GB 2025 Update #4

[LeolaRootStew]

4 hours ago, Bluebell said:

toasting and birthdays....both have their origin in pagan rituals

but toasting is now allowed!

 

just saying not advocating birthsdays

 

birthdays currently have superstitious elements, so that's where the similarities end.

[Dages]

And birthdays are not cool in the Bible.
toasts aren't really in the Bible.
 

[Shawnster]

12 hours ago, Derrick_m said:

Are tattoos actually in question? doesn’t get more clear.

We said the same thing about toasting just last month. 

 

 

[Dages]

Like birthdays, tatoos aren't great in the Bible.
 

[GodlyDevotion]

I wanted to share some thoughts on this matter that has come up recently — a topic that touches on personal conscience and my relationship with Jehovah. It is very important to me. 
 

This may be the first time some of us are hearing that a few people may engage in birthday anniversaries or other social customs without consciously connecting them to their original meanings. But when we reflect on such practices, we’re reminded of a vital principle shared in the recent update:

 

“Does this practice honor Jehovah? And does it show love and consideration for our brothers and sisters?”

 

That question has stuck with me. It helps us view our decisions not only through the lens of personal freedom but through the lens of love. Because in this spiritual family, our decisions don’t stand alone. They ripple outward — touching hearts, memories, and sometimes, old wounds.

 

For many of us who came into the truth, refusing to celebrate birthdays was one of the earliest — and most difficult — changes we made. Some of us faced mockery, emotional pressure, or even rejection from our families. And yet, we made that decision because we came to love Jehovah’s standards more than our own comfort.

 

Why do we take such a clear stand?

 

Because birthdays are rooted in paganism and linked to astrology, false gods, and spiritistic ideas about guardian spirits.

 

Because the Bible’s two mentions of birthdays are both tied to violent, ungodly events: the execution of Pharaoh’s baker and the beheading of John the Baptist.

 

Because no faithful servant of Jehovah in the Bible is shown celebrating a birthday — not Jesus, not the apostles, not the prophets.

 

 

And, most of all, because birthdays often place emphasis on exalting the self. The focus becomes “my day,” “my gifts,” “my wishes,” rather than glorifying Jehovah or drawing attention to him.

 

So for Jehovah’s people, the choice has been clear. We don’t celebrate birthdays — not because we want to be different for the sake of it, but because we want to be different for Jehovah’s sake.

 

Today, however, toasting has largely lost those overt spiritual connotations. In many settings, it’s just a casual gesture — a way of saying “Cheers,” “Congratulations,” or “To your success.” The update helped me see why toasting is treated as a matter of conscience — not a congregational rule.

 

But here’s where we have to be very careful.

 

Just because something isn’t “forbidden” doesn’t make it spiritually wise.

 

 

Some toasts still exalt human pride, wealth, or achievement, things Jehovah has warned us not to glorify. 
 

So the question is not simply:

 

“Is this allowed?” But rather:

 

“Does this bring peace?”

“Does this build others up?”

“Does this reflect my love for Jehovah and my brothers?”

 

That’s the spiritual maturity Jehovah is drawing out of us — not blind rule-following, but discernment driven by love. 

 

Brother Lett used a powerful illustration of a child who needs to hold the hand of his mother before crossing the street. A mature adult would not need his mother’s hand to cross the street.

 

What I got from that illustration is this: If the mother, while crossing the street, has an accident that kills the child due to negligence, she will answer to Jehovah. But for an adult, if he dies through his own negligence, he will answer to Jehovah.

 

This is one of those situations where our actions now are being observed by Jehovah, and He will be keenly interested in how we display love and make decisions. With more freedom comes greater responsibility before Jehovah.

 

 

 

[Ostria]

On 7/4/2025 at 10:17 AM, jwzhang said:

It's basically just clinking glasses that was specifically mentioned.
Anything else we can think of that are in a similar boat?

For me, I've always found it weird when bachelors parties/trips are organized. I associate it with having a bad connotation and origin, but since none of the publications mention it, I just kept it to myself (but I didn't do it when I got married, same with my wife)

The update has a lot of good points, there are no point in setting rules for things since we come from so many different cultures and backgrounds, with scriptural principles to teach us that unity is the most important.

 

 

I've learned a lot of people do bachelor/ette parties and trips are their last time to be 'free' and have no committal obligations. That's why a lot of them have a bunch of strippers. The modern view of marriage is seen as more of a ball and chain, you're shackled, you cant have any fun anymore, etc etc etc. Some of the younger ones see it as a form of 'ownership'. It's really WILD how the kids see marriage now when you go into social media.

 

Side note, I always wondered about marriage rings and if they had pagan origins, and my guess was right that they do, but it's no longer seen as that anymore (Like i always wondered why it had to be a SPECIFIC ringer on a certain hand. I heard it's because it has the vein/artery/whatever that leads to the heart)

 

As far as Brother Lett, i personally thought he looked adorable with his snazzy new glasses. I thought it kinda made him look a bit younger but from the beginning of the thread seems that I need a new pair of glasses

[Ysaias]

On 7/5/2025 at 7:24 AM, LeolaRootStew said:

I think even if we got permission to celebrate birthdays I wouldn't even consider doing it in this system. I still firmly believe that blowing out candles on a cake after a wish (who are you even wishing to?) is clearly wrong, so I would definitely not do any of that, so that means I could technically observe the day and receive gifts, but make sure any superstitious/false worship practices were left out.

 

However, I can just imagine telling people that I now celebrate birthdays and they surprise me with a cake and candles and I have to explain why that specific thing is still wrong to me. Or they are celebrating someone else's birthday in the office and I have to explain why I still don't want to participate even though "I'm allowed". It would be a personal nightmare.

 

It would be far easier to stick with not celebrating at all than to explain all the subtle nuances, not to mention having to start buying people gifts or risk offending them. No thank you.

 

If that happens, we'd need a update from Caleb's father. 😂

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/become-jehovahs-friend-2/jehovah-forgives/

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/become-jehovahs-friend-2/should-we-celebrate-birthdays/

[Hope]

19 hours ago, Robinson said:

I've  never heard it considered a political holiday here in Chicago. First I've heard of it being called Invasion Day, too. And my ancestors are supposedly Choctaw and Cherokee Natives. Maybe it's because of the region I'm in???

It's a particularly American holiday, though. I've always explained my not celebrating it for that reason- it's nationalistic. It could end up being divisive amongst our friends. Plus, we are to be thankful for God's blessings every day, not just one big day a year, that features excess in many cases.

 

I'm from Chicago, too 😉

[Almost there]

I for one, feel that the anniversary of my children's birth is a joyous occasion, just as is the anniversary of my wedding day.  

 

So, I find ways to show my kids my contentment on that day, without explicitly saying "Happy Birthday".  

[Ostria]

20 minutes ago, Almost there said:

I for one, feel that the anniversary of my 子's birth is a joyous occasion, just as is the anniversary of my wedding day.  

 

So, I find ways to show my 子 my contentment on that day, without explicitly saying "Happy Birthday".  

 

 

What i do in April, November, and December (Easter, my son's birthday month, and Christmas) is give my son a budget and let him run wild in the toy store. He still gets holiday gifts from other family members (including his father) but that's kinda my thing so he's not wondering "Why isnt mommy getting anything for me"

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, Dages said:

Like birthdays, tatoos aren't great in the Bible.
 

 

Likewise with drink offerings, which is what a toast is. 

 

'let's raise a glass to... "

" let's drink to... "

[Ostria]

Thanksgiving and Columbus day is so annoyingly polarizing in the states. As soon as those holidays come up the internet becomes a dumpster fire. Actually fun fact not sure if yall noticed but they actually had "Indigenous People Day" on the google calendars with Columbus day as well, however when Trump became president he wiped out a bunch of holidays off the calendar. He took away Indigenous people day and kept columbus day (He also wiped out Pride month and Black History Month, the amount of dumpster fires I saw was insane)

 

TBH i'm happy with the less clutter on the calendar

[jdcarlson]

40 minutes ago, Almost there said:

I for one, feel that the anniversary of my children's birth is a joyous occasion, just as is the anniversary of my wedding day.  

 

So, I find ways to show my kids my contentment on that day, without explicitly saying "Happy Birthday".  

 

As a parent, I can sympathize with your sentiments over the birth of a child.

 

But  -  I remember when our only son (now age 56) was six month's old, his mother said: "If I EVER say anything about another child, will you PLEASE hit me in the head with a baseball bat!"

 

Having said that, yes children can be difficult at times. But I thank Jehovah every night in my prayers for the way he has turned out. He is active in the congregation, and he, his wife, and both sons appear to be respected by the brothers and sisters in the congregation.

 

His mother (my wife) is in the Alzheimer's ward in the retirement community where we live. He is VERY attentive to visit her on a regular basis (two the three times a week), and has built a very good relationship with the staff working there.

 

I do not know that ages of your children. But, we need to keep in mind that children are masters at obversing what we do, and HOW we do it. It is common for a child to copy thier parents.

 

When my grandson's were young, to avoid unnecessary problems with his wife's parents (who were great "Christmass people") and to forestall difficulties with the children hearing about thier schoolmates getting presents at Christmas, my son and his wife would make a "presents day" during the summer. So the children would not be wrongly influenced to be jealous of schoolmates who received presents at worldly holidays, etc.

 

This lasted for just a few years, and then they discontinued the "presents day."

 

There would be nothing wrong with telling children "Today we remember how happy we are that Jehovah allowed you to come live with us as part of our family."

 

Presents might not be necessary. That would be a matter of conscience.

 

It might be best not to use the date of thier birth, to prevent them from associating the special 
"happy" day with their date of birth.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

Edited July 7 by jdcarlson

[jwhess]

I left home when I was 18 years old to serve as a pioneer where the need was greater.  I am the oldest child and the first to leave home.  My mother would call me on my birthday to say she was thinking about me and when I was born.

 

She never sent presents, she never sang any songs, she never made me a cake (at least not on that day) and she never sent a Birthday card.  She just called to say that I was on her mind and she was reflecting on the experience of my birth.  She continued to do that until we gave her grandchildren.

[Dark King]

40 minutes ago, Ostria said:

What i do in April, November, and December (Easter, my son's birthday month, and Christmas) is give my son a budget and let him run wild in the toy store. He still gets holiday gifts from other family members (including his father) but that's kinda my thing so he's not wondering "Why isnt mommy getting anything for me"

We never celebrated Christmas growing up. But my mom would always get us the Toys for tots and give it to us before Christmas because she couldn't afford getting us toys herself. I love and admire her for that. 💜

 

Thanks 🙏🏾 Mom! Love you always! 🤎

 

Eric 

[Ostria]

15 minutes ago, Dark King said:

We never celebrated Christmas growing up. But my mom would always get us the Toys for tots and give it to us before Christmas because she couldn't afford getting us toys herself. I love and admire her for that. 💜

 

Thanks 🙏🏾 Mom! Love you always! 🤎

 

Eric 

 

 

Yeah we did Christmas pretty hardcore back in the day, however my mom never did the whole Santa thing, most of the years my mom was working two jobs, and she sure wasn't going to let some fake fat dude get the glory of getting me toys. She 100% let me know she bought them lol.

 

Have you heard about some chick last year was asking people for stuff from toys for tots, and then had a melt down on TikTok because she didn't get EXACTLY what she wanted for her kids?

[Jwanon]

I can't really find pagan meaning to clicking the glasses

 

The origin of the tradition is unknown.

[Dark King]

22 minutes ago, Jwanon said:

I can't really find pagan meaning to clicking the glasses

 

The origin of the tradition is unknown.

I was told that tradition is peer pressure from dead people. Why are we having dead people tell us what we should and shouldn't do?

 

Only Jehovah should tell us what we should and shouldn't do not dead people.

[Qapla]

To help shed some light on the subject, the Update only clarified "toasting/clinking glasses" ... where are people getting birthdays, Thanksgiving and other declared holidays by various religious and governmental institutions from around the world from this talk? I did not see anything that would change our view of these things in this Update.

 

I was raised by a mother learning the truth and an opposed father. I was not raised to "celebrate" my birthday not any holidays. When I was in elementary school, some of the other kids would kid me about not getting presents for Christmas - however, they would be a little upset when I would get new clothes for school and they had to wait till December to get anything.

 

When we had children, since we are both in the truth, we never celebrated any holidays, birthdays, etc. with our kids. They learned from day one why we did not. Keep in mind, that does not mean they don't know on what day they were born, how old they are or when they turn another year older. It does get mentioned when any of us increase our age by a year. My kids never missed or regretted not having a birthday party. It is one thing to acknowledge our age and the date it changes - it is quite another thing to throw a party to commemorate it. There is nothing wrong with knowing your age and the date of your birth and admitting you are a year older. That is not the issue. It's engaging in practices that dishonor Jehovah and His word like are done during birthday parties that is the issue.

 

As for Thanksgiving, as celebrated in the US, that is a "legal" holiday set aside by the government, based on a religious celebration - not something I want to be involved with.

[Ostria]

15 minutes ago, Qapla said:

where are people getting birthdays, Thanksgiving and other declared holidays by various religious and governmental institutions from around the world from this talk

 

 

Someone i think a page or two back mentioned if the GB will change anything about birthdays and thanksgiving being celebrated, that's what caused the topic to change. I cant tell you where the actual post is but it's there. Everyone has been pretty much trying to explain to the person why they won't change their stance and what some people do in exchange for those particular holidays

[computerwiz]

On 7/5/2025 at 9:06 AM, Tortuga said:

I want a wind chime of bearded men toasting...

 

Here ya go!

 

[Qapla]

2 hours ago, Ostria said:

Someone I think a page or two back mentioned if the GB will change anything about birthdays and thanksgiving being celebrated, that's what caused the topic to change.

 

That may be why the thread was impacted ... but where was that thought/idea/reference/implication in "the talk" given in Update #4 that would even prompt such speculation ???

 

Why interject something into a thread when it wasn't even part of the information dispensed during the talk ... it wasn't even hinted at.

 

[computerwiz]

With all these adjustments to thinking by principles and having your own trained conscious......the next GB Update will be based on 1 Thessalonians 4:11.    That way we can all get along while we figure out what we wanna do.

 

And then the one after that will be based on Romans 12:13b.  

 

Eventually we'll find the right balance with everything!

 

😁

[Tortuga]

Its interesting how a joke or an innocent question can become a raging fire of speculation and debate.

Edited July 7 by Tortuga

[Qapla]

24 minutes ago, computerwiz said:

With all these adjustments to thinking by principles and having your own trained conscious......the next GB Update will be based on 1 Thessalonians 4:11.    That way we can all get along while we figure out what we wanna do.

 

And then the one after that will be based on Romans 12:13b.  

 

Eventually we'll find the right balance with everything!

 

😁

 

1 Thessalonians 4:11

Make it your aim to live quietly and to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we instructed you

 

Romans 12:13b

Share with the holy ones according to their needs. Follow the course of hospitality.