Shooting in Paris

[New World Explorer]

Guns are not bad, many brothers and sisters have them. I am so tired of hearing brothers and sisters say that Jehovah's Witnesses don't have them...it's just not even close to being true!!!

I can't understand what you said ...

Brothers have guns ??????? For what purpose ?

[bohemian]

The gun thing is not just American at all, it is all over the world. That is the mindset that is so irritating that Americans are the only ones, however, people without much knowledge often feel that way. Notice the international council for Game and Wildlife Comservation

Headquarters in Hungary...not America.

This is a council for hunting and preservation. The CIC has over 1500 members in 86 countries on the 5 continents. Its membership consists of states, national and international organisations, individual members, as well as sponsors, advocates of the CIC and sustainable use around the world.The CIC also has 40 National Delegations, which are responsible for coordinating activities in their respective countries.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Council_for_Game_and_Wildlife_ConservationI

It is not the same everywhere, sister. In the UK there are strict gun cntrols; yes you can have agun subject to strict rules and licensing. It must be kept locked away in a case sufficiently strong to deter theft. Only certain weapons are allowed and only for specific purposes. There is no such thing as "I have the right to carry a gun, period!" As the gun lobby in the USA states regularly.

Most other countries are the same.

You keep referring to hunting but we are talking about having guns in the pocket or otherwise on our persons at other times, such as having a drink in a bar, eating at a restaurant, or listening to a concert (the type of music is immaterial).

[Pavlos]

I like very much that Governing Body published in jw.org's home page, in "Featured" category, the article "Bad Things Happen to Good People—Why?".

So useful for our ministry nowadays!

[Tbs77]

Edit: Sorry wanted to post under Andre rule post 170.

I believe there is something similar in one of the reports on JW Broadcasting. Can't remember which one though.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Tbs77

[Trina]

I can't understand what you said ...

Brothers have guns ??????? For what purpose ?

Yes!!! surprise...many brothers and sisters have guns for more than one reason, could be to protect against wild animals, or to hunt. But YES MANY good brothers and sisters with privileges even elders in areas of the world have guns. Again, those who live in cities have a misunderstanding of their use and need and that's ok but don't judge it's common in many places to have them.

This does not mean they would use them on another human or even have that as a thought.

[ChocoBro]

Yes!!! surprise...many brothers and sisters have guns for more than one reason, could be to protect against wild animals, or to hunt. But YES MANY good brothers and sisters with privileges even elders in areas of the world have guns. Again, those who live in cities have a misunderstanding of their use and need and that's ok but don't judge it's common in many places to have them.

This does not mean they would use them on another human or even have that as a thought.

 

If my job was to preach like those brothers up in Alaska that travel around the remotest places with an airplane, I'd want to carry a heavy calibre revolver myself (given I was allowed to do so of course). Wouldn't want to encounter an angry mamma bear without the slightest chance of making it back home in one piece.

 

Sure you can pray and rely on Jehovah instead if you like. Good luck with that! There's a reason disciples in Jesus day carried a sword on their travels.

 

Anyway, think we should move this discussion elsewhere, since this thread is about the Paris attacks and I think we can all agree regularly carrying live arms to deal with the threat of terrorism is not an option for us.

[New World Explorer]

Yes!!! surprise...many brothers and sisters have guns for more than one reason, could be to protect against wild animals, or to hunt. But YES MANY good brothers and sisters with privileges even elders in areas of the world have guns. Again, those who live in cities have a misunderstanding of their use and need and that's ok but don't judge it's common in many places to have them.

This does not mean they would use them on another human or even have that as a thought.

Thank you for explaining !

[Trina]

Brother Ruben said it perfectly!!! Thank you brother. That is exactly what I meant. And none of the brothers and sisters that have a gun that I know of would ever carry them regularly for no reason or to fight terrorism as you stated. Enough said...

[Old]

I can't understand what you said ...

Brothers have guns ??????? For what purpose ?

Where I live the majority have guns in their homes. For the most part they are for hunting, some have pistols.

I have only heard one brother suggest his was for protection, though I think this could be in the back of the mind for others. Pistols have a way of granting a feel of empowerment which I find conflicting.

Though I no longer have my hunting rifles, I am too old to be afield, I do own a pistol which I would never  consider using for self defense, it is an antique, the ammuniton for it is about a hundred years old. 

(Come to think of it, if I was hard pressed and the bad guy got down on his knees, and was facing away from me, and was very still, I could bop him on the head with it, or I could just limp away like mad!  )

[bohemian]

Well, my conscience didn't allow me to put the French flag on my profile pic. I thought that would be the same as raising the French flag out on my window... There are other ways to show we are saddened for all the killing happening in the world (And I don't mean just this massacre) without using an idolatry symbol....

Besides I would have to be changing the pic everyday...

Ro 8:22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now.

Interesting post on facebook from a worldly person:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-34833218

[Friends just call me Ross]

Interesting post on facebook from a worldly person:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-34833218

 

Wouldn't you just love to call on her in the door-to-door work?  

 

[Jodievt]

The grand mofti of Australia has blamed islamaphobia for the Paris shootings. Very decisive words. News media calling the leader of australian muslim leader out of touch

[Miss Bea]

My husband has guns. After he caught me chasing range animals off the property with a broom, he told me I had to learn to use a gun. The bears. They were breaking into houses, and I ended up not being able to come home without my husband with me. He shot it. Poor thing. The bear was breaking into our dog food when he had plenty of berries and apples, just around our property.

Plus we have have had cows, horses, and the worst, pigs invade our place. A herd of pigs. With curved tusks. Ill mannered. I asked him to load something I could actually fire. Then, I went and told the owners of the pigs I had the right to protect myself or the dogs. With a gun, if necessary. I came home and there the pigs were. i fired that gun into the hillside until it had no bullets left. I knew the sound would go to the neighbors. We never fire guns, so it got their attention. They penned up the poor pigs. Baptized, and they come to the hall, mind you.

I did get mysef a wrist rocket. A powerful sling shot. Got so I could hit a horse on the rump. They got the message. Were not welcome here.

But, it is hard. Like Sid said, what would you do if a mountain lion was carrying off one of our dogs.

We have guns. And we are Indian. That means we can hunt any time of the year on the reservation. But we have decided as long as we can buy meat, we are not going to kill animals for food.

Even in our congregation, some are aghast at the thought any in the congregation might own a gun. But, to me it is a conscious matter. If I lived in the city, and did not hunt, I don't think owning guns would even be a part of a thought pattern. I hate the things. I look foreward to the time when they do not exist, period.

[Hope]

Sister Bea - I believe that much is understood.  Hunting for food is proper, in my opinion.  

 

It's the idea that regular people should walk around armed, open-carrying semi-automatics into restaurants, concerts, sporting arenas, schools - ready to defend themselves.  "Good guys with guns" and all that rot.    That's the peculiarly American, Wild West mind-set that is so offensive to so many.

 

That's the sort of gun carrying Trump is spouting off about.

[hatcheckgirl]

The sad reality is, does anyone really think that having a gun can stop those wearing suicide vests, holding hand grenades and now rocket launchers?  It would be pure luck if you could shoot them before they explode themselves.  After all, how do they get into the markets, near population centres like concerts and restaurants?  They blend in to the surroundings until they are ready to kill themselves and all others nearby. 

 

Imagine the trigger fingers which fire at any suspicious person, perhaps an innocent person putting his hand into his vest to take out a phone, not a gun?  We know how scared and jittery the people in Paris are now. Or those in Beirut who can't even go to the market out of fear? Or all those living in other war-torn places? Imagine if they armed themselves to "protect" themselves?  What pure anarchy would result!

 

Perhaps this is what will happen during the last gasp before Jehovah ends it.  He has told us not to take up the sword, so we don't.  The issue Catrina brought up regarding guns for witnesses is not relevant here, as we understand that there is a need for guns when you live on the land.  Even Australia with its very strict gun laws allows farmers to own guns.  So no brother or sister should have to legitimise their owning a gun to us.

 

However, the strong gun lobby and the politicians who back it are really stupid in their simplistic approach.  Jesus said that "when someone stronger than he is comes against him and conquers him, that man takes away all his weapons in which he was trusting" so we know that personal gun protection is a very limited protection anyway (Luke 11:22) .  In their feeble mind these ones think they can solve the world by shooting the bad guys.  They've been watching too many shoot-em up movies.

[ChocoBro]

Aaaah stop it's turning into a second amendment thread with a secondary threat of becoming a meat thread. We don't need that here. Nooooooooo

[Trina]

Sadly it's the mindset of many all over the world...not just the Wild West Americans. In the U.S. and around the world, even with all those gun laws in place bad people will find them. That is the sad state in which the world has gotten to under satans rule.

Guns are not the only weapons either, knives are in everyone's hand and they are used to kill much more than guns don't forget the beheadings and even police attacks in the news. But that is how Satan rules. Everything and anything can be used for bad if you have that in your heart. People who learn to fight with their hands and end up in a fight with another person are held to the same legal repercussions as someone wielding a gun, it is considered a lethal weapon. Same with using your car to hurt someone and they die, your car is considered a lethal weapon.

I'm not sure where sister Uani is from but it seems Americans have been looked down upon there or in her family. The majority of people don't walk around wearing a gun in the U.S. The people that do are usually military, ex- military, off duty police, security people, officers at public schools, detectives, other government authorities. I don't think I can remember seeing someone just walking in the market with one strapped on. Maybe you have watched too many western movies. Lol.

[Trina]

Oh and I made a comment again before I saw your comment...we need another thread for this....☺️

[Hope]

Sadly it's the mindset of many all over the world...not just the Wild West Americans. In the U.S. and around the world, even with all those gun laws in place bad people will find them. That is the sad state in which the world has gotten to under satans rule.

Guns are not the only weapons either, knives are in everyone's hand and they are used to kill much more than guns don't forget the beheadings and even police attacks in the news. But that is how Satan rules. Everything and anything can be used for bad if you have that in your heart. People who learn to fight with their hands and end up in a fight with another person are held to the same legal repercussions as someone wielding a gun, it is considered a lethal weapon. Same with using your car to hurt someone and they die, your car is considered a lethal weapon.

I'm not sure where sister Uani is from but it seems Americans have been looked down upon there or in her family. The majority of people don't walk around wearing a gun in the U.S. The people that do are usually military, ex- military, off duty police, security people, officers at public schools, detectives, other government authorities. I don't think I can remember seeing someone just walking in the market with one strapped on. Maybe you have watched too many western movies. Lol.

 

I was born and raised in the Chicago area, I live near Portland, OR now.  My perception of how Americans are regarded by others comes from reading a lot of foreign news site... and news sources here in the US who don't appreciate the easy access of handguns and other weapons with no training, insurance, anything really required.  So many school shootings, that movie theater in Arizona, other things in the news..    Hearing politicians and others in power, the obnoxious vocality of the gun lobby suggesting that the solution the violence is to arm even more people, including school teachers.  The ability to open or conceal carry firearms is lauded by many here in the States... and seeing them strapped on in a market (Starbucks, Target, etc.) is a fairly recent phenomenon.  And I don't watch Westerns... 

 

It's tragic, frightening... and I'll be SO glad when it's over.  

Edited November 16, 2015 by Hope

[Trina]

Sister Uani now I see what your saying...I agree most definitely. It is tragic that humans need any weapons for anything and I look forward to Jehovah and his son turn those swords into plowshares. Hopefully we are close to that happening very very soon!

[Tbs77]

I was born and raised in the Chicago area, I live near Portland, OR now. My perception of how Americans are regarded by others comes from reading a lot of foreign news site... and news sources here in the US who don't appreciate the easy access of handguns and other weapons with no training, insurance, anything really required. So many school shootings, that movie theater in Arizona, other things in the news.. Hearing politicians and others in power, the obnoxious vocality of the gun lobby suggesting that the solution the violence is to arm even more people, including school teachers. The ability to open or conceal carry firearms is lauded by many here in the States... and seeing them strapped on in a market (Starbucks, Target, etc.) is a fairly recent phenomenon. And I don't watch Westerns...

It's tragic, frightening... and I'll be SO glad when it's over.

FYI.... Movie theater shooting took place in Aurora, Colorado 2012 not Arizona.

There has been two since that made headlines in USA: Lafayette, Louisiana July 23, 2015 and Nashville, Tennessee August 5, 2015. autocorrect messes up my messaging too.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Tbs77

[Qapla]

Next thing you know, someone will bring up beards

[Tbs77]

UN Security Council tribute to Victims

Paris and Beirut.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/jocs6AFHqHQ

Edited November 17, 2015 by Tbs77

[Old]

Next thing you know, someone will bring up beards

You said it!

Yes, the suspected ringleader has a beard.

Does this have great import? or do we have the ability to drop it right here?

[timpin]

at what point did this go O T ?