El Paso, TX and Dayton, OH Mass Shootings (combined)

[Margaret]

1 hour ago, cricket246 said:

Has it been confirmed that any JW's were killed and how do we know?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/04/opinion/el-paso-shooting.html

[ChocoBro]

11 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

Capital of Satan’s world??maybe that’s a thought best left at the wayside.

He has a point. As the world power (Russia is not a world power but an antagonist of the world power) the USA is a key player in the system of the Wild Beast. The United Nations is in New York, another reason to call it the capital of Satan's world. This kind of descriptive terminology also isn't unbiblical, compare Revelation 2:13. It would possibly be tactless to use this description in front of non-Witnesses but we as Jehovah's people should certainly not become offended at such a statement since Christians are "no part of this world"

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

I live in El Paso, TX. So i was about 5min away from yesterdays Mass shooting at the Wal-Mart!!!
...
The 2 Jehovah's Witnesses who were shot dead, are name Andre Anchondo and Jordan Anchondo. They were a young couple, who had 3 children...

That is so sad.

My heart hurts.

Just Older

[New World Explorer]

3 hours ago, Enoch said:

I live in El Paso, TX. So i was about 5min away from yesterdays Mass shooting at the Wal-Mart!!! We had just finished service between 10:30 and 11:00. But i had no idea that a Mass Shooting was going on!!!!😕 So for your brothers information, we had 2 Jehovah's Witnesses shot dead at that Wal-Mart!😳 I had just seen them both last week, because they go to my father's hall where he's an Elder there. The 2 Jehovah's Witnesses who were shot dead, are name Andre Anchondo and Jordan Anchondo. They were a young couple, who had 3 children. A 6 yr old, a 2 yr old, and a 2 month old baby. Actually, the mom Jordan, died with her 2 month old baby in her arms, while the shooter pointed the gun to her head to shoot her, Jordan covered or shield her baby to save her, then dropped dead on her 2 month old baby. The baby survived, but with broken bones, cause of the weight of her mom Jordan falling on her. The father, Andre Anchondo, got shot very ugly, according to what we were told. They both attend my father's Congregation called 'Eastwood'. In my hall, Jordans Anchondos aunt attends with us. Today she looked very devastated!!!😳 We are now awaiting for funeral arrangements from the Body of Elders at my fathers Congregation.

I am speachless, and reading this with tears.... so much injustice in t his Satan's system.

[Bek]

10 hours ago, Your Brother said:

Hmmm, facts? What fact do you base this on? Or is it actually an opinion?

 

I know the only biblical fact says Satan rules the world. It does not say he resides in a certain place. But based on "facts" you might say he moves around. Maybe he was set up in Germany in the forties, Spent some time in Japan also. Jumped over to Russia after WW2, moved to China/Asia for a time. Might also be in North Korea right now. I also know he had a powerful demon in Iran (prince of Persia) for a while. What role does the King of the North play? Does that mean he resides with that nation(s). I thought actually the UN leads the charge against us so maybe he does hang out in New York city.   

 

Surprising to me that we have not learned to present opinions as facts.

 

No offense intended. 

Which country is ruling the world today? It is the US. Which country founded the UN and is providing the bulk of its funds? It is the US. Which country is the world's top weapons maker and exporter? It is the US. Which country today has been at war for 93 per cent of its existence? it is the US. Which country has been promoting and profiting from the sexual revolution it started in the form of porn, free love, homosexuals, same-sex marriage etc? it is the US. Which country has been spreading environmentally destructive greed-driven consumerist and capitalist system around the world? It is the US. Which country is the most racist one in the world and is spreading its white supremacism around the world today? It is the US. The list just goes on. These are the facts that come to my mind off the cuff. 

 

Satan is ruling the world and he is doing so through the most powerful country on earth. It is logical and practical to think that Satan would use the cultural, political, financial, technological and economic infrastructure that the US has built up over the years to spread his evil. It is very likely that he will also use the US to build a coalition of nations at Armageddon. 

 

If you take the big messy issues of today and analyse them, you will learn that it is often the US and its colonial mother who are to blame. 

 

If after reading this you feel a bit angry or irritated, then you need to re-examine your values. As Christians, we need to be neutral "foreigners and temporary residents" in this world without any patriotic attachment to a country. 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Hun

[carlos]

2 hours ago, Hun said:

If after reading this you feel a bit angry or irritated, then you need to re-examine your values. As Christians, we need to be neutral "foreigners and temporary residents" in this world without any patriotic attachment to a country. 

I would say the whole of Satan's world is under his control. No doubt the US has a huge influence on the word, politically, culturally and in many other senses. So do other influential nations in other areas of the earth. No nation is worse or better than the rest, they are only more or less powerful.

 

Probably there's not much profit to be obtained from going on with that approach, even if its partly true.

[JennyM]

3 hours ago, Hun said:

Satan is ruling the world and he is doing so through the most powerful country on earth. It is logical and practical to think that Satan would use the cultural, political, financial, technological and economic infrastructure that the US has built up over the years to spread his evil. It is very likely that he will also use the US to build a coalition of nations at Armageddon.

Most probably, 

Revelation 2: 13 

‘I know where you are dwelling, that is, where the throne of Satan is; and yet you keep holding fast to my name,+ and you did not deny your faith in me+ even in the days of Anʹti·pas, my faithful witness,+ who was killed+ by your side, where Satan is dwelling.  

[Bek]

21 minutes ago, carlos said:

I would say the whole of Satan's world is under his control. No doubt the US has a huge influence on the word, politically, culturally and in many other senses. So do other influential nations in other areas of the earth. No nation is worse or better than the rest, they are only more or less powerful.

 

Probably there's not much profit to be obtained from going on with that approach, even if its partly true.

No, I did not mean that the US is worse or more evil than any other country. That is not the point. All countries are part of the wicked world, but the US, as the most powerful, is just a convenient tool for Satan's rule. It just happens to be at the top of the political food chain so to speak in these last days. I would have said the same if it was any other country.  

 

4 minutes ago, JennyM said:

Most probably, 

Revelation 2: 13 

‘I know where you are dwelling, that is, where the throne of Satan is; and yet you keep holding fast to my name,+ and you did not deny your faith in me+ even in the days of Anʹti·pas, my faithful witness,+ who was killed+ by your side, where Satan is dwelling.  

"The throne of Satan" and "Satan's dwelling". Interesting thoughts. As king of this world, Satan should have a throne and a palace somewhere. Where else if not in the world's capital, New York, symbolically speaking. 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Hun

[JennyM]

6 minutes ago, Hun said:

"The throne of Satan" and "Satan's dwelling". Interesting thoughts. As king of this world, Satan should have a throne and a palace somewhere. Where else if not in the world's capital, New York, symbolically speaking. ...

Well, I don't know what to say... At least, in US Jehovah's people were free.. Unlike in China and in the Soviet for many years.  

But they really  promote violence through movies, gun laws, joining war...

 

I don't know if its true but only in the US that many family members kill one another for insurance.. I live in less developed country but its rare here. 

[Pjdriver]

What does that even mean? 

I’m not sure we can compare Satan’s  “HQ” to the way we view human organizations. Does he have an specific address? Does he have an office set up with a staff of demons working in cubicles? Maybe he has a home in a NY suburb. Spirits do not need a special physical residence.  

Rev. 2:13 ‘I know where you are dwelling, that is, where the throne of Satan is; and yet you keep holding fast to my name. 

If we take that literally, then the throne of Satan is in Pergamum (Greece). I believe this is just a way of expressing figuratively  how bad things were in Pergamum at the time. Does a spirit literally  “sit” on a chair.....even a fancy one?    

 

Would a Spirit have to be concerned  about travel time to get to work  ......so he has to move closer to his work? 

He was misleading the world back in Jesus day  even when he still had access to heaven. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Pjdriver

[Shawnster]

Getting off topic with Satan's throne abd his capital.  Let's get back on topic now 

[runner92]

There is a large wave of white supremacist extremism being exposed in the US as well that people over here don't want to talk ahout even though they know. I know for a fact I live near a town filled with them. If you look at the background of most of these shooters (including the this shooting and the one in El Paso) they have that rhetoric on their social media accounts and have openly spoken about performing acts of violence on specific groups. The media likes to ignore that though and go for the mental health angle. I really don't think it's mental health. These are people that have become radicalized and are acting out due to it. 

 

Sometimes I do get scared to leave the house and scared to go to work. But I can't let that fear control me. I just watch my surroundings closer now, and always remember the hope we have and to rely on Jehovah. That's all I can do to remain calm. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by runner92

[Loopy]

2 more victims have died from this callous act.

 

https://abc13.com/el-paso-death-toll-rises-to-21/5443945/?ex_cid=SND_KTRK_FB&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&fbclid=IwAR0AXxMVsIAywkvBo3EkEZZNu_MHenJ5I76XyIpXew4CR2-LI-tNsoOKXhU

 

EL PASO, Texas -- Two more people have died from a shooting over the weekend at a Texas Walmart, bringing the death toll to 22.
 

The El Paso police department announced that the person died at the hospital on Monday morning.

Shortly after, a representative from Del Sol Medical Center told ABC News that another person had died.

The shooting at a crowded El Paso department store will be handled as a domestic terrorism case, federal authorities said as they weighed hate-crime charges against the suspected gunman that could carry the death penalty.

 

Twenty-six people, including two children, were wounded, most of them taken to nearby hospitals with varying degrees of injuries, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott initially said. The victims' identities have not been released.

Three Mexican nationals are among the dead and another six among the injured, Mexican officials said late Saturday. No first responders were among those killed or injured.

At 10:39 a.m., police received a 911 call about an active shooter scene near the Cielo Vista Mall, which is near Interstate 10 on the east side of the city. It took six minutes from the time the first 911 call was placed until officers arrived on the scene.

 

[BenJepthah]

18 hours ago, Old said:

This is a little confusing because the accepted definition of carrying a firearm is to keep it on your person, either concealed which usually requires a permit or open carry which is accepted in many states with no special qualifications.  Such weapons are seldom used to provide food for the family, or as protection against potentially dangerous animals except in snake country. 

Euthanize animals struck by vehicals? Rare, I have used a rifle to euthanize a horse that had a compound fracture due to it's leg slipping through a cattle guard; one event in 60 years.

I am glad you were able to walk the white tail off the interstate, a very rare oportunity.

I have no firearms at this time having given away my rifles and my last remaining pistol. I have no wish to have a firearm for personal defense.

Hence my specific mention of the conditions in Alaska.

[BenJepthah]

18 hours ago, Old said:

This is a little confusing because the accepted definition of carrying a firearm is to keep it on your person, either concealed which usually requires a permit or open carry which is accepted in many states with no special qualifications.  Such weapons are seldom used to provide food for the family, or as protection against potentially dangerous animals except in snake country. 

Euthanize animals struck by vehicals? Rare, I have used a rifle to euthanize a horse that had a compound fracture due to it's leg slipping through a cattle guard; one event in 60 years.

I am glad you were able to walk the white tail off the interstate, a very rare oportunity.

I have no firearms at this time having given away my rifles and my last remaining pistol. I have no wish to have a firearm for personal defense.

As to euthanization in vehicle strikes. I haven’t had to hunt a deer in two years . My freezer is full mostly due to the two car struck deer I put in it last fall and this spring. One within less than 100 yards from my house. Things change. All of the above stated I’d personally destroy any firearms I had if I thought it would make the least difference. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by BenJepthah

[BenJepthah]

16 hours ago, Qapla said:

I'm not sure this shooting was done with a "handgun" ... so, even if handguns were banned, this shooting could still have happened.

 

 

 

OTOH ... there were many more people killed on US highways over the weekend than were killed in all these shooting combined

True. On both counts. And individual shootings are by far taking a larger toll than “ mass shootings “ , the city of Louisville Kentucky has had more homocides ( from all types of weapons) this year than all the “ mass shootings “ combined.  So even if both “ assault styled rifles” and handguns were banned it would just manifest in other violence as it has in many countries.  The ONLY solution is to change the person not the method. Jehovah’s Kingdom is THE answer.

[Shawnster]

With these two events happening within hours of each other, and the similar sentiments and reactions, I've combined these topics into one.

 

It is easy to make a blanket statement about stricter gun laws or removing guns would prevent such tragedies.  That's really a no-brainer.  If there were no guns, nobody would be shot.  Likewise, if there were no cars, there would be fewer people killed in auto accidents.  If there were no planes, there would be fewer people killed in plane crashes.

 

The reality of the situation is a little more complex.  It's not like guns in the United States are new.  There were plenty of guns and ease of access to these weapons in the past.  It's not like it was more difficult to get a gun in the 1970s or 80s than it is today.  Something else seems to be involved.  Something additional.  The Bible calls it a lack of love.  There feels or seems to have been a shift in the mental inclination of people since the Columbine school shooting.  It's like we've plummeted off a cliff.  Obviously it's something more than just the gun mentality of the United States because that gun mentality existed prior to Columbine.

 

When we comment on the legality of guns, we are making a political statement and violating our neutral stand.  Stating that "guns should be banned" or "when will the US create stricter gun laws or ban guns" is a political statement.  Any commentary on the legality of any issue is a lack of neutrality.  That's just a simple definition.  Commentary on the legality is not neutral.  Sure, we all have our opinions and it's difficult to keep neutral.  To illustrate this, substitute any other Biblical sin in place of gun and see if it sounds neutral.  Smoking should be banned.  Abortion should be banned.  Prostitution should be banned.  See?  Yes, the Kingdom will do away with smoking, abortion, and prostitution.  These are immoral choices.  As a Christian, though, we have no place commenting on the legality of these sins.  That's a political position.  We are neutral when it comes to laws.  

 

As also pointed out above, there are valid reasons for a Christian to own a gun.  No, the valid reason is not self-protection.  The use of a firearm against another human being would be a judicial matter.  However, plenty of Christians hunt and, even in the United States, there are regions where hunting provides the main source of protein for a Christian family.  Animals have been placed under our subjection so if a Christian wants or needs a gun to protect his livestock (or herself) from predatory animals, then they are within their scriptural rights to do so.  While we do not hunt for sport, Christians are not prohibited from hunting.  

 

Statistics are also politicized to support certain agendas.  These mass shootings are lumped in together in statistics with gang related shootings.  Now, in real life, those gang shootings do not feel like mass shootings, they aren't viewed by the community as a mass shooting, and they aren't pursued by the authorities like a mass shooting.  Yet, on paper, in a statistic, they are listed right there with all these other mass shootings.  Likewise school shootings.  A brother pointed out a few years ago that any shooting near a school was listed on a statistic record as a school shooting.  Some of these shootings were across the street from a school, or the school was not in session, or the school building was closed and no longer used, yet all of these were statistically recorded as a school shooting.  There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics.  

 

Ultimately the gun is a tool just like a flamethrower or a bomb.  The tool isn't responsible for their use.  It's wicked hearts and evil inclinations that have resulted in these mass shootings.  We know the Kingdom is the only permanent solution for these horrible acts

[BenJepthah]

7 hours ago, JennyM said:

 

I don't know if its true but only in the US that many family members kill one another for insurance.. I live in less developed country but its rare here. 

It’s not true in the IS either. It is. A media distortion.  Everything in the media ( TV, Movies, news) distorts. Some of the comments here reflect biases created from the acceptance of those distortions. 

    It has only become worse over time. I am old enough to look back half a century and see how it has changed. The gun issue is no different, it has become worse AND it is distorted by the media in various ways. 

    You are right to note that the US is both the source of bad and good conditions for Jehovah’s people and the world.  

[BenJepthah]

Context and perspective.  In 2018 , according to one source  with a rather loose definition of mass shootings, approximately 1800 people were killed. ( US) In the same time frame , 1818 people were bitten by venomous snakes (US) . Think about the number of times last year that anyone you know was treated for snakebite. Probably you didn’t know anyone personally. That is how it actually is living in the US. The vast majority of people will not even personally know anyone who is in one of these events. The media may make it seem otherwise.

[Hope]

i think i feel sad that being killed in a mass shooting is being compared with being killed by snakebite.  one situation is completely on purpose and actually preventable.  the other is an accident, usually in self-defense.  also preventable but at least that death is not truly intentional - since we're talking the difference between an intelligent (supposedly) human and a reptile.

 

to have them equalized seems sorta awful.  it doesn't matter if any of us "know anyone" in these events.  one of our brothers on this board knows two who were killed on Saturday - i'm not sure this is the most kind thing to say.

 

 

[BenJepthah]

56 minutes ago, Hope said:

i think i feel sad that being killed in a mass shooting is being compared with being killed by snakebite.  one situation is completely on purpose and actually preventable.  the other is an accident, usually in self-defense.  also preventable but at least that death is not truly intentional - since we're talking the difference between an intelligent (supposedly) human and a reptile.

 

to have them equalized seems sorta awful.  it doesn't matter if any of us "know anyone" in these events.  one of our brothers on this board knows two who were killed on Saturday - i'm not sure this is the most kind thing to say.

 

 

I’m not equalizing them at all. In fact snake bites are rarely fatal. What I am pointing out is that neither event is as common as we are made to feel that they are. And , while both are completely preventable , neither will be prevented in this system. So to live in morbid fear is simply unwarranted. We should weep with those who are weeping ( I too have lost a loved  to gun violence). We should not let exaggeration and distortion from Satan’s fear based system keep us in terror. And , again, Jehovah’s Kingdom is THE answer ( to both). 

      I’m glad you said ( supposedly). 

Edited August 5, 2019 by BenJepthah

[Lewis]

On 8/3/2019 at 6:08 PM, Tortuga said:

It seems that most of the recent shooters are 18-21 years old. Is that right?

You are right, the last three mass shootings the shooters were between 19 and 24 years of age.

[Tortuga]

On 8/4/2019 at 8:38 AM, Hun said:

These mass shootings are becoming the norm now. 

A newscaster said the shootings are becoming common but are not normal. I thought that was a very interesting statement. 

[Life4u]

Sad to say but seem to be more of us are and can be in the future victims of these shootings. This year as far as I know, last month or month before and this month 3 witnesses have died. The Virginia Beach shootings and El Paso. 

 

We see where we are in the time of the end and can never tell what might or might not befall us. Reading our Bibles daily is life/after life saving, along with our relationship with our heavenly Father Jehovah. It means our very lives. 

[BenJepthah]

1 hour ago, Life4u said:

Sad to say but seem to be more of us are and can be in the future victims of these shootings. This year as far as I know, last month or month before and this month 3 witnesses have died. The Virginia Beach shootings and El Paso. 

 

We see where we are in the time of the end and can never tell what might or might not befall us. Reading our Bibles daily is life/after life saving, along with our relationship with our heavenly Father Jehovah. It means our very lives. 

I couldn’t agree more. This year has had more mass shootings ( counting numbers not lethality) than days so far this year. Seems more like a sign  of the Times than anything else.