of getting your B12. Chanterelle mushrooms have it too.

Things like beans and lentils have to be cooked and need to be in a vegetarian diet.

 

 Balance is a good thing.

 

What you are saying about carbs and cancer is only when certain carbs are extremely overcooked and release acrylamide.  Normal cooking is not a problem. Despite what many people say these days healthy carbs are very important to include.  

 

Yes it is important to drink plenty of water a day regardless of what you eat.

I’m only going to eat raw fruit and flax seeds for omega 3. I would eat vegetables for the nutritional value but a lot of vegetables are very hard to digest unless you cook them. Cooking them destroys a lot of the nutrients. There’s no such thing as getting too much sugar from fruit. Natural fructose isn’t like processed sugar. You can’t get too much of it. It is essential to human cells. I personally know people who had type 2 diabetes that cured it by eating a plant based diet including plenty of fruit when they were told the sugar from fruit was a bad thing for them. Vegetables have sugar too. Fruit just has more of it. There’s a word for people who only eat only fruit. It’s called fruitarian. In my research I have found dozens of stories of people who have been fruitarians for decades and are thriving. Most of them look young for their age. They are healthy. 3 come to mind. There’s one guy who’s a fruitarian who runs 100 mile long marathons on a diet of only fruit. He also ran an ultra marathon in every state in the U.S. every day in a row. One older couple ran a marathon every day for a whole year. They too are fruitarians. I think running like that is a little crazy but I say this to say that you can eat nothing but fruit, nuts and seeds and be perfectly healthy. In my research I have found that while both fruit and vegetables are beneficial, fruit is more important to the human body. It contains plenty of water and is easily digestible in its raw form.

 

I don’t consider a raw vegan diet extreme if it’s more agreeable with your body. I’m not going to do this because I’m obsessed with health or have an extreme way of thinking. Im doing it because back in late 2012 I started taking a medication that causes weight gain. I gained 70 lbs in a short period of time. I am naturally athletic and previously never had a problem with my weight. I read about it online and people were saying it was impossible to lose weight on this particular medication. Going vegan caused me to lose 35 lbs but I’m still 35 lbs overweight. This medication is insane. I’ve never experienced anything like this before. Every time I eat cooked food I gain weight. I literally have to eat raw to lose weight because I’ve lost all I can lose on a regular vegan diet. As I’ve said before, I’m not anti cooked food. If it weren’t for this I would have no plans of going raw. I’m doing this for my health. I’m concerned with what carrying extra weight around will do to me long term.

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20 hours ago, Hope said:

All these raw eaters are gonna be sad smelling cake and bread and cookies and all the other food you can't make without cooking the ingredients...

 

No rice, either??? :( 

I can speak from experience that when you’ve been vegan or raw long enough, the smell of those foods make you sick. I was told by mom mom and others who are raw that when you first start it takes a while for the cravings for cooked food to go away, but then after a while you don’t even desire those foods anymore. 

That’s how I feel about meat and dairy. It took a short time for the desire to eat those foods to go away but now I don’t even think about them. Sometimes the smell of meat and dairy makes me sick.

 

I’m not saying nobody should eat foods like rice. I’ve just decided to go raw because it’s more beneficial for me.

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17 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

I’m not saying nobody should eat foods like rice. I’ve just decided to go raw because it’s more beneficial for me.

Brown rice and a variety of whole grains are so good though and support blood sugar.  We were designed to eat them and a whole variation of foods.  I'm not being negative you understand, it's just that I can't help feeling a bit concerned bro.   Despite what you say fruits are high in sugar which is fine in their place. Living on them though can result in nutrient and blood sugar imbalances and issues with insulin control as well as tooth decay.  Eating only fruit lacks vitamin D and things such as phosphorus, magnesium and calcium.  There is only minimal fat in fruit which is necessary for heart, brain, hormones and enzymes.

 

A largely plant based way of eating is healthy and includes whole grains, tubers, vegetables,eggs, legumes and fruits.  This lifestyle reduces the risk of diabetes, obesity, heart disease and cancer.  It improves mental state and fights chronic disease.  Consuming a wide variety of foods eliminates chances of developing deficiencies and creates the foundation for balance.


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