Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[Fallbrookian]

12 hours ago, vern said:

No thank you....

 

Pretty sure vaccines been whats hurting me over the years....

Agree with you Vern. Most of the people that are against vaccines is because they are "vaccine damaged", and there are many, not just a few.  

[carlos]

Except in the cases where blood fractions are used, taking a vaccine is not a conscience decision. A conscience decision means there are factors why Jehovah might or might not approve something and the Bible doesn't make it clear, so every Christian must make a prayerful decision after studying the Bible principles involved. But there is nothing in vaccines in general (except those that contain blood fractions) to displease Jehovah. Jehovah's Witnesses are not against vaccines, our publications acknowledge the many millions of lives they have saved and how they have helped eradicate terrible diseases.

 

Now if blood fractions are used to develop a vaccine or any drug, then it becomes a conscience decision, because we are not sure of Jehovah's view on the use of such fractions.

 

Of course a Christian might decide not to take a particular vaccine or any vaccines for safety concerns or for whatever reasons. That is a personal choice, our conscience is not involved.

 

That may seem just semantics but it becomes relevant in case the government makes one or several vaccines compulsory. When it's a conscience decision, our Bible trained conscience is a higher authority that any human government. But can we disobey the Caesar based on safety concerns or a personal preference? I really don't have a clear opinion of this, I'd like to hear some comments.

[Qapla]

7 minutes ago, Nancy Montgomery said:

Most of the people that are against vaccines is because they are "vaccine damaged"

 

?????

 

Not sure what "vaccine damaged" is  

 

I know a number of people who are "anti-vaccine" but have never had one in their lives - how could they be "damaged" ?

 

 

[Nelly Kim]

What We Know About the C.D.C.’s Covid-19 Vaccine Plans.

Moderna and Pfizer are testing a new kind of vaccine that has never before been approved for use by people. It contains genetic molecules called messenger RNA. The messenger RNA is injected into muscle cells, which treat it like instructions for building a protein — a protein found on the surface of the coronavirus. If all goes well, the proteins stimulate the immune system and result in long-lasting protection against the virus.

 

I've been quite worried about this information... And very uncomfortable... 

Will it not alter our gene? Somehow?  Once, they brought this up, but it was canceled. Now they insist on pushing through with it.

And in most countries, they plan on making it compulsory... Without being vaccinated, you won't be admitted into certain places. Hmmmmm... I really don't want anything messing with my senses( smiling)

 

[zoebarry]

It’s quite possible that the reason that the whole brotherhood will be considering the issue of Neutrality in our midweek meeting, is because this Covid-19 vaccination could become mandatory in ALL countries. And it could end of being an issue for Jehovah’s people.

 

We shall see how things play out.....

[carlos]

1 hour ago, zoebarry said:

It’s quite possible that the reason that the whole brotherhood will be considering the issue of Neutrality in our midweek meeting, is because this Covid-19 vaccination could become mandatory in ALL countries. And it could end of being an issue for Jehovah’s people.

Grace, would you please elaborate on that? I am not sure of how this would be an issue for Jehovah's people, I'd like to understand it better.

 

It's unlikely that people are forced to take that vaccination in most countries, that's very complicated from a legal viewpoint. But of course they could put restrictions on those who don't accept it even if it's not made mandatory. But how would that be an issue for Jehovah's Witnesses?

[Fallbrookian]

3 hours ago, Qapla said:

 

?????

 

Not sure what "vaccine damaged" is  

 

I know a number of people who are "anti-vaccine" but have never had one in their lives - how could they be "damaged" ?

 

 

"Vaccines, like all prescription medicines, carry risks - the law considers them to be 'unavoidably unsafe'.  Because the government and medical community want to ensure high vaccination rates, they do not publicize this legal fact.  To the contrary, they tell the public that 'vaccines are safe and effective'.  The public is lulled into believing that vaccines are almost perfectly risk free.  That, however, is public relations." (quoted from Vaccine Epidemic)

 

Congress passed the 1986 National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) so that doctors and the vaccine industry would not be held liable for adverse reactions to vaccines.  As of October 2019, $4.2 Billion in compensation (not including attorneys fees and costs) has been awarded.

 

And of course you could not be vaccine damaged, (which means suffering ill effects from a vaccine), if you have never had a vaccine..... make sense?

[Fallbrookian]

3 hours ago, zoebarry said:

It’s quite possible that the reason that the whole brotherhood will be considering the issue of Neutrality in our midweek meeting, is because this Covid-19 vaccination could become mandatory in ALL countries. And it could end of being an issue for Jehovah’s people.

 

We shall see how things play out.....

Vaccinations are a personal choice, but where we must exercise neutrality is when political issues are brought up say in a conversation. We would not praise or criticize any political party, but remain strictly neutral. The USA has become so divided over the political leaders and the upcoming election.. They may not be tolerant of our loyalty to Jehovah and his kingdom. Considering the issue of neutrality will help strengthen our resolve of neutrality.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Nancy Montgomery
choice of wording is better, less conflict

[Qapla]

There are risks in all aspects of life. You take a risk when you step out your front door, when you drive on the highway, when you enter a building, when you eat food prepared by someone you don't know - most of us assume those risks without much thought.

 

Yes, there are risks to taking a vaccine. Does that make them wrong for everyone to take? It is a personal decision.

 

Just a few seemingly unrelated thoughts on this:

• There are many "legal" exceptions to many products
  • for instance, many riding lawn mowers compact tractors in the US have a "seat switch" to kill the motor if you get off the machine. Is this because the machines are that dangerous - or are they "lawyer switches" ... each person must decide
• There are a plethora of "legally required warning labels" on products that are "obvious" and even the subject of comedy sketches - so, it is no wonder the Governments pass laws to protect manufactures and people who administer or sell the various products
  • Like the warning on a clothes iron warning you that you should not use the iron on your clothes while wearing them
• There are many common things people use that have a devastating effect on others
  • for instance, I am allergic to
    • Novocaine
    • Nutrasweet
    • Enalapril
    • Benzocaine
  • Does that mean no one should use these because they cause me harm?

Yes, there have been some people who have had adverse difficulties because they had a vaccine just as there have been some who had adverse difficulties because they used aspirin or ate peanuts ... that does not make them "bad" or "off limits" to those who they do not cause adverse effects to.

 

Since taking any vaccine is a personal decision I, personally, will not tell anyone that  'vaccines are safe and effective" or "vaccines are unsafe and ineffective" - I will let everyoe else make their own decision and not try to convince anyone else to adopt my view - regardless what my view is.

 

 

[Lee49]

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/volunteer-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-trial-dies-brazil-n1244166

 

A volunteer in AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine trial has died in Brazil, Reuters reported Wednesday.

 

Anvisa, Brazil's health authority, received information from an investigation into the death.

AstraZeneca's phase 3 clinical trial was put on hold in early September after a study participant in the United Kingdom developed a spinal cord injury. The trials have since resumed in the U.K. as well as in Brazil, though they remain on hold in the U.S.

 

[sunshine]

On 10/20/2020 at 7:34 PM, carlos said:

 

That may seem just semantics but it becomes relevant in case the government makes one or several vaccines compulsory. When it's a conscience decision, our Bible trained conscience is a higher authority that any human government. But can we disobey the Caesar based on safety concerns or a personal preference? I really don't have a clear opinion of this, I'd like to hear some comments.

 

The principles of bodily "sovereignty", that no government or authority can oblige someone to undergo a medical procedure without informed concent has been so fundamental to civil and common law, we have, as yet, not needed to consider what to do if this was suspended.  Arguably no authority has the right to mandate what a person does or does not choose to take into their body.  In French law for example consent must be obtained for any medical procedure , and said concent can be withdrawn by the individual at any time.  But with codiv it is being argued that during a pandemic right to bodily sovereignty can be suspended.

 

Quote

Now the question for Christians is simple, if the government mandated you do something that you  believe is harmful for your own health or the health of your family, but otherwise violates no bible principles, do you obey?

 

 

On the one hand, it can be argued that harming your own body, violates the principles of the sanctity of life (if the government ordered us to eat a handful of dirt a day, do we eat it?) .  On the other hand , the bible offers no exceptions to our obedience to secular authorities,  save out service to Jehovah (eating a handful of dirt a day doesn't stop us from serving Jehovah, and Jehovah never told us NOT to eat dirt).

 

I have no answer for these questions  but I know to follow the brothers as they follows Christ.  Wearing a mask is bad for your health, but the brothers in Bethel are wearing masks.   I have no doubt they are aware of the health risks but they see the bigger picture: they must remain operational as long as possible for the sake of the brotherhood, no matter what the personal cost.   So if the government mandated eating dirt and I see The Slave eating dirt ..... I'll eat the dirt.

Edited October 22, 2020 by sunshine

[Thesauron]

 
 
On the one hand, it can be argued that harming your own body, violates the principles of the sanctity of life (if the government ordered us to eat a handful of dirt a day, do we eat it?) .  On the other hand , the bible offers no exceptions to our obedience to secular authorities,  save out service to Jehovah (eating a handful of dirt a day doesn't stop us from serving Jehovah, and Jehovah never told us NOT to eat dirt).
 
I have no answer for these questions  but I know to follow the brothers as they follows Christ.  Wearing a mask is bad for your health, but the brothers in Bethel are wearing masks.   I have no doubt they are aware of the health risks but they see the bigger picture: they must remain operational as long as possible for the sake of the brotherhood, no matter what the personal cost.   So if the government mandated eating dirt and I see The Slave eating dirt ..... I'll eat the dirt.

Perhaps they will not force you, but how about a requirement to do it to send your kids to school or go to work?

[sunshine]

Just now, Thesauron said:

Perhaps they will not force you, but how about a requirement to do it to send your kids to school or go to work?

I think I mentioned earlier, it will probably be "mandetory" in that sense (codiv passport) at least at first. China seems to be the flagship.  I'm a teacher so I know very sooner rather ghan later,  I will have to make a decision, my job or the vaccine (Europe is months ahhead of the US ...this will probably not be an issue for you guys until spring 2021).  I think we are all going to have to take Jesus advice and take it one day at a time (Isaiah 30:15)

[well]

6 hours ago, sunshine said:

 

The principles of bodily "sovereignty", that no government or authority can oblige someone to undergo a medical procedure without informed concent has been so fundamental to civil and common law, we have, as yet, not needed to consider what to do if this was suspended.  Arguably no authority has the right to mandate what a person does or does not choose to take into their body.  In French law for example consent must be obtained for any medical procedure , and said concent can be withdrawn by the individual at any time.  But with codiv it is being argued that during a pandemic right to bodily sovereignty can be suspended.

 

 

 

On the one hand, it can be argued that harming your own body, violates the principles of the sanctity of life (if the government ordered us to eat a handful of dirt a day, do we eat it?) .  On the other hand , the bible offers no exceptions to our obedience to secular authorities,  save out service to Jehovah (eating a handful of dirt a day doesn't stop us from serving Jehovah, and Jehovah never told us NOT to eat dirt).

 

I have no answer for these questions  but I know to follow the brothers as they follows Christ.  Wearing a mask is bad for your health, but the brothers in Bethel are wearing masks.   I have no doubt they are aware of the health risks but they see the bigger picture: they must remain operational as long as possible for the sake of the brotherhood, no matter what the personal cost.   So if the government mandated eating dirt and I see The Slave eating dirt ..... I'll eat the dirt.

Actually we may not know exactly what is heatlhy or not as the academic research and study is always progressing, not to mention poltical or economic interest that may interfere the result... In the past, we are told A was not good for your health, and B was recommended... But, now it is the contrast or they claimed C and D are better... In the end, we are already "sick" because of sin, we will die no matter how we choose to be healthy, plus there's unexpected events that may overtake our life... Sure, we will try our best to protect our life, but what is the correct method, I truly dunno... 

 

So, are you into carb or fat? Lol  

[Lee49]

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-treatment-covid-19

 

FDA Approves First Treatment for COVID-19

 

 Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved the antiviral drug Veklury (remdesivir) for use in adult and pediatric patients 12 years of age and older and weighing at least 40 kilograms (about 88 pounds) for the treatment of COVID-19 requiring hospitalization. Veklury should only be administered in a hospital or in a healthcare setting capable of providing acute care comparable to inpatient hospital care. Veklury is the first treatment for COVID-19 to receive FDA approval. 

This approval does not include the entire population that had been authorized to use Veklury under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) originally issued on May 1, 2020.

[McKay]

On 10/20/2020 at 1:48 PM, Nelly Michael said:

I've been quite worried about this information... And very uncomfortable... 

Will it not alter our gene? Somehow?  Once, they brought this up, but it was canceled. Now they insist on pushing through with it.

And in most countries, they plan on making it compulsory... Without being vaccinated, you won't be admitted into certain places. Hmmmmm... I really don't want anything messing with my senses( smiling)

Sister, there are many things that can alter our DNA. We are made in a dynamic way by our God. The mere act of exercise has the potential to rewrite some of our DNA. A vaccine altering our genes is pretty standard and is known to be safe.

 

On this subject of vaccine safety, may I ask a very simple question of our dear brothers and sisters. While it is true that many anti-vax stories are prevelant on Facebook, we should be wary of trusting these stories. Why? Well, if the anti-Vax movement had any credibility at all, don't you think the GB would warn us about the potential danger? The last article on vaccinations was from 1993 where it was emphasized that protecting our family is a serious responsibility before Jehovah - and that was in the context of TAKING vaccines! The mere silence from the GB on this issue should make all of us question whether believing anti-vax stories is wise.

 

(As for those who claim vaccine damage, there are two things at play here. 1) It is admittedly possible but rare that some vaccines can produce a negative reaction. 2) It is possible - and WAY more likely - that these reactions can be all in our heads. Our brains are powerful machines and can send out false positives. This is called a psychosomatic response and it happens to us all the time. So which of these two scenarios is honestly more likely? Since the chances of developing a complication is so low, isn't it possible that the so called damage was caused by something completely unrelated? Or it's just a coincidence? Related to all this: a brother I know claims to be deathly allergic to cats. He visited a friend who unbeknownst to the brother had a cat. Our brother was fine. Until he saw the cat. Then his body had a full blown allergic reaction that forced him to leave the house. So is this brother really allergic or not? The mind is a powerful thing and we don't understand it entirely. Therefore, we shouldn't always trust our bodies to be our guide. Logic is often more helpful. )

 

For me and my family, the decision to take our vaccines comes down to one question: do I want my kids to live or die? While some may have gotten temporarily ill from taking a vaccine, no one I know has ever died from taking a vaccine. But there was once a dark time when millions died because vaccines were not available. As for vaccines causing autism in children...well, all I can say is that I'd rather have an autistic child than a dead child. I can't imagine why anyone would prefer the latter because they heard it might happen from someone they don't know on the Internet.

Edited October 23, 2020 by McKay

[friendlyone]

I had my flu vaccination last week. For the first time I can remember I didn't feel too well that same night, felt like a chill.

[vern]

17 hours ago, McKay said:

and WAY more likely - that these reactions can be all in our heads. Our

Really?

 

Life time autism?

 

Bi poler and other "mental" diadnosis symptoms after vaccinations

 

Cancer......

 

Cardiac infections after.....

 

Diabetic 1.....

 

Auto immune.....

 

 

 

 

I can asure you that many are telling stories  to confuse the issue...

 

The brothers are experts to Gods word.... Do the best they can on other fronts....

 

In the end we all make our own choices...

 

 

But no... I don.t think its in poeples heads and they should just snap out of it.

[Fallbrookian]

1 hour ago, vern said:

Really?

 

Life time autism?

 

Bi poler and other "mental" diadnosis symptoms after vaccinations

 

Cancer......

 

Cardiac infections after.....

 

Diabetic 1.....

 

Auto immune.....

 

 

 

 

I can asure you that many are telling stories  to confuse the issue...

 

The brothers are experts to Gods word.... Do the best they can on other fronts....

 

In the end we all make our own choices...

 

 

But no... I don.t think its in poeples heads and they should just snap out of it.

Thanks for the comment Vern! You are so right.  I know someone whose baby died from vaccinations. You don't have to look to far to find people you know with cancer and auto immune disease.  The pharmaceutical companies want to keep people as customers from the cradle to the grave. Better hygiene, sanitation, clean water, indoor plumbing, good nutrition....all help with reducing disease. Jehovah gave us a great immune system also! 

[Fallbrookian]

Quote From the Awake 1989 2/22 p.28

 

"Many things people do in seeking improved health are less than desirable.  Some take medicines that have undesirable side effects, believing that the benefits outweigh the risks. Many view vaccines similarly.  We consider vaccination to be a personal matter....."

 

 

[Qapla]

17 minutes ago, Nancy Montgomery said:

We consider vaccination to be a personal matter.

 

Yes! This is correct.

 

So, regardless if we are in favor of vaccinations or against them, we should not try to present/portray/slant/state/imply our comments on the subject in such a way as to infer that a choice other than the one we hold is wrong.

 

We should not post comments in such a way that is seems or comes across like we are trying to get anyone to change their mind/view to agree with our own view - or that people "just don't understand" if they do not agree with us.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Qapla

[carlos]

On 10/21/2020 at 8:19 PM, Lee49 said:

A volunteer in AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine trial has died in Brazil, Reuters reported Wednesday.

This headline that has appeared in many newspapers is misleading. The person who died hadn't been given the vaccine, he was given a placebo.

 

On 10/22/2020 at 5:44 PM, sunshine said:

On the one hand, it can be argued that harming your own body, violates the principles of the sanctity of life (if the government ordered us to eat a handful of dirt a day, do we eat it?) .  On the other hand , the bible offers no exceptions to our obedience to secular authorities,  save out service to Jehovah (eating a handful of dirt a day doesn't stop us from serving Jehovah, and Jehovah never told us NOT to eat dirt).

 

I have no answer for these questions  but I know to follow the brothers as they follows Christ.  Wearing a mask is bad for your health, but the brothers in Bethel are wearing masks.   I have no doubt they are aware of the health risks but they see the bigger picture: they must remain operational as long as possible for the sake of the brotherhood, no matter what the personal cost.   So if the government mandated eating dirt and I see The Slave eating dirt ..... I'll eat the dirt.

Rosie, the questions you ask here are something I wonder many times. To what degree should we obey the Caesar. If they say we must pay 90 percent of our income as taxes and starve, should we comply? If they say we must go hopping on one leg, do we have to comply?

 

Yet fortunately the covid19 vaccine is not comparable to eating dirt. Vaccines, as all drugs and medications, have some risks. And more in this case when this vaccine is being less tested than others. It can cause a bad reaction in some person. But still, it's one case in tens or hundreds of thousands. The Oxford covid19 vaccine is being tested in over 30,000 people and only a couple of them had a minor reaction, nothing life threatening. And it's not even clear if it was caused by the vaccine or not. Of course you have the right to refuse any medical treatment you wish, but even if they force people to take the vaccine it's not like sending them to the slaughterhouse.

 

30 minutes ago, Nancy Montgomery said:

"Many things people do in seeking improved health are less than desirable.  Some take medicines that have undesirable side effects, believing that the benefits outweigh the risks. Many view vaccines similarly.  We consider vaccination to be a personal matter....."

Nancy, you have all the right to refuse vaccines or any medical treatment for whatever reasons. But it's not fair to present our publications as opposed to vaccines. Jehovah's Witnesses as a group are not against vaccines at all. That quotation you posted acknowledges that vaccines aren't perfect and sometimes may have secondary effects, so every person must evaluate the advantages and disadvantages as with any other treatment. That's very reasonable. But our publications have repeatedly mentioned that vaccines are very efficient to fight infectious diseases and that they have saved many millions of lives. For example:

 

*** g04 5/22 p. 6 The Age-Old Fight for Better Health *** (Interestingly this quotation is inside a box titled "Knowledge Versus Superstition")

During the 20th century, vaccines have proved effective in preventing other diseases, such as polio, yellow fever, measles, and rubella.

 

*** g04 7/22 p. 19 “Once Stricken, Twice Afflicted” ***
As a result of effective vaccines and diligent immunization programs, science has made great progress in its effort to eradicate polio, a debilitating childhood disease.

 

*** g03 10/22 p. 9 When Germs Will Not Harm Anyone *** (This article recommends vaccines, among other things, as a measure to avoid getting sick.)
Measures to Avoid Getting Sick
[...]
5. Vaccines can help train your immune system to fight off some germs that are common where you live.

 

*** g02 9/22 p. 5 Silent Weapons—How Real Is the Threat? ***
Of course, medical and scientific advances have also led to the development of drugs and vaccines. These have been highly successful in the treatment and prevention of disease.

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by carlos

[McKay]

5 hours ago, vern said:

Really?

 

Life time autism?

 

Bi poler and other "mental" diadnosis symptoms after vaccinations

 

Cancer......

 

Cardiac infections after.....

 

Diabetic 1.....

 

Auto immune.....

 

 

Let's say that vaccines cause all those things. Given the alternative of DEATH from whooping cough or tetanus, wouldn't you say that vaccines are the better alternative?

 

Also, let's discuss whether there is a correlation between the illnesses you mention with vaccines or whether there is causation. We don't know all the details. What we do know is that millions of infant deaths can be avoided by parents vaccinating their children. Why is that a bad thing, even if there IS a chance of the baby developing a complication later in life? At least the child is alive!

[sunshine]

6 hours ago, carlos said:

This headline that has appeared in many newspapers is misleading. The person who died hadn't been given the vaccine, he was given a placebo.

 

Rosie, the questions you ask here are something I wonder many times. To what degree should we obey the Caesar. If they say we must pay 90 percent of our income as taxes and starve, should we comply? If they say we must go hopping on one leg, do we have to comply?

 

Yet fortunately the covid19 vaccine is not comparable to eating dirt. Vaccines, as all drugs and medications, have some risks. And more in this case when this vaccine is being less tested than others. It can cause a bad reaction in some person. But still, it's one case in tens or hundreds of thousands. The Oxford covid19 vaccine is being tested in over 30,000 people and only a couple of them had a minor reaction, nothing life threatening. And it's not even clear if it was caused by the vaccine or not. Of course you have the right to refuse any medical treatment you wish, but even if they force people to take the vaccine it's not like sending them to the slaughterhouse.

 

Nancy, you have all the right to refuse vaccines or any medical treatment for whatever reasons. But it's not fair to present our publications as opposed to vaccines. Jehovah's Witnesses as a group are not against vaccines at all. That quotation you posted acknowledges that vaccines aren't perfect and sometimes may have secondary effects, so every person must evaluate the advantages and disadvantages as with any other treatment. That's very reasonable. But our publications have repeatedly mentioned that vaccines are very efficient to fight infectious diseases and that they have saved many millions of lives. For example:

 

*** g04 5/22 p. 6 The Age-Old Fight for Better Health *** (Interestingly this quotation is inside a box titled "Knowledge Versus Superstition")

During the 20th century, vaccines have proved effective in preventing other diseases, such as polio, yellow fever, measles, and rubella.

 

*** g04 7/22 p. 19 “Once Stricken, Twice Afflicted” ***
As a result of effective vaccines and diligent immunization programs, science has made great progress in its effort to eradicate polio, a debilitating childhood disease.

 

*** g03 10/22 p. 9 When Germs Will Not Harm Anyone *** (This article recommends vaccines, among other things, as a measure to avoid getting sick.)
Measures to Avoid Getting Sick
[...]
5. Vaccines can help train your immune system to fight off some germs that are common where you live.

 

*** g02 9/22 p. 5 Silent Weapons—How Real Is the Threat? ***
Of course, medical and scientific advances have also led to the development of drugs and vaccines. These have been highly successful in the treatment and prevention of disease.

 

Money is Cesars, he can have it all back if he wants, Jehovah will feed us.  Hopping on one leg is just exercise.  The issue of bodily autonomy is entirely differents it raises the question to what degree can one human being dictate over what another takes into their body.  It is this very basic principle that has been the basis of out numerous court cases on blood.  For the first time in modern history it is being suggested that that right over one's own body is conditional.  

 

As for comparing this "vaccine" to eating dirt, I believe it much worse (the body could probably cope with a handful of dirt a day).  Most people simply dont have the time or dont know how to find alternative narratives about vaccines in general and this "vaccine" in particular  (and alternative journalism is being wiped off the net as we speak)...that's okay, Jehovah will protect us.  That said I have and I have ZERO doubt that what they want to do with humanity via this vaccine is horrific and I choose my words carefully my brother. 

 

Even if it were not, the notion of leaving every human earth the choice between accepting a medical procedure or  not working, having access to travel, access to public spaces money or welfare or even not being able to leave ones home is horrific enough.  If you think I am exagerating on that, just bookmark this post and get back to me  in one year (3 to 6 months regarding travel).

 

I take no pleasure in this post,  Jesus told us it was going to be bad.  Bad is here!

 

 

Agapé  

 

 

R

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by sunshine

[Amygdala]

On 10/24/2020 at 2:16 AM, carlos said:

Nancy, you have all the right to refuse vaccines or any medical treatment for whatever reasons. But it's not fair to present our publications as opposed to vaccines

How did she do that by quoting the Awake? In effect the Awake leaves this up to the reader, as I assume was meant by her posting it. It is a conscience matter and whether one is for or against it, she is only reposting the Slave's view.

 

Her previous posts were her reasons concluded for not wanting to jump on the vaccine bandwagon, which she is entitled to, but doesn't mean she is saying others cannot.  Rather from her own personal research and experiences from those around her, she personally would not. Where has she judged anyone or saying our publications are against vaccinations??

Edited October 24, 2020 by Lieblingskind