Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[X-Tryman]

7 hours ago, Lieblingskind said:

According to the data, 220 of 224 vaccinated who died were those in the age group +50 verses only 4 cases in ages -50

Also please correct if I am wrong at this calculation:

 

Cases and Deaths ratio in population under 50:

Unvaccinated:

34 is 0.028% of 119063

 

Vaccinated:

4 is 0.026% of 15346

 

 

 

 

[Sofia]

Can vaccines promote the development of new variants?

- not likely

 

One of the challenges with the rapid development of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and the intense public interest in them has been science communication. There was a strong emphasis on not over-promising what the vaccines could do, so initial communications stuck to what the EUA-enabling trials actually showed. That’s a good thing, but unfortunately it has been hard to update the public as newer data arrives.

The idea that vaccination applies a selective pressure on the virus is certainly true. The idea that vaccination might select for more transmissible variants has been taken seriously. But so far we have no evidence that this has happened and plenty of evidence which suggests it is extremely unlikely.

Sterilizing immunity makes an individual completely resistant to infection — neutralizing antibody titers are so high that the virus cannot even get a foothold. The COVID vaccines were not developed with sterilizing immunity as a goal. However, real world evidence shows that they are not always sterilizing, vaccination greatly reduces the frequency at which regular tests of healthcare works show PCR-positive infections, symptomatic or not.

So the vaccine is cutting down the number of infections overall, which means fewer opportunities for mutation to explore new variations on the existing viral genomes.

Similarly, there are multiple lines of evidence showing that even when there are breakthrough infections of vaccinated individuals, these individuals transmit much less frequently. So again, less virus circulating is an overall good thing because it means fewer opportunities for new combinations mutations to be explored.

We don’t have solid proof of how the vaccines reduce transmission — those are challenging studies to perform (start thinking about how to design one!) — but we have a good guess. Higher viral loads means more transmissible; lower viral loads means less transmissible. This is a strong candidate for why Alpha (B.1.1.7) is more transmissible than the original virus and why Delta (B.1.617) is even more transmissible than Alpha — higher viral loads (which RT-qPCR can measure).

Guess what vaccination does: it lowers viral loads. Indeed, one challenge in studying breakthrough infections is that the viral loads are often so low as to make sequencing the virus difficult.

So a key mechanism in how vaccines work — by lowering viral load — probably contributes to reducing transmissibility and also means the virus is facing a very steep fitness landscape to beat the vaccines — it must either dodge neutralization by the vaccine (higher viral load) or somehow intrinsically raise the viral load. Neither is impossible, but both are difficult.

It’s also worth noting that when protein engineers want to really change a protein in a big way — radically alter its tolerance to pH or heat for example or changing an enzyme’s specificity— they first do “neutral drift”. In neutral drift one mutates the protein of interest but apply selection only for the existing function. They might even run multiple rounds of this. The idea is to have more jumping off points for when they apply the real selection. What is the epidemiologic version of neutral drift contributing to the selection for vaccine resistance? That would be letting the virus run rampant through an unvaccinated population

So no, there really isn’t any logic to avoiding vaccinating the young on the basis of viral evolution and actually a very strong argument that not vaccinating is asking for trouble.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Sofia

[X-Tryman]

14 minutes ago, Sofia said:

So a key mechanism in how vaccines work — by lowering viral load — probably contributes to reducing transmissibility

 

 

I think the information and data is changing on the fly now.

 

[Tbs77]

So if more adults took the vaccine initially, would one be able to conclude/ theorize that this would’ve mitigated a variant (Delta) that is becoming more prone to make children sick? Then is the Lambda variant going to more deadly to children?

Sincerely curious….
Agape

[Shawnster]

.

New research showed that vaccinated people infected with the Delta variant carry tremendous amounts of the virus in the nose and throat, she said in an email responding to questions from The New York Times.

 

The finding contradicts what scientists had observed in vaccinated people infected with previous versions of the virus, who mostly seemed incapable of infecting others.

 

That conclusion dealt Americans a heavy blow: People with so-called breakthrough infections — cases that occur despite full vaccination — of the Delta variant may be just as contagious as unvaccinated people, even if they have no symptoms.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/health/covid-cdc-delta-masks.html

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Tbs77 said:

So if more adults took the vaccine initially, would one be able to conclude/ theorize that this would’ve mitigated a variant (Delta) that is becoming more prone to make children sick? Then is the Lambda variant going to more deadly to children?

Sincerely curious….
Agape

I don't think that's necessarily how variants work.  I mean, Lambda could be more deadly to children, or it could not.  My understanding is variants are just that - variants.  Lambda may be different than Delta in some other way

[runner92]

2 hours ago, X-Tryman said:

 

 

I think the information and data is changing on the fly now.

 

 

 

This is about to turn into a mess. It was rushed and they don't really know what they're doing either. This really is just one big experiment I feel. Again, I'm waiting this one out. 

Edited July 30, 2021 by runner92

[Tbs77]

 
 
This is about to turn into a mess. It was rushed and they don't really know what they're doing either. This really is just one big experiment I feel. Again, I'm waiting this one out. 

That’s the thing! Those that are vaccinated may be carrying a higher load and spreading it easily to the unvaccinated. That’s why people that are vaxxed are not being empathetic to those that aren’t vaxxed and don’t want to care!

Now they are saying that the Delta virus is as contagious as the chicken pox.

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/07/30/delta-variant-chickenpox-contagious-cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-provincetown-cluster/?amp

This is going to get crazier.

Be safe!
Agape

[Bob]

1 hour ago, Tbs77 said:

That’s the thing! Those that are vaccinated may be carrying a higher load and spreading it easily to the unvaccinated. That’s why people that are vaxxed are not being empathetic to those that aren’t vaxxed and don’t want to care!

Now they are saying that the Delta virus is as contagious as the chicken pox.

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/07/30/delta-variant-chickenpox-contagious-cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-provincetown-cluster/?amp

This is going to get crazier.

Be safe!
Agape

The reason this has gotten “crazier” is because people are panicking. 
 

The focus has shifted from deaths and hospitalizations (which are more important) to pure case numbers (which by themselves are not the most important).

 

This time last year in the US, there were 68,972 case and 1866 deaths. 
 

Yesterday in the US there were 92,485 cases and 398 deaths. 
 

If people look at things in context and stay calm, it won’t get crazy. 
 

But fear has set in which is saddening to me. 

[vern]

so....   originally  it was the flatten the curve.

over the counter drugs been in use for decades were poo/poo'd and people were put on ventilators.

the young had a very low chance if any to seriously get hurt.

corona virus in and of itself is not new. 

 

"vaccine"  not actually a vaccine we rushed as experimental use on billions of poeple.

the "vaccine" does not give immunity.?!!

they want you to do booster shots now....

the mask and social distancing will always be being pushed on poeple now.

we are only into 6 months as change since the "vaccine was pushed on everyone.

Naturally immunity lasts a life time... so whats infecting poeple now?  and why?  (vaccine?)

we were suppose to get to Heard immunity... not everyone vaccinated....

vaccines are pre infection not post infection.

 

don't we remember the percentage of people needed to be immune to gain effective heard immunity?... why is 100% vaccination being pushed?

If children are so low in ability to get hurt with the wild virus why hurt them with a vaccine.

 

If corona virus isn't new most will have natural immunity already...

If this virus is "new"  how did it get new?

 

The warp speed approval for this experimental vaccine obtained very cold deep freeze storage....  look up medical deep freeze  and why they do it and you find that its for long storage purposes.... why would they need to long storage deep freeze a new "vaccine"....  that they had no time to research and approve?

 

look up crona virus animal trials and what happened to the animals after testing them with wild virus they were suppose to "vaccine" against and they all died from over exagerated responses and died.

 

They had treatments that were highly effective but put the on the unpproved list.... why?

 

yes complication into covid 19 is possible....  covid 19 is not the invection... corona virus in the infection;  covid 19 is the dangerous complication some get.  much like HIV and AIDS....  aids is the end stage disease.

 

 

again originaly only the older and already sick were in danger of "covid" 19 complications.

 

which there is pre covid 19 treatments that can be used that doctors are being told not to use.

 

 

why?

 

[Sofia]

5 hours ago, X-Tryman said:

 

 

I think the information and data is changing on the fly now.

 

Yes 

one day say one thing

the other day say totally different

its frustrating 

how come so many contradictory facts?

it’s unbelievable how these last couple of days us is urging people

making all so serious so scary

 

even paying 100€ To be vaccinated

 

this is weird…

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, Shawnster said:

.

New research showed that vaccinated people infected with the Delta variant carry tremendous amounts of the virus in the nose and throat, she said in an email responding to questions from The New York Times.

 

The finding contradicts what scientists had observed in vaccinated people infected with previous versions of the virus, who mostly seemed incapable of infecting others.

 

That conclusion dealt Americans a heavy blow: People with so-called breakthrough infections — cases that occur despite full vaccination — of the Delta variant may be just as contagious as unvaccinated people, even if they have no symptoms.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/30/health/covid-cdc-delta-masks.html

Yeah

i read that today

so different from the previous said at cdc website

vaccinated could resume normal life

 

no matter what we are never updated 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

2 hours ago, Tbs77 said:

This is going to get crazier.

Yes

but I strong believe that this pandemic will reach an abrupt end soon

[Sofia]

3 hours ago, Shawnster said:

I don't think that's necessarily how variants work.  I mean, Lambda could be more deadly to children, or it could not.  My understanding is variants are just that - variants.  Lambda may be different than Delta in some other way

Today WHO explained it’s not deadlier to kids

its dangerous to the most exposed

the no vaccinated and the not previously affected 

 

the ones outside unprotected get it

4 hours ago, Tbs77 said:

So if more adults took the vaccine initially, would one be able to conclude/ theorize that this would’ve mitigated a variant (Delta) that is becoming more prone to make children sick? Then is the Lambda variant going to more deadly to children?

Sincerely curious….
Agape

The unprotected will likely catch any variant some day

[trottigy]

Obviously some have their concerns.

 

IT's interesting, I have a physical therapists who is very religious - I mean VERY! We have some very good scriptural discussions at times. And she mentioned Romans 13 when President Trump was president and how important it is for everyone to listen to him.

 

But now Biden is President and I mention Romans 13 and the tune changes. 

She doesn't see why he needs to be listened to as she feel he doesn't make any sense.

 

Well, isn't this at the very heart of being a Christian - we obey Biblical commands ESPECIALLY when they are hard! When we don't understand WHY we are required to do something its hard to comply. But a true Christian does it anyway!

 

We will keep complying with the guidelines REGARDLESS of whether we agree or they make sense as we KNOW how to be submissive to the superior authorities (or as the NIV says "governing authorities" - I'm looking at the wording of the translations she uses now more. That way when I quote a passage she is more apt to recognize it.)

[dove]

This is directed mainly to the elderly, but Much information for all and both viewpoints, pro and con...long

 

betterhealthwhileaging.activehosted

 

 

[dove]

6 hours ago, Dove said:

This is directed mainly to the elderly, but Much information for all and both viewpoints, pro and con...long

 

betterhealthwhileaging.activehosted

 

Could  someone make that link one you can just click on to open

thank you 

[Bob]

7 hours ago, trottigy said:

Obviously some have their concerns.

 

IT's interesting, I have a physical therapists who is very religious - I mean VERY! We have some very good scriptural discussions at times. And she mentioned Romans 13 when President Trump was president and how important it is for everyone to listen to him.

 

But now Biden is President and I mention Romans 13 and the tune changes. 

She doesn't see why he needs to be listened to as she feel he doesn't make any sense.

 

Well, isn't this at the very heart of being a Christian - we obey Biblical commands ESPECIALLY when they are hard! When we don't understand WHY we are required to do something its hard to comply. But a true Christian does it anyway!

 

We will keep complying with the guidelines REGARDLESS of whether we agree or they make sense as we KNOW how to be submissive to the superior authorities (or as the NIV says "governing authorities" - I'm looking at the wording of the translations she uses now more. That way when I quote a passage she is more apt to recognize it.)

I am sort of playing devils advocate here, but a brother told me that since the CDC recommended masking for the vaccinated, we must obey the “superior authority” and do it anyway regardless of State regulations. 

 

This is an honest question. Not a “gotcha question”: If the CDC were to say no masking for the vaccinated, but your state Governor has a mask mandate for the vaccinated, do we listen to the CDC? 
 

Because he told me that the CDC is the “superior authority” that we should obey (my State doesn’t require or recommend masks). 
 

This prompted my post I think the other day in which I compared the CDC with a doctor who can really recommend you to do something, not mandate it. 
 

Or must we obey recommendations that are not mandates? 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Bob

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Bob said:

This is an honest question. Not a “gotcha question”: If the CDC were to say no masking for the vaccinated, but your state Governor has a mask mandate for the vaccinated, do we listen to the CDC? 
 

Because he told me that the CDC is the “superior authority” that we should obey (my State doesn’t require or recommend masks). 

Im sure you understand the brother is mistaken. The CDC is not an authority.  It is the "Center for Disease Control."  It is a federal agency, but it is not an authority in the sense of requiring obedience.  The CDC does not issue orders. 

 

The CDC informs the superior authorities. It assists and advised said authorities.   Hence, one cannot point to anything that says "CDC orders.". The only action the CDC makes is recommendations. 

 

1 hour ago, Bob said:

Or must we obey recommendations that are not mandates? 

Recommendations cannot be obeyed because they are not mandates.  They are not orders.  Recommendations can only be followed because they are only advise.   You can't square a circle. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Shawnster

[vern]

Gods things to God......

 

I.m sure our life is Gods things.

[califlorican]

12 hours ago, vern said:

 

"vaccine"  not actually a vaccine we rushed as experimental use on billions of poeple.

the "vaccine" does not give immunity.?!!

they want you to do booster shots now....

the mask and social distancing will always be being pushed on poeple now.

we are only into 6 months as change since the "vaccine was pushed on everyone.

Naturally immunity lasts a life time... so whats infecting poeple now?  and why?  (vaccine?)

we were suppose to get to Heard immunity... not everyone vaccinated....

vaccines are pre infection not post infection.

 

don't we remember the percentage of people needed to be immune to gain effective heard immunity?... why is 100% vaccination being pushed?

If children are so low in ability to get hurt with the wild virus why hurt them with a vaccine.

 

If corona virus isn't new most will have natural immunity already...

If this virus is "new"  how did it get new?

 

The warp speed approval for this experimental vaccine obtained very cold deep freeze storage....  look up medical deep freeze  and why they do it and you find that its for long storage purposes.... why would they need to long storage deep freeze a new "vaccine"....  that they had no time to research and approve?

 

look up crona virus animal trials and what happened to the animals after testing them with wild virus they were suppose to "vaccine" against and they all died from over exagerated responses and died.

 

They had treatments that were highly effective but put the on the unpproved list.... why?

 

yes complication into covid 19 is possible....  covid 19 is not the invection... corona virus in the infection;  covid 19 is the dangerous complication some get.  much like HIV and AIDS....  aids is the end stage disease.

 

 

again originaly only the older and already sick were in danger of "covid" 19 complications.

 

which there is pre covid 19 treatments that can be used that doctors are being told not to use.

 

 

why?

 

Brother, I’m not sure if these are rhetorical questions or not. But if I can just answer a few:

 

Originally it was thought that COVID-19 was not much of a risk to most healthy children. Now with the variants, that has changed. This virus is mutating. This is why it’s so important to “get ahead of it”, so to speak (even though we really haven’t been able to due to other factors, sadly).

 

As I mentioned before, the vaccine’s biggest protection is against severe hospitalization and death. Even the Governing Body has stated that the vaccine does provide a higher measure of protection! I know you may not trust the secular authorities, but we all trust the GB has prayed and PRAYED for guidance on how to handle this, and it seems that they trust the medical experts.

The vaccine was developed so quickly because a) they had all the resources and none of the red tape they usually work with and b) the technology was already there. There’s no conspiracy here! That’s just the power of unlimited funds and thousands of people working to get it done.

 

Also, immunity does not always last a lifetime, and other vaccines require boosters. I had to have a second chicken pox vaccine as an adult, and tetanus is supposed to be redone every 10 years. Jehovah has created our bodies to be amazing at many things, but sadly our immune systems aren’t perfect, so they do need a “boost” at times. 
 

I’m not trying to tell anyone to get the vaccine by the way, just trying to clear up some things! And maybe our resident virus expert can correct anything I may have gotten wrong 😄

[carlos]

19 hours ago, Tbs77 said:

That’s the thing! Those that are vaccinated may be carrying a higher load and spreading it easily to the unvaccinated. That’s why people that are vaxxed are not being empathetic to those that aren’t vaxxed and don’t want to care!

That is a misunderstanding, Tracey. Those vaccinated are not carrying a higher load and spreading it to the unvaccinated. With previous variants of the virus, those vaccinated didn't catch it at all or if they did to a very small degree. That's a good thing. With this Delta variant, there is no difference. You are as contagious whether vaccinated or not. It's not higher for those vaccinated.

 

That is, the vaccine doesn't have an effect on transmission of the Delta variant. But still, those who are vaccinated will not get seriously sick. If the whole population were vaccinated, this whole pandemic would be over. The virus would still be among us, but it would be like the flu. People would catch it occasionally and some would spend a couple days in bed until they recover and that's it. But since many people refuse to take the vaccine, this pandemic will last much longer.

[AH173]

As with all living organisms, they will change and adapt to live.

 

If a vast majority of the population will not get vaccinated, in the short run it won't matter. All this back and forth - whether to get the vaccine or not - will pale in comparison to studies like this. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/health/vaccination-alone-variants-study/index.html

 

This study suggests that all the time that vaccinated ones who don't mask up  in confined areas and social distance will bring about /develop a vaccine resistant (if it's not here already) covid virus. 

 

The unvaccinated and vaccinated won't have to have anything to debate then. 

 

The time to act would probably be over. And the world will face another plague. 

[Bob]

10 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Im sure you understand the brother is mistaken. The CDC is not an authority.  It is the "Center for Disease Control."  It is a federal agency, but it is not an authority in the sense of requiring obedience.  The CDC does not issue orders. 

 

The CDC informs the superior authorities. It assists and advised said authorities.   Hence, one cannot point to anything that says "CDC orders.". The only action the CDC makes is recommendations. 

 

Recommendations cannot be obeyed because they are not mandates.  They are not orders.  Recommendations can only be followed because they are only advise.   You can't square a circle. 

Understood. Good points.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Bob

[trottigy]

Because of the CDC recommendations / guidance, Nevada has reinstated it's mask mandate.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/28/mask-mandate-nevada-vegas/

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by trottigy

[Bob]

2 minutes ago, trottigy said:

Because of the CDC recommendations, Nevada has reinstated it's mask mandate.

Well, it’s not a blanket mandate at least. Depends on the county.

 

I know the weather is nice. I’ve been to Vegas twice in 2009 and 2019. Loved it. Will be back next summer as well.