DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[GeordieGirl]

It's certainly a long day today compared with last week.  Coming up to 7 hours so far. 

[Dages]

3 minutes ago, jayrtom said:

16:54
 The examination of the witnesses of the Ministry of Justice continues.  The testimony is given by a former Jehovah's Witness, Pavel Zverev. 
 

 

 

 

Almost an hour later and just a sentence...

 

As expected. It's great. They know many brothers and sisters are reading.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Dages

[DinaG.]

2 minutes ago, jayrtom said:

16:54
 The examination of the witnesses of the Ministry of Justice continues.  The testimony is given by a former Jehovah's Witness, Pavel Zverev. 
 

 

 

 

Almost an hour later and just a sentence...

 

Thanks to Jehovah! I don't want to listen what they say. Brothers protect us. Definitely.

[sunshine]

Good move, we don't need to hear their lies.

[Iron Stylus]

2 minutes ago, GeordieGirl said:

It's certainly a long day today compared with last week.  Coming up to 7 hours so far. 

Yeah no day has gone beyond 5:13 Russian time and this day started earlier than Day 2. So it should be adjourned pretty soon here.

[Iron Stylus]

13 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Good move, we don't need to hear their lies.

Thanks for your simplified version. Are you translating into French first then English or just English?

[Araujo JW]

It may be the wrong idea, but even so I'm anxious to know what sort of of failing arguing the accusatory witnesses could invent ... And how that could change the direction of judgment.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Araujo JW

[Dages]

3 minutes ago, Araujo JW said:

It may be the wrong idea, but even so I'm anxious to know what sort of stuck arguing the witnesses against him invent... And how that could change the direction of judgment.

You don't need to taste, or imagine the taste of poop to know that it will stink and be bad for your health. 

[Bushel]

1 minute ago, Araujo JW said:

It may be the wrong idea, but even so I'm anxious to know what sort of stuck arguing the witnesses against him invent... And how that could change the direction of judgment.

I agree to a small extent, It be nice to know. But at same time Just how much damage could it do to our own spirituallity. I am thinking about the ones there in the court having to listen to such gibberish, It really can be a struggle to have to deal with such gibberish. 

[rocket]

3 minutes ago, Araujo JW said:

It may be the wrong idea, but even so I'm anxious to know what sort of of failing arguing the accusatory witnesses could invent ... And how that could change the direction of judgment.

 

 

I am sure that is probably all the media will be interested in.  ABC, CBS, NBC, BBC

[jayrtom]

9 minutes ago, Araujo JW said:

It may be the wrong idea, but even so I'm anxious to know what sort of of failing arguing the accusatory witnesses could invent ... And how that could change the direction of judgment.

 

I don't know how common is this name in Russia, but there's a Pavel Zverev related to one of the first judicial cases in Russia due to the military service around 1995... (maybe the year bokk talks about him. If it's the same he knows what it is trying to defend himself against biased governments who just want to shut you down - Anyway he won at the time.

 

 

 

Almost 18H00 in Russia and nothing more... a lot of lies are flying around the flies....

Edited April 12, 2017 by jayrtom

[sunshine]

9 minutes ago, Iron Stylus said:

Thanks for your simplified version. Are you translating into French first then English or just English?

Oh Brother Jeremy, I'm not translating at all. I'm just copying from google chrome that is translating the jw-russia page ... you can do it too.  

 

here

https://jw-russia.org/pages/17040614-132.html

 

I'm just simplifying the English a little (English is my native language, not French).

 

 

[timpin]

Who's Online   97 Members, 0 Anonymous, 136 Guests (See full list)

https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://jw-russia.org/news/17040510-129.html

 

I wonder who's got more?   

 

to be continued tomorrow   ...  

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by timpin

[Iron Stylus]

6 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Oh Brother Jeremy, I'm not translating at all. I'm just copying from google chrome that is translating the jw-russia page ... you can do it too.  

 

here

https://jw-russia.org/pages/17040614-132.html

 

I'm just simplifying the English a little (English is my native language, not French).

 

 

Yeah I am following along on the jw Russian site. I have simplified the first 3 days already. But Google doesn't give a perfect translation. I used several translation programs to help with the grammar. Chrome made some mistakes that Internet Explorer did not make last week but apparently they clarified a lot of them I just now see.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Iron Stylus

[Araujo JW]

12 minutes ago, rocket said:

 

I am sure that is probably all the media will be interested in.  ABC, CBS, NBC, BBC

Deuteronomy 23: 5 ... who knows?

[Skye]

Reminded me of what made the 10 spies unsuccessful....they reported things that made the Israelites fearful and faint-hearted.

 

Our brothers are like Joshua and Caleb! We only need to know what is beneficial. And upbuilding.

[sunshine]

I was thinking of other bible examples where Jehovah's people have been asked to just wait - be patient without necessarily knowing how things are going... the Israelites at the base of Mount Zion, Sinai ... they lost patience and said "We don't know what's happened to Moses for all we know he could have tripped and fallen of a cliff, a mountain bear could have eaten him" (I am of course paraphrasing ...lol) or the Israelites being told to go into their Interior rooms.  

 

Of course in both cases they had been informed of the outcome and it could only be good, but in a way, its the same here.  If there is a gross injustice, the world will take note, you can bet the Othodox church will ensure its front page on  every newspaper in Russia - what will that do for honest hearted people that are not blind to the hypocrasy of it all?  As well as people in some little village that hadn't heard of us but now are curious?  And if we win... apostate lies will be so inconsequential that we won't care what they said.   In any case the slave has one concern only, ensuring the well being of the family and listening to apostates is frustrating and discouraging.  

 

So we need not worry, just so that our Lawyer brothers don't feel obliged to throw their electronic tablets to the ground shattering them like Moses  because when they see us we've panicked and lost faith during the long wait for information  (I know that will never happen).

 

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by sunshine

[Bluebell]

18:11	The Court of Justice welcomes the last witness, V.V.Koretskogo.

[jayrtom]

Interrogating witness Koretsky, the court drew attention to the fact that she uses personal records while giving evidence. Lawyer Omelchenko asked how to explain the similarity of the formulations from her notes with texts from the site of the well-known anti-sectarian center. The court decided to read Koretsky's notes later.

Interrogating witness Zverev, the court is interested: "If you are harmed, did you contact the competent authorities on this matter?" The witness did not apply. Zverev said that under the influence of the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses he personally felt hatred for the clergy of the Orthodox religion. The witness denies that he is in anti-cult organizations, although he met and photographed with the most famous "sectologist".

Witness of the Ministry of Justice Petrova, a former Jehovah's Witness. In 1983, when she became a Witness of Jehovah, she left her work connected with the propaganda of military heroism, as this does not correspond to the belief of Jehovah's Witnesses. In 2009, she left the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. As an example of the extremist activities of the Management Center, the witness cites the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses exclude those who commit sins from their ranks. (The court asked the representative of the Ministry of Justice what are the arguments of the Justice Ministry, confirmed in the testimony of this witness?) The Ministry of Justice again speaks about a possible threat to an uncertain circle of persons.) On the question of the court, whether witness Petrov saw that someone spread extremist literature, a witness Replies that she did not see.
 

18:11
The court invites the last witness of the Ministry of Justice, V.Koretsky.

 

 

Apparently the last paragraph is wrongly placed at the end but it is like that on the site...

 

How I think it should be:

 

16:54
 The examination of the witnesses of the Ministry of Justice continues.  The testimony is given by a former Jehovah's Witness, Pavel Zverev

Interrogating witness Zverev, the court is interested: "If you are harmed, did you contact the competent authorities on this matter?" The witness did not apply. Zverev said that under the influence of the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses he personally felt hatred for the clergy of the Orthodox religion. The witness denies that he is in anti-cult organizations, although he met and photographed with the most famous "sectologist".

 

18:11
The court invites the last witness of the Ministry of Justice, V.Koretsky.

Interrogating witness Koretsky, the court drew attention to the fact that she uses personal records while giving evidence. Lawyer Omelchenko asked how to explain the similarity of the formulations from her notes with texts from the site of the well-known anti-sectarian center. The court decided to read Koretsky's notes later.

Witness of the Ministry of Justice Petrova, a former Jehovah's Witness. In 1983, when she became a Witness of Jehovah, she left her work connected with the propaganda of military heroism, as this does not correspond to the belief of Jehovah's Witnesses. In 2009, she left the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. As an example of the extremist activities of the Management Center, the witness cites the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses exclude those who commit sins from their ranks. (The court asked the representative of the Ministry of Justice what are the arguments of the Justice Ministry, confirmed in the testimony of this witness?) The Ministry of Justice again speaks about a possible threat to an uncertain circle of persons.) On the question of the court, whether witness Petrov saw that someone spread extremist literature, a witness Replies that she did not see.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by jayrtom

[Dages]

It's a little bit confusing to see "witness" in this paragraph, hehe... they are witnesses for the court, but not Jehovah's witnesses.

 

The court announces a break until April 19, 2017 10:00.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Dages

[jayrtom]

18:30

 In 2009, Koretsky left the ranks of Jehovah's Witnesses.  The judge asks if his knowledge of Jehovah's Witnesses is limited in 2009.  Witness: yes.  The Ministry of Justice asks the witness to explain that he knows about the attitude of Jehovah's Witnesses to higher education, to state symbols.  The court asks the representative of the Ministry of Justice: "If you do not specify these points in the grounds of the claim, why do we need to find out?" The representative of the Ministry of Justice: "The question is removed."  On the question of the court whether Koretsky is interested in the outcome of the case, he answers briefly: "Yes."

 The court announces a break until April 19, 2017 10:00.
 

 

 

[sunshine]

Wednesday evening - SIMPLIFIED

 

 

16"54  Our (?) Lawyer Master Lew pointed out that their first ex-witness used nearly the exact same words as on a famous anti-sect site. Are these really her own words?

(The Judge said he'd check that out later)

 

The Judge asked the second ex-witness:  If you were "harmed" by witnesses, did you report the incident to the authorities.  No reply.  The second ex-witness said he personally suffered because being a witness he  hated  the Orthodox Church.  He denies he is currently part of an anti-witness/anti-sect organizations although there are pictures that imply that he is.  This witness goes on to say that we are extremist because we disfellowhip sinners.   The Judge asks the MoJ if he is claming this is a threat to the public?  The judge asked this last ex-witness if he personally saw Witnesses distributing banned literature.  He did not.

 

18"30  Their Lawyers  ask the other ex-witness to explain the Witness position on Higher Education and Saluting the flag but the Judge wont allow the questions as they are not related to this case about being extremists.  They ask the ex-witness if she is interested in this case, she says yes.

 

 

END OF SESSION - Back on the 19th April.

Edited April 12, 2017 by sunshine

[shali]

Personally, it doesn't sound to me like these "ex-witnesses" did much harm.  There was no proof of extremist activities.  The one sited that he felt personal hatred toward the Orthodox clergy- you certainly can't control how a person may feel.  Hopefully the court will see that.  

[Iron Stylus]

26 minutes ago, jayrtom said:

Interrogating witness Koretsky, the court drew attention to the fact that she uses personal records while giving evidence. Lawyer Omelchenko asked how to explain the similarity of the formulations from her notes with texts from the site of the well-known anti-sectarian center. The court decided to read Koretsky's notes later.

Interrogating witness Zverev, the court is interested: "If you are harmed, did you contact the competent authorities on this matter?" The witness did not apply. Zverev said that under the influence of the literature of Jehovah's Witnesses he personally felt hatred for the clergy of the Orthodox religion. The witness denies that he is in anti-cult organizations, although he met and photographed with the most famous "sectologist".

Witness of the Ministry of Justice Petrova, a former Jehovah's Witness. In 1983, when she became a Witness of Jehovah, she left her work connected with the propaganda of military heroism, as this does not correspond to the belief of Jehovah's Witnesses. In 2009, she left the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. As an example of the extremist activities of the Management Center, the witness cites the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses exclude those who commit sins from their ranks. (The court asked the representative of the Ministry of Justice what are the arguments of the Justice Ministry, confirmed in the testimony of this witness?) The Ministry of Justice again speaks about a possible threat to an uncertain circle of persons.) On the question of the court, whether witness Petrov saw that someone spread extremist literature, a witness Replies that she did not see.
 

18:11
The court invites the last witness of the Ministry of Justice, V.Koretsky.

 

 

Apparently the last paragraph is wrongly placed at the end but it is like that on the site...

 

 

I don't think it is wrongly placed. The first witness and the last witness have the same last name Koretsky (Koretskaya) but the first is female and the last is male. Therefore, likely husband and wife who both left the truth...... I put both Russian names in a translator and got Koretskaya and  Koretskuyu. The resemblance is too much of a coincidence with Russian surnames it would seem.

 

The order of witnesses seems to be: Natalie Koretsky, Pavel Zverev, Petrova, V. Koretsky.

Edited April 12, 2017 by Iron Stylus

[EccentricM]

Here's me worrying about apostates ruining the letter campaign and they have them in the courtroom!