The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[BenJepthah]

11 minutes ago, Witness1970 said:

 

This is what I said. I understand that the government wants to save the economy.  Opening up the economy is going to cost more lives.

Will it? I work in a hospital. On a COVID unit effectively. All the measures that have been taken are justified as saving lives. But in the last month people who had chest pain didn’t visit the ER ? Why? COVID. People who felt a little off and got short of air didn’t visit the ER or their PCP thinking 🤔 t was probably just COVID with light symptoms but, it was early Cancer. People who were bored at home drank to much and now have hepatitis or cirrhosis. And people who are susceptible to COVID but have yet to be exposed are still just yet to be exposed. Why? Because it isn’t going away. It’s just a delay . No

lives have been saved . Some additional lives have been lost. And the rest have just been delayed. This in the US is a figure something like 5 people per million. 5 per million. But the number per million who are walking around with undetected and treatable cancer ??? Now on a global scale we see a massive Locust plague which could have been prevented by the global community is only the factories that make pesticide were open and the airplanes to spray were being flown and the ships to deliver were operating.  So soon starvation on a large to massive scale. So did the governments save lives or just shift which ones die? 

Edited June 9, 2020 by BenJepthah

[Bob]

14 minutes ago, Witness1970 said:

Opening up the economy is going to cost more lives.

So are you saying keeping the economy closed and keeping people on lockdown indefinitely will never cost lives?

Edited June 9, 2020 by Bob

[Dustparticle]

46 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

But history shows that if a government had to choose between people and money, they will choose money every time. 

When it comes down to politics, it comes before people too. Sickining!

[Loopy]

Well, Ross, it had to happen sometime. Yep, our county, “Alger” finally has its first confirmed case.

 

https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/content/news/First-positive-COVID-19-case-confirmed-in-Alger-County-571136381.html?fbclid=IwAR2rj32pg1TjE1SmVp61M3Wc4KoDUro7HgkmhUtBEzmSNrzRmW21_wFxuMU
 

ALGER COUNTY, Mich. (WLUC) - LMAS District Health Department is announcing the first confirmed positive case of COVID-19 in an Alger
County Resident.

On June 9, LMAS District Health Department became aware of a positive COVID-19 case identified through laboratory testing. The identified person is an adult and had contact with a confirmed case in another state. The person is currently hospitalized out of the area.

The LMAS District Health Department will notify people who have been identified as close contacts. They will be assessed for symptoms and monitored appropriately. In order to protect patient privacy, LMAS District Health Department will not be disclosing additional information about the individual.

 

LMAS District Health Department will not be submitting press releases for any additional cases after the first case in each county. It is important for everyone to know that the novel coronavirus which causes COVID-19 is present throughout the region. 
 

As of 2:50 p.m. June 9, this case brings the U.P.'s total to 124 cases, with 16 deaths and at least 80 recoveries.

[Witness1970]

1 hour ago, Bob said:

So are you saying keeping the economy closed and keeping people on lockdown indefinitely will never cost lives?

No. That'said not what I said.  We have been on lock down and some people are staying physically separated, which should reduce the spread of the contagion, but some are still dying.  With more contact between people,  there will be more deaths. 

 

There is no need for us to argue. We can wait and see if cases increase now that things are opening up more.  

[Bob]

Just now, Witness1970 said:

No. That'said not what I said.  We have been on lock down and some people are staying physically separated, which should reduce the spread of the contagion, but some are still dying.  With more contact between people,  there will be more deaths. 

 

There is no need for us to argue. We can wait and see if cases increase now that things are opening up more.  

Well, OK. That's why I asked. Thank you. 

 

When you say opening up will cost lives, you're implying that staying closed will not cost lives.

 

Thanks for the clarity. 

[Witness1970]

48 minutes ago, Loopy said:

Well, Ross, it had to happen sometime. Yep, our county, “Alger” finally has its first confirmed case.

 

https://www.uppermichiganssource.com/content/news/First-positive-COVID-19-case-confirmed-in-Alger-County-571136381.html?fbclid=IwAR2rj32pg1TjE1SmVp61M3Wc4KoDUro7HgkmhUtBEzmSNrzRmW21_wFxuMU
 

ALGER COUNTY, Mich. (WLUC) - LMAS District Health Department is announcing the first confirmed positive case of COVID-19 in an Alger
County Resident.

On June 9, LMAS District Health Department became aware of a positive COVID-19 case identified through laboratory testing. The identified person is an adult and had contact with a confirmed case in another state. The person is currently hospitalized out of the area.

The LMAS District Health Department will notify people who have been identified as close contacts. They will be assessed for symptoms and monitored appropriately. In order to protect patient privacy, LMAS District Health Department will not be disclosing additional information about the individual.

 

LMAS District Health Department will not be submitting press releases for any additional cases after the first case in each county. It is important for everyone to know that the novel coronavirus which causes COVID-19 is present throughout the region. 
 

As of 2:50 p.m. June 9, this case brings the U.P.'s total to 124 cases, with 16 deaths and at least 80 recoveries.

I would not want to calculate the number of COVID cases that have been prevented and the number of other deaths that have been caused by people being stuck at home. I hear that there have also been suicides from people having to stay at home. Insufficient data to make such calculations. I have told people for two months,  the government can open the economy whenever they want to, I'll be watching out my window. Republicans hate it when I say that. I just ask them if they are against opening the economy , or are they against me staying at home.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Witness1970

[BenJepthah]

1 hour ago, Witness1970 said:

I would not want to calculate the number of COVID cases that have been prevented and the number of other deaths that have been caused by people being stuck at home. I hear that there have also been suicides from people having to stay at home. Insufficient data to make such calculations. I have told people for two months,  the government can open the economy whenever they want to, I'll be watching out my window. Republicans hate it when I say that. I just ask them if they are against opening the economy , or are they against me staying at home.

I would be against you staying at home. On meeting nights or on service days. Or anytime you are depressed. Or if you need to make a living. Or if you need groceries. Or if you need exercise or sunshine. Or if your lonely. Etc etc ...

[BenJepthah]

Does opening up

or not really matter anymore? My area has already seen an increase in cases immediately following the Protests. Already law enforcement and national guard who had to mind the protests are testing positive in pronounced numbers. So at this point the question of containment is moot. It’s too late . The Genie is out of the bottle and has ridden the Fonzes motorcycle over the shark tank. The cow has left the barn and the chickens have flown the coop. 

[Loopy]

One more county in the Michigan U P went down for the count. ☹️
 

https://www.upmatters.com/news/michigan-coronavirus-first-positive-covid-19-case-reported-in-keweenaw-county/?fbclid=IwAR01hHWoRALWVzsgpFZDrOvv525vyoxtl-MgalfrHLHxg83JvQdbY3iITmw

 

KEWEENAW COUNTY, Mich. (WJMN) – The Western Upper Peninsula Health Department received notification Tuesday evening of the first positive COVID-19 case in Keweenaw County. 
 

The asymptomatic case was found during preoperative testing protocols at an area hospital. The health department continues to investigate the case. Close contacts include recent visitors from downstate.
 

Additionally, the agency reports another asymptomatic positive for Houghton County today that is under investigation.

 

“We will be closely monitoring any individuals who may have had direct, personal contact with the
identified cases, such as household contacts,” said Kate Beer, Health Officer at WUPHD. “Additional
information will be provided if our investigation reveals any possible lower-risk community exposures. Case investigation and contact tracing are becoming even more important as stay at home orders are lifted.”

[Witness1970]

3 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

I would be against you staying at home. On meeting nights or on service days. Or anytime you are depressed. Or if you need to make a living. Or if you need groceries. Or if you need exercise or sunshine. Or if your lonely. Etc etc ...

Meetings are on Zoom, service is by letter writing and telephone, I am not depressed, I am retired and have above average retirement income, I can get groceries delivered, I do go out in my yard for sunshine and exercise, I am not lonely.

 

I would liove to get back to the Hall and see the brothers and sisters, but I am high risk.  Over 75% of people my age and health who get COVID die. The GB is not going to open everything up just because the government does. We will be doing Zoom meetings until it is safe

 

No need to worry about me. I am safer at home.

[Bob]

Now WHO has been pressured by the scientific community to retract its findings that asymptomatic people rarely transmit Covid.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/in-the-whos-coronavirus-stumbles-some-scientists-see-a-pattern/ar-BB15gcZp?ocid=spartanntp 

 

Its getting hard to trust any Covid related findings now, especially when scientific organizations are now being pressured to retract statements about covid related findings. 

 

[BenJepthah]

Officially now at my work I know of three people who have been symptomatic and off work with COVID who have never tested negative after weeks of trying to get a Negative test. They are all A or B blood types. My family ( genetic) is almost entirely O. So we seem to be highly resistant. But I would not be surprised to find out that Everyone who has had This and recovered is now a carrier. 
     If you are older , and have preexisting conditions , and are blood type A , my heartfelt sympathies. This is absolutely miserable at best and lethal at worst. And it may soon be in every person you meet. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by BenJepthah

[Shawnster]

4 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

Does opening up

or not really matter anymore? My area has already seen an increase in cases immediately following the Protests. Already law enforcement and national guard who had to mind the protests are testing positive in pronounced numbers. So at this point the question of containment is moot. 

Just where are you referring?  

 

Since it takes 2 weeks to incubate, when were these riots or protests held that resulted in these infections? 

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/continuing-coverage/coronavirus/ohio-reports-lowest-daily-covid-19-cases-in-nearly-2-months-cuyahoga-co-lowest-since-mid-may

 

Ohio reported LOWEST daily cases in 2 months.  This is all of Ohio, not just where I am. 

 

Do you have links to these spikes you are seeing? Were they in Ohio?  How can Ohio see spikes and lowest infection counts simultaneously? 

[BenJepthah]

1 hour ago, Witness1970 said:

Meetings are on Zoom, service is by letter writing and telephone, I am not depressed, I am retired and have above average retirement income, I can get groceries delivered, I do go out in my yard for sunshine and exercise, I am not lonely.

 

I would liove to get back to the Hall and see the brothers and sisters, but I am high risk.  Over 75% of people my age and health who get COVID die. The GB is not going to open everything up just because the government does. We will be doing Zoom meetings until it is safe

 

No need to worry about me. I am safer at home.

I’m am very glad to hear you have these conditions to weather this. So, since you meet all of the things I’ve stated I’m happy you are safe at home. I do not. But I. A few years I too would happily stay home and for the same reasons. Interestingly though , why would anyone think you should have to participate in an open economy beyond what you are already doing? 

[BenJepthah]

7 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Just where are you referring?  

 

Since it takes 2 weeks to incubate, when were these riots or protests held that resulted in these infections? 

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/continuing-coverage/coronavirus/ohio-reports-lowest-daily-covid-19-cases-in-nearly-2-months-cuyahoga-co-lowest-since-mid-may

 

Ohio reported LOWEST daily cases in 2 months.  This is all of Ohio, not just where I am. 

 

Do you have links to these spikes you are seeing? Were they in Ohio?  How can Ohio see spikes and lowest infection counts simultaneously? 

I may work in Ohio but it Louisville Ky I have seen stats for. And a few other areas that had large protests earlier than in Ohio. But if you think it’s unsafe to reopen the economy then for all the same reasons you should expect that these protests will cause a massive increase in cases. As for Ohio I have seen only declines , same with Indian and Ky as a whole. Only at the city level initially would we see an increase. The National guard and police are seeing new cases ( not necessarily increases )in some cities. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by BenJepthah

[BenJepthah]

1 hour ago, Witness1970 said:

Meetings are on Zoom, service is by letter writing and telephone, I am not depressed, I am retired and have above average retirement income, I can get groceries delivered, I do go out in my yard for sunshine and exercise, I am not lonely.

 

I would liove to get back to the Hall and see the brothers and sisters, but I am high risk.  Over 75% of people my age and health who get COVID die. The GB is not going to open everything up just because the government does. We will be doing Zoom meetings until it is safe

 

No need to worry about me. I am safer at home.

I’m am very glad to hear you have these conditions to weather this. So, since you meet all of the things I’ve stated I’m happy you are safe at home. I do not. But I. A few years I too would happily stay home and for the same reasons. Interestingly though , why would anyone think you should have to participate in an open economy beyond what you are already doing? 

The good news . Today we began testing every patient in and arriving at my facility using the rapid test . All on my floor tested negative. 

[ChocoBro]

For anyone actually interested in facts and numbers, this page has some interesting data and links to the corresponding studies.

 

https://swprs.org/studies-on-covid-19-lethality/

 

One thing that immediately hits you is the insane difference between fatality rates based on studies and fatality rates based on epidemiological models, literally proving that the scientific community predicted this to be a doomsday plague when it simply isn't.

 

Quote

Initial estimates based on Chinese data assumed a very high 20% hospitalization rate, which led to the strategy of ‘flattening the curve’ to avoid overburdening hospitals. However, population-based antibody studies (see above) have since shown that actual hospitalization rates are close to 1%, which is within the range of hospitalization rates for influenza (1 to 2%).

The studies determing the actual prevalence are off the chart at times, too. Meaning the virus is soooo much more widespread than the numbers will tell you, which is actually a good thing.

 

Not that it matters. The damage is done. Even younger people are scared to leave their houses, scared to be close to each other. Not able to hold an open and fact-based discussion. Not open to any agreement, love of the greater number cooling off, not even going to mention the economic damage done, and when I say economic damage, I mean the little man and his little shop at the street corner, not corporations like big pharma, Amazon or DHL that are having a feast.

[Miss Bea]

4 hours ago, Witness1970 said:

Meetings are on Zoom, service is by letter writing and telephone, I am not depressed, I am retired and have above average retirement income, I can get groceries delivered, I do go out in my yard for sunshine and exercise, I am not lonely.

 

I would liove to get back to the Hall and see the brothers and sisters, but I am high risk.  Over 75% of people my age and health who get COVID die. The GB is not going to open everything up just because the government does. We will be doing Zoom meetings until it is safe

 

No need to worry about me. I am safer at home.

Actually, this isn’t all that bad for me, either. But for me, it is beside the point. People are dying, yes, even brothers and sisters. While I’m sitting at home, on a pretty well, fixed, (and decent income, not like the world, but enough to get by, and a tad to share) income, the ones missing school, Their families, and, I’ve given thought to ones with large families, at home, even small families at home, and, struggling, financially. Then there are the ones who know better then to go to the hospital. Don’t care if they need too...However that is working. Then there are the ones in the medical field. I don’t think this has been a picnic for them.

We will get through this, one way or another. With Jehovah’s help.

[Witness1970]

1 hour ago, Miss Bea said:

Actually, this isn’t all that bad for me, either. But for me, it is beside the point. People are dying, yes, even brothers and sisters. While I’m sitting at home, on a pretty well, fixed, (and decent income, not like the world, but enough to get by, and a tad to share) income, the ones missing school, Their families, and, I’ve given thought to ones with large families, at home, even small families at home, and, struggling, financially. Then there are the ones who know better then to go to the hospital. Don’t care if they need too...However that is working. Then there are the ones in the medical field. I don’t think this has been a picnic for them.

We will get through this, one way or another. With Jehovah’s help.

I know what you mean.  I was actually upset when I received the stimulus check because I didn't need the money and I knew others that needed even more. They sent the money to a lot of people that did not need it, ncluding me. That money has already gone elsewhere. I feel for those people and I am looking for ways to help those locally who need it.

[Witness1970]

5 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

I’m am very glad to hear you have these conditions to weather this. So, since you meet all of the things I’ve stated I’m happy you are safe at home. I do not. But I. A few years I too would happily stay home and for the same reasons. Interestingly though , why would anyone think you should have to participate in an open economy beyond what you are already doing? 

The good news . Today we began testing every patient in and arriving at my facility using the rapid test . All on my floor tested negative. 

I am glad everyone on your floor tested negative.  More testing for patients is also good news.

Edit: I also wanted to say I have great respect for the medical community that are exposing themselves to danger in order to help others. Stay safe as much as possible. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Witness1970

[blacc]

38 minutes ago, Witness1970 said:

I know what you mean.  I was actually upset when I received the stimulus check because I didn't need the money and I knew others that needed even more. They sent the money to a lot of people that did not need it, ncluding me. That money has already gone elsewhere. I feel for those people and I am looking for ways to help those locally who need it.

Well, I KNOW that I need it. I've been off work since the end of March as a result of the pandemic. I'm a teacher and have been without income for three months now because schools here remain closed. So it's getting harder and harder by the day. So if you would like to share, dear brother, even if only a little, I would be most grateful. Sometimes it helps to remove some pride and say it as it is. 

[Shawnster]

5 hours ago, ChocoBro said:

One thing that immediately hits you is the insane difference between fatality rates based on studies and fatality rates based on epidemiological models, literally proving that the scientific community predicted this to be a doomsday plague when it simply isn't.

This statement seems in conflict with the reality we saw in NYC and Italy where we saw massive amounts of death. I understand where you are coming from because NOW it doesn't seem as bad but I still can't rationalize what we see now with what we saw in those two locations months ago. 

 

Is this a case of the safety measures actually worked well and that's why it doesn't seem so bad now? 

[Witness1970]

2 hours ago, blacc said:

Well, I KNOW that I need it. I've been off work since the end of March as a result of the pandemic. I'm a teacher and have been without income for three months now because schools here remain closed. So it's getting harder and harder by the day. So if you would like to share, dear brother, even if only a little, I would be most grateful. Sometimes it helps to remove some pride and say it as it is. 

There are a lot of people in the same situation you are.  That is why I said I was bothered when they sent me a check.  My check could have gone to someone else who needed it. As I said the check I received has already gone elsewhere.

 

Edit: Not just my check but a lot of other people got checks they did not need.  It would have been better to identify people that needed help and send them money.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Witness1970

[ChocoBro]

14 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

 

Is this a case of the safety measures actually worked well and that's why it doesn't seem so bad now? 

Unclear. So many 'ifs' and variables. Why doesn't Japan or Sweden have these problems, despite little lockdown policies?

Population density surely doesn't explain it. Did the Italians have a different strain? Different genetic traits making them more susceptible? Larger and more dense clusters of old and sick people? Maybe, just maybe, the italian hospitals treated the patients completely wrong? Maybe they don't have a good health system to begin with. In NYC, the deaths were primarily among people with poor or no health care coverage, and to a large degree, in old folks homes as far as I know.

 

In Italy, isn't it still weird that despite the fact we used to think the virus is so easily transmitted, it hardly spread across Italy, despite the fact that one main cluster developed in densely populated carneval festivities? Same goes for Wuhan, where a lot of people travelled away from a hot zone where the virus is said to have had its outbreak somewhere between August and October of 2019.. but only Wuhan was severely affected?

Also, we don't know the level of extortion  involved, another big variable. If a hospital gets 35.000 USD for putting a patient on a ventilator, and a study claims that intubation causes more harm than good in most cases.. would that explain why minimal invasive oxygenation wasn't the first choice for some hospitals? I've worked in cooperation with healthcare sector long enough to know that it isn't only about the patient. It is also about profit for the investors, hence about money.

 

Of course, some safety measures weren't as useless as others. It's not like they didn't change anything at all in countries like Sweden. But in the end, is fatality rate affected by safety measures at all? All they do is slow down the outbreak, the intent is to not put too much strain on healthcare systems. Sweden has a higher death count per capita, but also a higher level of immunity.