Vaccination required

[Tortuga]

A federal judge has ruled that an employer can require employees to be vaccinated.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/federal-judge-sides-houston-hospitals-020713664.html

[Brother_Bliss]

50 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

A federal judge has ruled that an employer can require employees to be vaccinated.

Good.

 

I am requiring it also.

 

[Tortuga]

15 minutes ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

Good.

 

I am requiring it also.

 

Here?

[Doug]

I'm no legal expert , but if I understand this correctly, the judge dismissed the claim against the hospital because he found the claim lacked factual evidence. This is understandable, because the FDA has given provisional emergency authorization , there isn't enough factual evidence to support a claim. It's mostly speculation and personal feelings.

 

My point is that a dismissal doesn't establish any legal precedent.

 

This decision only has the effect that Houston Methodist hospital can terminate employees for refusing vaccination.  Other workers at other hospitals still have the option of seeking redress from the courts.

 

Whatever decision the courts will arrive at probably won't involve government employees , just private employers/employees.  If Federal Employees were subject to firing over refusal to be vaccinated , then fully half the employees at CDC and NIH could lose their jobs. That's how many of the employees working at 'ground zero' decline the vaccination - 50%.

[Thesauron]

That's how many of the employees working at 'ground zero' decline the vaccination - 50%.

Source?

[Witness1970]

A lot of people in the world are against getting the vaccine due to political and religious spreading misinformation.  Certain politicians make up all kinds of lies to turn people away from vaccines.  I sometimes hear those lies but I turn away from most of that talk.  It is impossible not to occasionally hear the lies.

 

Getting the shot will not make your arm magnetic.  Getting the shot will not make you homosexual. Getting the shot is not the mark of the beast.

 

I was channel-surfing one day and heard someone claim to be a doctor and also claim that vaccinated people were the ones that spread the disease.  I wonder how the disease was spread before the vaccine and why the cases are going down since vaccinations started.  Must be some time travel involved.

 

There was a certain politician that was saying not to wear masks.  One woman was asked by a reporter 'what about the science.'  She said she did not believe in science, she believed her god.  She doesn't even believe that her god was voted out of office.

 

Some time back doctor Fauci was asked how many in the CDC had been vaccinated.  He said he wasn't sure, but he thought the number was around 50-60% at hat time.  The anti-vax group started telling people that 40-50% of CDC employees were refusing to get the vaccine.

 

I guess the main point is that the Governing body does not say whether or not people should get the vaccine.  It is a personal decision, but most everyone at Bethel has already gotten the vaccine.  That tells me a lot.

[Brother_Bliss]

9 hours ago, Doug said:

That's how many of the employees working at 'ground zero' decline the vaccination - 50%.

If that statistic were actually accurate, it could be used to demonstrate how many morons are in government 😉

 

49 minutes ago, Witness1970 said:

but most everyone at Bethel has already gotten the vaccine.  That tells me a lot.

Bingo!

 

Sure, it's a personal decision, but finding a vaccine and inoculating individuals was and always has been the fastest, safest way out of this pandemic.

[AH173]

An unbaptized publisher told me that university hospitals in Cleveland Ohio area has required all nurses to get the vaccine. 

 

She told me and fsg overseer that her blood type was immune to covid19 a few weeks ago. 

 

If I heard her correctly, nurses will receive a $10.00 /hour increase in pay as long it is considered a pandemic. 

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, AH173 said:

She told me and fsg overseer that her blood type was immune to covid19 a few weeks ago. 

 

Interesting.  

 

How blood type affects COVID-19

 

Recent data suggests that people with blood type A have a significantly higher risk of acquiring COVID-19 than non-A blood types. Blood type O seems to have the lowest risk. Yet these risks are relative, meaning people with type O blood are not immune to COVID-19. "We do know that people of all types can get infected with COVID-19," says cardiologist Daniel Anderson, MD, PhD.

[AH173]

Thanks for that information. I'm just going from what she told me as a medical professional. 

[Tortuga]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/business/covid-vaccine-employer-rules.html

 

Apparently federal laws don't prevent employers from requiring employees to be vaccinated. I think we will see a lot more about this.

[Doug]

14 hours ago, Witness1970 said:

  It is a personal decision, but most everyone at Bethel has already gotten the vaccine.  That tells me a lot.

That tells me a lot as well.

 

13 hours ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

If that statistic were actually accurate, it could be used to demonstrate how many morons are in government 😉

 

See above.

[Brother_Bliss]

9 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Apparently federal laws don't prevent employers from requiring employees to be vaccinated. I think we will see a lot more about this.

 

Nope. My company, my business, my prerogative. If I'm hiring and you're looking for a job, I can request that you show me proof of vaccination and then turn you down if you won't get vaccinated.

 

You have to make accommodations if there is a legit medical reason one cannot get a vaccine, and I cannot think of any legit medical reasons that would prohibit one from doing so. You also have to make accommodations if someone objects on religious grounds, but I cannot think of any religion that objects to the covid vaccines. Jehovah's people don't object to these vaccines, because they are smart and value life and good health and have love of neighbor coursing through their veins

[trottigy]

I got a message from the University:

 

Quote

The Nevada System of Higher Education plans to require COVID-19 vaccinations for students once the vaccine receives full approval by the Food and Drug Administration. We urge students to do their part to ensure a safe return to campus and prepare for this potential requirement by getting vaccinated at the UNLV Student Union, a Southern Nevada Health District site, or other locations in their communities.

I'm sure they are not the only school/ university that will do this.

[Witness1970]

9 hours ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

 

Nope. My company, my business, my prerogative. If I'm hiring and you're looking for a job, I can request that you show me proof of vaccination and then turn you down if you won't get vaccinated.

 

You have to make accommodations if there is a legit medical reason one cannot get a vaccine, and I cannot think of any legit medical reasons that would prohibit one from doing so. You also have to make accommodations if someone objects on religious grounds, but I cannot think of any religion that objects to the covid vaccines. Jehovah's people don't object to these vaccines, because they are smart and value life and good health and have love of neighbor coursing through their veins

There are certain diseases that weaken the immune system.  People who are on chemotherapy or radiation therapy and are still able to function in society may have a weakened immune system.  Those are legitimate medical reason not to get the vaccine.  I know this because my son was diagnosed with Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia at the age of 2.  His immune system was weakened tremendously.  He had to have 3 years of chemotherapy and 2 years of after therapy checkups.  He started school without getting a lot of the required vaccinations.  (He had some before he was diagnosed, but after the diagnosis could not take others.)  That is a legit medical reason for not getting vaccinated.  It can happen to adults also.  Immune deficiency is a legitimate reason not to have a vaccination.

 

Religious beliefs?  Members of a religion can have personally held religious beliefs that are not part of the official teachings of their religion.  There are beliefs that are left up to the person's conscience.  In that case, a man who decides not to drink alcohol, for instance, should obey his conscience and drink no alcohol.  To drink alcohol against what his conscience says, would be wrong.  Personally held religious beliefs have held up in court as a reason not to take vaccines, even though the person's religion was not opposed to vaccines.  Of course, this should not be done whimsically just because someone does not want to take a vaccine.

 

And certainly, no one of Jehovah's Witnesses should refuse vaccinations because of the lies of a politician of whatever party.

[Shawnster]

14 hours ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

You also have to make accommodations if someone objects on religious grounds, but I cannot think of any religion that objects to the covid vaccines.

Just because your religion or your understanding of the scriptures prevents you from finding any objections on religious grounds doesn't mean that there aren't any.  Faith healers, Christian Scientists, and Amish might object to the vaccine on basis of religion.  Their scriptural understanding is obviously flawed, but it's still their religious understanding.  It's not up the courts or you as the employer to dictate what is or is not a violation of someone's religious beliefs.  

4 hours ago, Witness1970 said:

There are certain diseases that weaken the immune system. 

Since the Covid vaccine is different than traditional vaccines that use dead virus cells, would the Covid vaccine have the same effect on an immunocompromised individual?   

[lovjahupepl]

1 hour ago, Shawnster said:

Since the Covid vaccine is different than traditional vaccines that use dead virus cells, would the Covid vaccine have the same effect on an immunocompromised individual?   

 

5 hours ago, Witness1970 said:

There are certain diseases that weaken the immune system.  People who are on chemotherapy or radiation therapy and are still able to function in society may have a weakened immune system.  Those are legitimate medical reason not to get the vaccine.  I know this because my son was diagnosed with Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia at the age of 2.  His immune system was weakened tremendously.  He had to have 3 years of chemotherapy and 2 years of after therapy checkups.  He started school without getting a lot of the required vaccinations.  (He had some before he was diagnosed, but after the diagnosis could not take others.)  That is a legit medical reason for not getting vaccinated.  It can happen to adults also.  Immune deficiency is a legitimate reason not to have a vaccination.

Just supporting information:

https://www.upmc.com/media/news/040921-haidar-hemonc-ab-medrxiv
People with cancer that affects the blood, bone marrow or lymph nodes are at elevated risk of COVID-19 vaccine failure, particularly those with chronic lymphocytic leukemia, according to new results from an analysis of UPMC Hillman Cancer Center patients.

 

[Shawnster]

18 minutes ago, lovjahupepl said:

 

Just supporting information:

https://www.upmc.com/media/news/040921-haidar-hemonc-ab-medrxiv
People with cancer that affects the blood, bone marrow or lymph nodes are at elevated risk of COVID-19 vaccine failure, particularly those with chronic lymphocytic leukemia, according to new results from an analysis of UPMC Hillman Cancer Center patients.

 

Covid-19 vaccine failure sounds like the vaccine would simply not work or not work as well as it should.  In other words, the vaccine might be ineffective in a leukemia patient.  However, nothing is said about the vaccine causing health complications in a leukemia patient, if I understand correctly.  It might be a waste of a vaccine, but it's not like receiving the vaccine will make a leukemia patient sick(er). 

[lovjahupepl]

7 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Covid-19 vaccine failure sounds like the vaccine would simply not work or not work as well as it should.  In other words, the vaccine might be ineffective in a leukemia patient.  However, nothing is said about the vaccine causing health complications in a leukemia patient, if I understand correctly.  It might be a waste of a vaccine, but it's not like receiving the vaccine will make a leukemia patient sick(er). 

I think since everyone's body is different it could affect each person differently. 

 

I do know that one of the friends that recently past after taking shot had cancer in past (but it was in remission).  Their white blood count was found to be at extremely high levels and it seemed to be in the bone marrow area only.  Leukemia was mentioned.  They were fine before taking shot.  The mere fact that this is a new type of vaccine that is experimental (and authorized for emergency use) means who really knows right now if it will simply not be effective or make the person sicker.  Those faced with the decision to or not to subject their family member to shot because of the unknown effects is a difficult one.  It's just not so cut and dry since everyone's experience is different. 

[carlos]

2 hours ago, lovjahupepl said:

People with cancer that affects the blood, bone marrow or lymph nodes are at elevated risk of COVID-19 vaccine failure, particularly those with chronic lymphocytic leukemia, according to new results from an analysis of UPMC Hillman Cancer Center patients.

There exist medical reasons that make the vaccine unadvisable in some cases. But I guess people suffering from those conditions wouldn't be looking for the hard physical work Bob is hiring people for.

Edited June 15, 2021 by carlos

[Fallbrookian]

On 6/13/2021 at 10:37 PM, Doug said:

That's how many of the employees working at 'ground zero' decline the vaccination - 50%.

On 6/14/2021 at 8:17 AM, Dismal_Bliss said:

If that statistic were actually accurate, it could be used to demonstrate how many morons are in government

A better comment would be, what do they know that I don't know?  I certainly would never call someone a moron because they have a different view about medical treatment than I do. By saying this my dear brother Dismal Bliss you are inferring that anyone who thinks differently from you on the covid jab is a moron.  Is that pursuing the things making for peace? (Rom 14:19)

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Dismal_Bliss
fixed quotation formatting

[Brother_Bliss]

7 minutes ago, Nancy M said:

A better comment would be, what do they know that I don't know?

Well that wouldn't be a better comment because the simple answer to that is "nothing". All the science, all the data, is public information. There is no hidden agenda, secrets, etc, regarding the vaccines, their chemistry, their efficacy, their safety, etc.

 

I would like to take a moment to draw a line between 1) those who would like to allow more time to pass before accepting a covid vaccine (or those who have a legitimate medical reason now to take it, if such a thing exists, as noted by some members above), and 2) militant anti-vaxxers. The latter are aggressively pushy with their views and overly haughty about not getting a vaccine because they think they know something we don't know... which to a point is true. The "know" all the ridiculous conspiracy theories surrounding vaccines that are completely devoid of fact and hold no weight.

 

16 minutes ago, Nancy M said:

I certainly would never call someone a moron because they have a different view about medical treatment than I do. By saying this my dear brother Dismal Bliss you are inferring that anyone who thinks differently from you on the covid jab is a moron.

 

My comment is meant within the context of government. The majority of anti-vaxxers and ant-maskers subscribe to one political ideology. For example....

 

Still more evidence that COVID-19 is on its way to becoming a predominantly Republican disease (dailykos.com)

 

^ about 50% of government. Now don't get me wrong, whereas in my struggles to remain politically neutral in all things, usually I would agree with most of their issues they have with the left. But unfortunately they got it dead wrong when it came to the coronavirus. They have no real substance in their position either other than 'the left supports it so we're obligated to hate it' lol.

 

But no, people are not morons for having a different medical view, provided that medical view isn't driven by political or social brainwashing. It was not my intention to offend anyone or to start a debate.

 

So with that in mind, let's get back on the topic "Employers can legally require employees to get vaccinated".

 

As a private business owner and employer, this is a good thing. I can protect the good health of myself and my family, my co-workers, and my clients, many of whom are at risk individuals. Granted, studies are pointing to being vaccinated with the awesome mRNA vaccines as meaning your almost bulletproof to infection (save for maybe a booster shot some time down the road, which we don't know if that'll be necessary yet). So as long as everyone else is vaccinated, it might not matter if someone isn't as they won't be able to catch it and infect you. But even though the data is pointing in that direction, it's not official yet, and so until it is, we're going to require vaccinations should we be hiring. 

 

This is and should be well within the rights of any private business owner.

 

 

[Doug]

1 hour ago, Nancy M said:

A better comment would be, what do they know that I don't know?  I certainly would never call someone a moron because they have a different view about medical treatment than I do. By saying this my dear brother Dismal Bliss you are inferring that anyone who thinks differently from you on the covid jab is a moron.  Is that pursuing the things making for peace? (Rom 14:19)

 

Post #6 , Randall made the point that most everyone serving at headquarters has already been vaccinated.  'Most' could be anywhere from 51% or greater. The GB has not waivered from their counsel that it's a personal decision. They have not hinted that anyone declining would be irresponsible for their decision.

Declining the vaccine doesn't make an individual an anti-vaxxer. 

 

Regarding the topic -  It's almost certainly heading to the Supreme Court.  The court may approve an expedited hearing in view of the imminent threat of thousands losing their jobs, if not careers.

[Beggar for the Spirit]

 

Quote

(A quote from the Yahoo article that Richard shared in his OP)

 

 “The lawsuit was filed by 117 workers led by Jennifer Bridges, a nurse at Houston Methodist's Baytown hospital who declined the vaccine because she considers it experimental and dangerous. The judge disagreed, writing: "This claim is false, and it is also irrelevant."

While people may have different opinions about the current vaccines(I don’t want to start any debates😁), I shared this quote above because I wonder why this judge made such a firm statement? Judges are supposed to make decisions based on laws/precedents, so I am just curious if he based his decision on government approval/FDA approval? Anyway, I am just a little curious about that, but what I am more interested in is what is the current government/FDA view on each of the vaccines? So if anyone knows the answer to any of the following questions, please share, thanks.  

 

QUESTIONS:

I was wondering if anyone knows whether any COVID vaccines

• have finally been approved by the FDA? (I haven’t heard of any being approved yet)
• Or are any of the vaccines currently going through the process for FDA approval?
• Or have any or all of the vaccines already been denied FDA approval?

Edited June 16, 2021 by Beggar for the Spirit

[lovjahupepl]

6 hours ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

Well that wouldn't be a better comment because the simple answer to that is "nothing". All the science, all the data, is public information. There is no hidden agenda, secrets, etc, regarding the vaccines, their chemistry, their efficacy, their safety, etc.

 

I would like to take a moment to draw a line between 1) those who would like to allow more time to pass before accepting a covid vaccine (or those who have a legitimate medical reason now to take it, if such a thing exists, as noted by some members above), and 2) militant anti-vaxxers. The latter are aggressively pushy with their views and overly haughty about not getting a vaccine because they think they know something we don't know... which to a point is true. The "know" all the ridiculous conspiracy theories surrounding vaccines that are completely devoid of fact and hold no weight.

 

 

My comment is meant within the context of government. The majority of anti-vaxxers and ant-maskers subscribe to one political ideology. For example....

 

Still more evidence that COVID-19 is on its way to becoming a predominantly Republican disease (dailykos.com)

 

^ about 50% of government. Now don't get me wrong, whereas in my struggles to remain politically neutral in all things, usually I would agree with most of their issues they have with the left. But unfortunately they got it dead wrong when it came to the coronavirus. They have no real substance in their position either other than 'the left supports it so we're obligated to hate it' lol.

 

But no, people are not morons for having a different medical view, provided that medical view isn't driven by political or social brainwashing. It was not my intention to offend anyone or to start a debate.

 

So with that in mind, let's get back on the topic "Employers can legally require employees to get vaccinated".

 

As a private business owner and employer, this is a good thing. I can protect the good health of myself and my family, my co-workers, and my clients, many of whom are at risk individuals. Granted, studies are pointing to being vaccinated with the awesome mRNA vaccines as meaning your almost bulletproof to infection (save for maybe a booster shot some time down the road, which we don't know if that'll be necessary yet). So as long as everyone else is vaccinated, it might not matter if someone isn't as they won't be able to catch it and infect you. But even though the data is pointing in that direction, it's not official yet, and so until it is, we're going to require vaccinations should we be hiring. 

 

This is and should be well within the rights of any private business owner.

 

 

I am so glad that Jehovah and Jesus will not be separating people based on if they "are vaccinated" or "not vaccinated" and nor by percentages and numbers that can not possibly be measured because everyone's body is different.   Based on the CDC's own website vaccinated people can still get the virus.  So suppose a business has all vaccinated people they still can have an infection.  My concern would not be the percentages it would be that it's  a possibility.  https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html.  Asymptomatic infections among vaccinated people will also occur.

 

It's so sad to see that satan has finally found something to build a wedge between Jehovah's people.  It makes me think of how lepers must have felt.  They were not responsible for getting sick but they were treated as outcasts.  With a leper it was usually clearly visible that they had a disease by the deformity the disease caused.  However, this virus is invisible therefore no one knows who has it by simply looking at the person.  So the government's solution is to make "unvaccinated people" the modern day "lepers" with no proof they have it and despite the fact "vaccinated people" can still catch and spread said virus. This situation clearly emphasizes what the Bible says that man made governments are not equipped to handle mankind's problems.

 

Many of the rules imposed on lepers were man made.  It's so comforting to know that;

 

Jesus didn't say "get away" you don't deserve help because you are sick or "I'm only going to help" those that are well. 

 

Let's put that in modern day senario. 

 

"Get away you don't deserve to work, be helped, given support etc." because you didn't take the shot and may possibly infect me or  I'm only going to help "those that took the shot" because they made the right choice to be vaccinated.

 

It's not that cut and dry.  People have real reasons why they can't or won't take said shot.  It's not their fault that this situation happened and they are only trying to navigate and make the right choice for their family.  We definitely shouldn't be lumping Jehovah's people with the world that have agendas and push certain theories.  I would like to believe that anyone of the friends choosing not to take said shot would take the precautions needed to keep themselves and others safe.  Those in the world would be my concern because their decisions are not in line with Jehovah's thinking and don't have the same appreciation for life.  So if you think you have issues now imagine going back out there door to door in the field.

 

Is the person's door we knock on vaccinated or unvaccinated?  Are we only going to preach to the "vaccinated?" and shun "the unvaccinated".  Will we be asking "are you vaccinated"  show me you card/passport before we make a presentation?  Will we only go to the homes and study with only vaccinated people?  Are only vaccinated people deserving of Jehovah's word?  Is the person an antivaxxer that is politically on the "left" or "right" so I shouldn't try to help them?

 

Basically, we have a lot more to worry about than if our Brother/Sister has or hasn't taking said shot.

 

This covid-19 situations is no where near the level of a leper yet people are freaking out over the possibly of getting a virus just because of numbers and percentages the news media rattles off.  No one here has been present during the testing/manufacturing of said shot, nor has anyone here been present when the numbers were gathered about deaths, positive/negative results, side effects  etc.  So we can only go by what we are told.  Just because someone "says something" doesn't make it so.

 

Not minimizing the seriousness of the situation but it's really sad to see fellow worshipers act as if they are the authority over a situations none of us have any direct experience with.  Everyone's situation is different and have the right to decide for themselves and their family whether to take said shot or not.  I'm so thankful that the GB announced that we "as Jehovah's people" are not antivaxxers and in cooperation with the government many have chosen to be vaccinated but also added that it's a personal choice and we should be loving and respectful of each other.   They didn't take sides.  They said "many" not "almost all of" have chosen to take said shot.  So there's no way to know how many did or didn't take said shot.  If they are "not" separating people based on being vaccinated vs not being vaccinated why are we taking sides with the government's thinking on doing so?  So are we to conclude that those at Bethel that decided for their own personal reasons to not take the shot should be "sent home", "not be allowed to work in Jehovah's service", "are antivaxxers" and deserve to be called names and judged?  We don't have all the facts why someone makes the decision they do.

 

Since we are supposed to follow Jesus' example I found it very comforting to see how Jesus dealt with the leper. 

 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no4-2016-july/leprosy-divorce-in-the-bible/

That dreaded disease could attack the sufferer’s nerve endings and lead to permanent damage and disfigurement. There was no known cure for leprosy. Rather, those afflicted by it were quarantined and were obliged to warn others of their condition.—Leviticus 13:45, 46

 

The Jewish religious leaders devised rules about leprosy that went beyond what was stated in the Scriptures, making life unnecessarily hard for the victims. For example, rabbinic regulations prohibited anyone from coming within 4 cubits, or about 6 feet (2 m), of a leper. But if a wind was blowing, no one was to come within 100 cubits, or about 150 feet (45 m). Certain Talmudists interpreted the Scriptural requirement that lepers live “outside the camp” to mean that they should be excluded from walled cities. Hence, one rabbi, when he saw a leper within a city, would throw stones at him and say: “Go to your place, and do not defile other people.”

How different was Jesus’ approach! Rather than chasing lepers away, he was willing to touch them?—and even heal them.?—Matthew 8:3.

 

People are in an uproar on the "possibility" that a unvaccinated person may give them said virus?  However the CDC clearly says on their website that asymptomatic infections among vaccinated people will also occur.  Therefore both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can get and spread said virus.  Trying to break it down into percentages is not absolute because everyone's body is different and will handle things differently.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

Quote

Vaccine breakthrough cases are expected. COVID-19 vaccines are effective and are a critical tool to bring the pandemic under control. However, no vaccines are 100% effective at preventing illness in vaccinated people. There will be a small percentage of fully vaccinated people who still get sick, are hospitalized, or die from COVID-19.

More than 139 million people in the United States have been fully vaccinated as of June 7, 2021. Like with other vaccines, vaccine breakthrough cases will occur, even though the vaccines are working as expected. Asymptomatic infections among vaccinated people will also occur

There is some evidence that vaccination may make illness less severe for those who are vaccinated and still get sick.  Current data suggest that COVID-19 vaccines authorized for use in the United States offer protection against most SARS-CoV-2 variants currently circulating in the United States. However, variants will cause some vaccine breakthrough cases.

This situation clearly shows that the government is clearly not equipped to solve mankind's problems.  Their solution is to bully and pit people against each other and instilling fear of lose of job, being shunned, fined, etc.  What does protection really mean anyway?  It's a buzz word presented with a lot of numbers and percentages that can giving people false sense of security when the CDC says "you can still get said virus".  From my observation many are thinking "it will help me not get the virus or i'm immuned\".  Having the shot is not a guarantee you are safe.  Everyone's body is different so this shot  "may according to the professionals" help some and not help others.  Just like someone not taking said shot "may" or "may not" catch the virus.

 

We just finished a Watchtower last week on following Jesus.  I think we should all stop imagining the worst and ask ourselves;

 

How would Jesus treat those unvaccinated, vaccinated, etc? 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by lovjahupepl