Local needs - Choose Your Apps Wisely

[bigvince]

11 hours ago, nicolette said:

The Brother “ alluded “ to Go fund me account, although he didn’t mention the term. 

There are many comments here that I appreciate, but I wanted to directly respond to this. I quoted word for word what was said about gofundme pages in last year's convention and cited the source. I've typed out my talk if anyone would like a copy privately.

[TrueTomHarley]

On 3/26/2020 at 11:15 PM, Dismal_Bliss said:

The video did not say "do not use at all" but rather "be cautious about using" unofficial apps and websites. It's good admonishment in this day and age. The organization is reasonable, and is not going to dictate what you can and cannot do, but at the same time will make it abundantly clear how much they care about you and your spiritual well-being.

I never for a moment thought of this website during that talk. Nor even of mine. Nor (perhaps I should have) FB or Twitter or Pinterest. The one who gave the talk here specifically named a few as examples—WhatsApp, Messenger—and 3 or 4 others. Was not even ‘Messaging Apps’ in the talk title? Some things are more ‘media platforms’ such as this—-though maybe that is me splitting hairs. Maybe he should not have given examples because if you do people look to see if their fav is on the list.

 

It is very hard to counsel a huge group of people, as our brothers must do. Someone will say, “Thanks for the new RULE!” and his neighbor will say “Huh? Did you say something?” Some things they say just once and it reverberates & even magnifies for all time. Other things they say 100 times and it doesn’t register—“don’t save multiple seats at the convention—think of the elderly” for example. They more or less gave up on that one, and let the elderly in early, before anyone else. 

 

On FB there are many pages JW This or JW That. Those are the type things that first came to mind—things specifically targeted to JWs but without any means of knowing who’s who. I thought of applications that are essentially like broadcast texting, reaching tons of brothers in an instant, DM for example.

I thought the counsel apt and balanced—urging caution, but not saying “don’t touch,” leaving it for conscience to apply the multiple scriptures cited. They want to be thorough, but not overbearing. They don’t want to find themselves in the place of Lot, whose sons-in-law thought he was joking. I took notes on the part

 

Prov14:15-16, inexperienced one believes every word, shrewd one ponders,  Prov 27:12,  inexperienced keeps right on going, suffer consequences, 1 Corinthians 10:23-24, all things lawful, not advantageous, not all build up, keep seeking advantage of other person, 1 Corinthians 44:40, let all things take place decently and by arrangement. Ps 15: 1,   Who may be guest in your tent? Faultlessly, speaking truth in heart, 1 Corinthians 10:31. 

 

Our brother giving the part gave a nice summary at the end of 3 key points, 1) inherent problems with large groups, 2) counsel not to use theocratic contacts for personal gain, 3) counsel not to use them to raise funds for this or that

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by TrueTomHarley

[Amygdala]

I do think this website is more known by others than we think - even from our own congregations, and yes, NYWHQ. It is easy to find. Some may even recognize us if we have our picture up, or from our posts can easily recognize us. I don't tell anyone, but I know it's not a secret. To me, it's how we conduct ourselves honestly 24 hours, outside where others know and see us, or when we are in the privacy of our homes - whether online or not. But unfortunately there are situations where brothers have been misled by others, so the warnings are very timely and appropriate. Even the day's text today concerning 1 Cor.10:12 about not being over-confident in our faith is very important to maintain.

[TrueTomHarley]

13 minutes ago, Lieblingskind said:

I do think this website is more known by others than we think - even from our own congregations, and yes, NYWHQ. It is easy to find. Some may even recognize us if we have our picture up, or from our posts can easily recognize us. I don't tell anyone, but I know it's not a secret. To me, it's how we conduct ourselves honestly 24 hours, outside where others know and see us, or when we are in the privacy of our homes - whether online or not. But unfortunately there are situations where brothers have been misled by others, so the warnings are very timely and appropriate. Even the day's text today concerning 1 Cor.10:12 about not being over-confident in our faith is very important to maintain.

On my own site, I don’t even say that I am a Witness. I don’t link to JW.org. I would worry that if I did, any idiosyncrasies (we all have some)  I have are attributed to them. Suppose, for example, that you are a big believer of homeopathy (which I am). If I link to JW.org, it implies that they are, too. Nor would I want to explain each time I mention homeopathy that the organization does not endorse any particular form of healthcare, for fear people will see that as “cult like” as though I cannot speak before checking in with HQ. 

 

I liken my social media presence to being a responsible person in the neighborhood. You don’t wear a name tag everywhere you go. You don’t witness to your neighbors each and every time you see them. But in time, everyone knows who you are and what you stand for.

Edited August 21, 2020 by TrueTomHarley

[Tortuga]

7 hours ago, MentalProject said:

I unfortunately am at a crossroads with social and messaging apps due to this talk but am willing to follow Jehovah's direction.

Our Local Needs sounded very much like the Whiteboard presentation and other Local Needs parts about Social Media. It was nice that the brothers extended the reminders and warnings to include Messaging apps. The brothers compared large gatherings on Social Media and Messaging Apps to large, unsupervised gatherings. 

 

There are naturally some concerns about whether or not this site is included in those warnings. Everyone needs to make their own bible trained conscience decisions.

 

However, consider the difference between attending a large gathering where there is a single host that has extended an open invitation for anyone to join the gathering. Then compare that to a large gathering where the host has provided many qualified cohosts that get to know each person as they enter the event and constantly monitor the event. The people attending the event naturally wouldn't know each other, however the well supervised event gives them the opportunity to meet more friends. 

 

Please do your own research about large gatherings and make your own decision. Keep in mind that large, well supervised gatherings can be encouraging. Even Jesus attended a wedding and we don't know if the host personally knew him or not...

 

The OD chapter 13 paragraphs 19&20 have good reminders about being hospitable. This site is an extension of hospitality from all of the administrators and moderators to baptized Jehovah's Witnesses around the world. 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Mephibosheth

[Leonard Match Valid]

Yesterday was in my congregation. I read the article from the old Kingdom ministry on the subject.

 

I wonder if this type of announcement, even repetitive, has something with the approach of the Great Tribulation that we are entering. 

 

A training to avoid getting caught up front, or maybe as mentioned here, it doesn’t serve as a stumbling block, in addition to being completely spotless of the world. 

 

Good sign.

[Miss Bea]

I listened to the talk last night. Here I am. I kept waiting for the big, “zap”. Did not happen. To me, this is a protected sort of a site. (I say protected, because nothing is perfect in this system.) We have the means, even at a personal level, to say something about we find questionable. 
And, it is not a Pollyanna site. Difference happens..And, we can work it out. Like mature Christians.
Plus, this site has made such a difference in my life, I am grateful for this site.

[McKay]

28 minutes ago, Mephibosheth said:

unsupervised gatherings. 

And here is the difference between this site and the sort of messaging groups the outline mentioned. This site is well managed by a group of spiritual people who are on the lookout for information that isn’t upbuilding and remove it promptly. The same cannot be said for a Facebook group that is open for all to join or has one person trying to keep up with a barrage of messages. 

 

Let us also remember that this week’s local needs was not about making rules for the brotherhood. It was about providing direction that each of us has to find application in our lives. 

[Tortuga]

1 minute ago, Miss Bea said:

We have the means, even at a personal level, to say something about we find questionable. 

Thank you for bringing that up. Each member on this site has the option to Report any questionable conduct or information posted on the site. 

 

There is a flag icon at the top of each comment that immediately notifies all of the administrators and moderators. We appreciate the members following and applying biblical principles first, and we appreciate the members  being considerate of our time, however we are happy to address any issues that any member feels is affecting the safety or spirituality of this gathering. 

[rocket]

There was also something in the outline about posting fund-raising on messaging apps. I was not clear on this as I took it that we shouldn't post things like Go-Fund Me campaigns on Instagram or Facebook for example to benefit families that were burned out of their homes by a wildfire. Maybe someone could enlighten us more on this.

[bigvince]

Just now, rocket said:

There was also something in the outline about posting fund-raising on messaging apps. I was not clear on this as I took it that we shouldn't post things like Go-Fund Me campaigns on Instagram or Facebook for example to benefit families that were burned out of their homes by a wildfire. Maybe someone could enlighten us more on this.

1 Corinthians 14:40, all things take place decently and by arrangement. The GB under Christ's direction has arrangements in place for those in need. In fact, we have that on a local level, circuit level, and branch level. So why go around jehovah's established arrangements? Plus look at 1 Timothy 5:3, those who are really in need. The branch is better equipped to determine who is really in need and who is not.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

To me, it's how we conduct ourselves honestly 24 hours, outside where others know and see us,

Another advantage of not making your site Witness-specific is that you can use it to advertise (as I do with my books—two are free, but that may change in time—I just spotted the power company trying to cut off my line for non-payment,, the rats) without anyone thinking you are using theocratic contacts for personal gain. It becomes just plain old advertising to the public, which anyone might do.

 

Another advantage is that it permits for a degree of witnessing to non-believers. If you take as followers or friends only brothers, you are not able to do that, as you are only “preaching to the choir.” 

 

Most friends—and it is safer this way & the only way recommended—use social media only to keep up with other friends. It’s fine. It’s safest. But It is very unlikely that you will ever witness to anyone that way, and witnessing is among the reasons—not the only one—that I go online. By just being a regular good guy, interacting on various matters as you would in your actual neighborhood, occasionally having to shut out a lout—again, as you would in real life—neighbors can get to see an example of a reasonable person who allows himself to by guided by Jehovah.

 

[bohemian]

9 hours ago, MentalProject said:

Hi Richard,

 

The person who gave our version of the talk did a very good job however he highlighted large groups of people on social media apps some of which we do not know personally or have never met before and that the direction was from the slave that we should not be part of these groups for our own safety. He also mentioned that our reaction to this advice will be a reflection of our spirituality. Was that information part of the outline as it for the first time completely fitted the description of this forum?

 

Don't get me wrong I have been a long time member of this forum, I have read the forum introduction rules/guidance many times and have  followed this and many other discussions about this subject however this was quite pointed about not knowing people personally and not to set up or be be part of these groups for everyone's safety. 

 

Is that the direction from the slave or was that bit added to the outline innocently by our brother? I may have to cease being a member due to this talk which I am reluctant to do if that wasn't actually the direction that was intended as I love you all lots and love dropping in here from time to time.

 

I unfortunately am at a crossroads with social and messaging apps due to this talk but am willing to follow Jehovah's direction.

 

8 hours ago, MentalProject said:

The interesting and different part of this talk that I have not heard before is that we should not be setting up social media groups with people we do not know personally and it is the responsibility of the group maker to know the participants in the group personally. Is that in the outline? With upwards of 1000+ people how is this possible?

 

If it is part of the outline does the information we supply when registering ie. Name, Congregation, whether we are baptised or not etc etc along with the limited user status for a period of time until we prove we are an encouraging addition to the forum. - Does this constitute us eventually being known personally by the moderator team? My feelings is veering towards yes but only after a period of time.

 

However explaining this to anyone in my congregation would be a lot more tricky after yesterday's local needs item. 

 

I don't know how much of a task it is for you moderators to stop undesirables infiltrating this forum and I thank you all very much for keeping this a safe and up building environment to be part of. There is obviously a certain amount of danger involved with each new person who joins and so the question is how does that job affect you and how do you feel about the global needs direction if that was part of the outline.

Your first statement is essentially what I heard in my congregation, @MentalProject.The parts in bold were stated here too, so that indicates to me that they must have been in the outline in the UK.

In my second quote I have highlighted something again which was said at our meeting.

 

They must have been in the outline for us both to have heard this.

[carlos]

17 hours ago, bohemian said:

ours mentioned whatsapp. my wife and I have never used it, but there are groups on this and brothers often try to persuade us to join.

We stubbornly refuse.

I belong to 1 facebook group which is a group of owners of a particular brand of hifi.

I belong to one other forum for hifi discussions and that is it!

Chris, using or not Whatsapp is of course a personal choice. You don't have to. But as you know, at least in Europe, almost everybody uses Whatsapp. Not having it is like not having a phone nowadays: you can survive without it but it will often make things harder.

 

In our congregation we have a Whatsapp group for elders and MSs, where we receive important news, our monthly schedule, any instructions from the branch... The elders have another such group just for them. Then we have one Whatsapp group for every service group. That's how we learn the Zoom ID and password for tomorrow, for example, or when there is a need for anything in the congregation. The mods in this site also have a Whatsapp group where we can get in touch quickly.

 

Whatsapp is a wonderful tool to keep in touch with other people. But of course if you are included in groups made up of many people, and everybody starts posting silly things, jokes, or simply "good morning" everyday, that can become a huge waste of time. This talk gave us some suggestions on how to avoid that.

[bohemian]

@carlos  I am a dinosaur!

[bigvince]

I agree with carlos, in our congregation, we have a whatsapp group for the whole congregation which is always buzzing and so encouraging, one for elders, one for MS, one for pioneers, and one for each service group. We used to have a website too, now we have our own app where publishers record time, submit it, get contact info of elders, see a virtual info boards, and so on.

Just now, bohemian said:

@carlos  I am a dinosaur!

Even dinosaurs had a purpose, for a while. 😃

[bohemian]

Just now, bigvince said:

I agree with carlos, in our congregation, we have a whatsapp group for the whole congregation which is always buzzing and so encouraging, one for elders, one for MS, one for pioneers, and one for each service group. We used to have a website too, now we have our own app where publishers record time, submit it, get contact info of elders, see a virtual info boards, and so on.

But do you require the brothers to join it?  Our group has a whatsapp “thing” but they send me messages by text or email. I am satisfied with that.

[Sheep]

We talked about this subject last night on @Qapla's Zoom gathering. I told them that, personally, I don't think any of this applies to me. Therefore I didn't listen to it. I showed everyone present the only messaging app that I use: I held up my landline phone to the camera.

[bigvince]

Bohemian, we do not require anyone to join anything. Some have joined but turn off notifications, some choose not to join. Their choice.

[carlos]

10 hours ago, MentalProject said:

The person who gave our version of the talk did a very good job however he highlighted large groups of people on social media apps some of which we do not know personally or have never met before and that the direction was from the slave that we should not be part of these groups for our own safety. He also mentioned that our reaction to this advice will be a reflection of our spirituality. Was that information part of the outline as it for the first time completely fitted the description of this forum?

Yes, it was in the outline. Large groups were compared to social meetings. If you throw a party in your home, usually you wouldn't invite people you don't know.

 

It's true that in this site there is no way any of us, not even the moderators, can know everybody personally.  Yet if you look at the principle, the point was that we need to be careful of whom we associate with. We consider that that aspect is covered by our safety measures. New members are under moderation. Then, after we get to know them better, they become full access members. Even then, the site is well moderated. It's true that we cannot be certain of everyone's standing in the congregation, but we can moderate content. Most members agree that they feel safe here because the mods do their work well.

 

IMO it's no different than attending a convention. We greet the friends around us and make new friends. Of course, we have no way to know whether that nice brother sat next to us is actually disfellowshipped. We assume they are our brothers and sisters. If the discussion with them takes a weird turn, we can always leave.

 

In any case, it's understandable if some friends don't feel comfortable here after this talk and prefer to leave. One should always follow his own conscience. We respect that.

[carlos]

2 hours ago, rocket said:

There was also something in the outline about posting fund-raising on messaging apps. I was not clear on this as I took it that we shouldn't post things like Go-Fund Me campaigns on Instagram or Facebook for example to benefit families that were burned out of their homes by a wildfire. Maybe someone could enlighten us more on this.

Lynn, it was explained that sometimes a friend contacts the whole congregation, or hundreds of friends, to organize some help for a needy family in the congregation. Of course they do that with the best of intentions, but it's not the proper arrangement.

 

If we learn that someone in the congregation needs help and we have the means to provide it, that's fine. But if the congregation needs to be involved, then it's the responsibility of the body of elders, not ours, to organize that assistance. For example, not everybody who needs help qualifies to be helped by the congregation.

 

Following that same principle, as you say, we should not take advantage of our friends at Instagram or Facebook or sites like this one to ask for money. If someone needs help they need to talk with their elders.

 

There may be situations though where a Gofund campaign may be justified, like looking for investments to start a business, for example. But in the context of the congregation it's better to follow the scriptural arrangement.

Edited August 21, 2020 by carlos

[TrueTomHarley]

36 minutes ago, bohemian said:

[actually @MentalProjectsaid it] The person who gave our version of the talk did a very good job however he highlighted large groups of people on social media apps some of which we do not know personally or have never met before and that the direction was from the slave that we should not be part of these groups for our own safety. He also mentioned that our reaction to this advice will be a reflection of our spirituality. Was that information part of the outline as it for the first time completely fitted the description of this forum?

I suspect the unbolded line about how we respond is a reflection of our own spirituality is something he threw in himself for emphasis. It may even be that he knows little about the internet himself outside of jw.org, and thus is inclined to rule it all out.

 

The bolded part I think he phrased it not exactly the way counsel is typically given. The brothers do not tell us what we should or should not do, even “for our own safety.” (unless we are speaking of a Bible law). Instead, they do what @Dismal_Blisssaid: advise caution, explain the reason for caution via scriptural principles, and trust that persons consciences will take it from there. They do not attempt to be master of other persons’ faith.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by TrueTomHarley

[carlos]

37 minutes ago, bohemian said:

But do you require the brothers to join it?  Our group has a whatsapp “thing” but they send me messages by text or email. I am satisfied with that.

No, we don't require the brothers to join yet. But they may miss a lot of info and news if they don't.

[bigvince]

Just now, carlos said:

No, we don't require the brothers to join yet. But they may miss a lot of info and news if they don't.

Actually, we still email or call those who aren't on the app. Not on every encouraging thing shared in the congregation whatsapp, but on important announcements or info.

[Amygdala]

22 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It may even be that he knows little about the internet himself outside of jw.org, and thus is inclined to rule it all out.

That's what I've noticed, too. But I respect their choice, and helps me to be more understanding when any fears or negative comments come up.