The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[Hugh O'D]

3 minutes ago, Bob said:

 I’ve been reading more middle to right commentary to arrive at this conclusion. 

And are these commentator's giving you ideas like

 

On 9/17/2020 at 11:55 PM, Bob said:

no one is considering that lockdowns have just delayed the spread, and now its just taking its natural course.

Because all my regular customers in my off-licence/liquor store understand that, and indeed many of them understood it was inevitable back when the Lockdown began.

[Bob]

2 minutes ago, Hugh O'D said:

And are these commentator's giving you ideas like

 

Because all my regular customers in my off-licence/liquor store understand that, and indeed many of them understood it was inevitable back when the Lockdown began.

Actually, no to be honest. I arrived at those conclusion based on common sense.

 

You lock infected people up, they don’t infect each other. You let them out to interact, they infect each other.

 

So to your point, it just makes logical sense that that would happen.

[Hugh O'D]

2 minutes ago, Bob said:

Actually, no to be honest. I arrived at those conclusion based on common sense.

 

You lock infected people up, they don’t infect each other. You let them out to interact, they infect each other.

 

So to your point, it just makes logical sense that that would happen.

You didn't read what I wrote. 

Agape Brother, it's past bedtime for me.

[Bob]

3 minutes ago, Hugh O'D said:

You didn't read what I wrote. 

Agape Brother, it's past bedtime for me.

I Probably misunderstood it. It’s fine. Sleep well.

[Old]

18 minutes ago, Bob said:

Gotcha. Its not one link, since the media hides what “leftist” governors do. Basically I’ve been reading more middle to right commentary to arrive at this conclusion. 

Good to hear, I thought you might be leaning left to right, or right to left. I appreciate your display of neutrality.

[Bob]

1 minute ago, Old said:

Good to hear, I thought you might be leaning left to right, or right to left. I appreciate your display of neutrality.

I try to stay balanced. And that’s precisely why I’ve given up on the media. They’re not balanced. 

[Old]

Just now, Bob said:

I try to stay balanced. And that’s precisely why I’ve given up on the media. They’re not balanced. 

And you support this by saying "Basically I’ve been reading more middle to right commentary to arrive at this conclusion." But not while following the media.  

[Bob]

6 minutes ago, Old said:

And you support this by saying "Basically I’ve been reading more middle to right commentary to arrive at this conclusion." But not while following the media.  

Yeah “reading” not watching. When I said “media” I’m talking about main steam TV or Cable media where you have no control over what’s covered. 
 

I mainly consume print or digital media in which I have control of what I consume.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Bob

[Bob]

@Old main stream media nowadays tends to force-feed stuff down your throat. And they do so unquestioningly. 
 

Some local media clown yesterday morning was trying to convince the world that masks work better than a vaccine. 
 

The media is simply in the tank. It’s garbage and highly political. 

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Bob said:

Is this the same imperial College that said 2.2 million Americans would die, and who’s lead Modeler got caught cheating on his wife violating coronavirus protocols, and caught COVID-19 from his mistress?

 

They have no credibility with me.

It is interesting, Bob, that you said this just after emphasizing the importance of context.  Have you examined the context of the 2.2 million statement before losing your credibility?  

 

https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths-covid-19

 

Quote

In the (unlikely) absence of any control measures or spontaneous changes in individual behavior, we would expect a peak in mortality (daily deaths) to occur after approximately 3 months. In such scenarios, given an estimated R0 of 2.4, we predict 81% of the G.B. and U.S. populations would be infected over the course of the epidemic… In total, in an unmitigated epidemic, we would predict approximately 510,000 deaths in G.B. and 2.2 million in the U.S., not accounting for the potential negative effects of health systems being overwhelmed on mortality.

 

So, according to this article that 2.2 million estimate was based on 0 health and safety precautions being implemented AND 81% of the population infected. Since every state implemented precautions, then it's possible those millions dead were avoided.  81% of the population has definitely not been infected.  

 

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Shawnster

[Bob]

8 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

It is interesting, Bob, that you said this just after emphasizing the importance of context.  Have you examined the context of the 2.2 million statement before losing your credibility?  

 

https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths-covid-19

 

 

So, according to this article that 2.2 million estimate was based on 0 health and safety precautions being implemented.  Since every state implemented precautions, then it's possible those millions dead were avoided. 

 

 

Right. The Imperial College model was based on assumptions. I posted in this thread that all models are as good as the assumptions plugged into them. All models operate this way, which is why I said I don't trust models. 

 

So I lost no credibility here. I just didn't provide the context for my objection of this model, which I should have. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Bob

[Lance]

Well Bethels and CO’s Etc are still in lockdown... that is not a political decision...

As far as the world is concerned everything has a political element in it... some of it is pure political expedience on one end to more of a human concern for the outcome of it’s population on the other....That being said... it is all Satan’s system, choose your poison ...so it is sort of a waste of time to debate, after all things considered. IMO 

[Bob]

On 9/14/2020 at 11:10 AM, Bob said:

I basically ignore predictions like that. Models are only as reliable as the assumptions they're based on. Deaths were projected at 2.2 million based on assumptions, downgraded to 240k based on assumptions, and now another doomsaying model.

 

This sort of stuff needs to stop. 

@Shawnster this is what I was referring to regarding models in general. 

[Bob]

8 minutes ago, Lance said:

Well Bethels and CO’s Etc are still in lockdown... that is not a political decision...

As far as the world is concerned everything has a political element in it... some of it is pure political expedience on one end to more of a human concern for the outcome of it’s population on the other....That being said... it is all Satan’s system, choose your poison ...so it is sort of a waste of time to debate, after all things considered. IMO 

I hear ya. To me, this is fruitful discussion bro. I really enjoy being wrong because it forces me to research what I believe and get the facts. 

[Old]

1 minute ago, Bob said:

@Shawnster this is what I was referring to regarding models in general. 

Without models we would still be comme ci, comme ca.

Similar to "Ke sera, sera," what every will be will be.

 Alfred E. Neuman folowed that lead, "What me worry?"  

[Bob]

4 minutes ago, Old said:

Without models we would still be comme ci, comme ca.

Similar to "Ke sera, sera," what every will be will be.

 Alfred E. Neuman folowed that lead, "What me worry?"  

LOOOL 

 

Good Humor. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Bob

[Ludwika]

I don't think this is now actually a "fruitful discussion". Just a personal opinion, but when things start to become a bit more of a conspiracy/political argument, rather than a factual one, I 1)start to get exasperated, 2) feel neutrality is becoming an issue. This is a virus, it's neither right or left leaning politically! Nor, I'm sure, have all these various government officials wanted to see their economies plummet during lock downs. One might as well say hurricane Sally arrived just to influence the election! So prime ministers, presidents, etc, did what they thought was right in a very difficult situation. Those decisions varied from place to place. I would, myself, have hated being in their position with the outcome of those decisions on my shoulders! Here in New Zealand, we went into level 4 lock down with a "go early, go hard" message from the government, the country saw the sense of it and got behind it. Sweden made a completely different decision. Most of the people in the hot seat did the best they could with the medical advice available at the time. Worldwide, we are following the directions from the GB. So we really need to be careful here about making statements such as "it's political". 

[Shawnster]

10 hours ago, Bob said:

 

This is political. 

 

7 hours ago, Ludwika said:

I don't think this is now actually a "fruitful discussion". Just a personal opinion, but when things start to become a bit more of a conspiracy/political argument, rather than a factual one, I 1)start to get exasperated, 2) feel neutrality is becoming an issue. This is a virus, it's neither right or left leaning politically! 

If the mask debate is a political discussion, and we are neutral in regards political discussion, then what do you Christian brothers and sisters think we should do about such debates here on jwtalk.net? Should we continue to debate the pros and cons of masks? Should we continue to complain about government overreach and control?  Do you friends want this board to be a place for political discussion? 

 

Masks are here. That is a fact.  Laws are such that we should wear masks.  Jehovah's Organization has made it clear we should go beyond the governments' minimum mandated safety precautions in regards masks and distancing.  These are all irrefutable facts. 

 

So, what is left?  What is the value of having this political discussion on our website?  I ask you all.  What is the value of continuing what you feel and freely admit is a political discussion and debate? 

[CHecker]

Our personal opinions are derived by what we see and hear, it then is filtered by how we think. If we fill our thoughts with secular news, opinions of so called professionals who, let's face it, don't have a completely clear view on this virus then we're only hypothesizing/opinionizing like the rest are.

 

I just had my safety meeting last night in regards to food distribution for today. When I first started doing this we were told that once you attend it you were good to go. But it became manditory to attend it again. I saw explicit instructions on our behavior with pictures of do's and don'ts. Mask, glove PPE.

After distributing boxes when you get home you immediately strip, scrub yourself in a long shower, glove up, take your clothing and wash on a long cycle separately. You sanitize where you had dropped your clothes, your vehicle and all door handles you touched as you entered. No discussion, no opinions. This comes from the slave who gets it from the top, Jehovah.  Go ahead and argue about your need to wear a mask with Jehovah and see where you get.

Our brothers are not trying to 'rule' us to death or deny our freedoms, we are being protected, sacred respect for life. So we can argue about masks, what demographic is heavily infected or not at all or the need to stay careful when going in public. We follow the direction of the slave who, like I said, follow what Jehovah says.

 

IMO, our obedience, as discussed in this weekend's WT, is being tested. What are we proving to our great God Jehovah? A disgruntled, argumentative, 'but, but' spirit to His direction or are we yielding to His supremacy at knowing what is best for us - mere specks on the dust patch in the gigantic universe?

[Hugh O'D]

26 minutes ago, bagwell1987 said:

After distributing boxes when you get home you immediately strip, scrub yourself in a long shower, glove up, take your clothing and wash on a long cycle separately. You sanitize where you had dropped your clothes, your vehicle and all door handles you touched as you entered. No discussion, no opinions

Wow. Ok. They're not overreacting either because, as you said, this is from the top. Will have to consider how I can improve whenever I return home from work. Thanks for the info.

[Loopy]

I have been following the cases in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan for months now. Out of the 15 counties Alger so far has 16 with no deaths. But so far as a U P total there have been 23 deaths.

 

Been checking 2 separate sites getting different daily numbers for each county as I think they are getting them from 2 different sources or are counting cases differently. 🤷‍♀️
 

The 15 counties are now over 1,000 cases (1,400). In a few counties the past few days the numbers are rising by leaps and bounds. 4 counties are now over 200 cases. 
 

As a total for the entire state of Michigan there has been 115,387 confirmed cases as of yesterday (Friday)

 

 

 

[CHecker]

40 minutes ago, Hugh O'D said:

Wow. Ok. They're not overreacting either because, as you said, this is from the top. Will have to consider how I can improve whenever I return home from work. Thanks for the info.

This is what many of us have been trying to get through to our beloved brothers and sisters.  The seriousness of it from Jehovah's perspective. Remember when we were told to expect direction from the slave that may seem ridiculous or unnecessary or odd or strange? This is one of those things. Who could have explained all this to us last year? So our OBEDIENCE is critical. Our obedience shows how much we love Jehovah. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by bagwell1987

[Lee49]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/19/europe/europe-second-wave-coronavirus-intl/index.html

 

How it all went wrong (again) in Europe as second wave grips continent

 

There are trends that may explain the deterioration. The surge comes just after the summer vacation season, as workers return to city centers and children go back to school. The World Health Organization has suggested the increase could be partly down to the relaxation of measures and people dropping their guard, and evidence indicates young people are driving the second surge in Europe.

  The second wave

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Friday told reporters that the UK is "now seeing a second wave coming in" and that it was "inevitable," as daily case numbers passed 4,000 for the first time since May.

[Thesauron]

What I find disturbing is that no one is considering that lockdowns have just delayed the spread, and now its just taking its natural course. Locking down delays the spread. Once you have wide seedings, you don't have much recourse outside of a vaccine. 

 

Once you release infected people, they infect each other. Common sense.

It has been brought forth quite often. This is one reason why Sweden never had any large scale lockdowns. But, then again, nobody knew the effects of any path taken. The scenario was new. It was a whole lot of guesswork. And, now, nobody really knows what a post-COVID-19 world will look like. Some things are true, though. We will eventually experience a situation so severe our neighbours will not see a way out, and unless it is cut short, nobody will survive. When the world tries to come at us, Armageddon will ensue. Are you ready?

[BLEmom]

8 hours ago, Shawnster said:

 

If the mask debate is a political discussion, and we are neutral in regards political discussion, then what do you Christian brothers and sisters think we should do about such debates here on jwtalk.net? Should we continue to debate the pros and cons of masks? Should we continue to complain about government overreach and control?  Do you friends want this board to be a place for political discussion? 

 

Masks are here. That is a fact.  Laws are such that we should wear masks.  Jehovah's Organization has made it clear we should go beyond the governments' minimum mandated safety precautions in regards masks and distancing.  These are all irrefutable facts. 

 

So, what is left?  What is the value of having this political discussion on our website?  I ask you all.  What is the value of continuing what you feel and freely admit is a political discussion and debate? 

Perhaps the upcoming local needs on neutrality will give all some clarity on what discussions are truly beneficial.