September 2015 broadcast

[Ahuvah]

If you have had a chance to read the first chapter of the KR that was released in 2014 then you have already heard what Bro Splane is talking about.

 

Absolutely, in fact a lot of the information in talks and watchtower content has already been covered in the Kingdom Rules Book. Amazing book.

[Shawnster]

 

GENERATION

 

In the above graphic, the definition of "Generation" best applicable is 1C boldfaced below.  

 

1

a :  a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor

 

b :  a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously

 

c :  a group of individuals having contemporaneously a status (as that of students in a school) which each one holds only for a limited period

 

This Generation that Jesus spoke about is a group of anointed individuals sharing the contemporaneous status of living during the Lord's Day.  Those who were alive and anointed when the Lord's Day began in 1914 were contemporaries with those anointed individuals that will see the Lord's Day end.

[Stavro]

It simply suggests quite prudently that "the word 'generation' with reference to humans whose lives would in some way be associated with the foretold events during his presence."

 

The original 1988 printing is almost identical to the current printing, the only exception being that the 1988 printing adds a third paragraph citing the now-abandoned doctrine that the generation was all mankind since 1914.

 

This is why the Insight book has been printed for nearly three decades without any major revisions, because it is purely Biblical and historical, with minimal discussion of doctrine. When adjustments are made, it is invariably to remove the adjusted doctrine, not to add new information that has not been unambiguously stated in the Bible or well-proven in the secular historical record.

[Dustparticle]

 I don't care about the Generation because it could last another 20 years. I like the part when Rutherford was using the radio in 1921. He was no lay back person too. He was working day and night. I heard this brother was working up to 17 hours a day at times. 

[jwhess]

Br. Glenn, if we could have used "short-wave" back in 1921-1924 we could have transmitted internationally.  Those frequencies weren't used commercially until later.

[Ahuvah]

 

 

 

GENERATION

 

In the above graphic, the definition of "Generation" best applicable is 1C boldfaced below.  

 

1

a :  a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor

 

b :  a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously

 

c :  a group of individuals having contemporaneously a status (as that of students in a school) which each one holds only for a limited period

 

This Generation that Jesus spoke about is a group of anointed individuals sharing the contemporaneous status of living during the Lord's Day.  Those who were alive and anointed when the Lord's Day began in 1914 were contemporaries with those anointed individuals that will see the Lord's Day end.

 

 Couldn't get much clearer in my opinion this is very well done.

[Sheep]

As always, a new music video was presented on the September broadcast. Brother Ciranko introduced it by saying:

 

“Living close to the end means we are preaching in very exciting times. But at 2 Timothy 3:1 the Bible calls these ‘critical times hard to deal with.’ That’s true, not just for us as Jehovah’s Witnesses, but also for everyone we meet in our ministry and daily life. Often something simple, like a smile, can help melt the stress and anxiety a person is feeling, and open their heart to the witness we give. That’s the theme of our new music video for this month’s program, Just a Smile.”

 

 

 

Just a Smile

We can tell a hundred stories
We can speak a million words
We can paint a thousand pictures
But will our heart be stirred

We can often make a difference
With a kindly word or deed
But sometimes just a smile
Is all we really need

Just a smile
Can lift a weary heart
Just a smile
Can help us make a start
When you’ve done your best praying you’ll succeed
Then you will see a smile’s what we need

This world is unforgiving
Full of cruelness and despair
Many hopes are disappointed
By a world that doesn’t care
And we see it in their faces
As they pass us on the street
So we offer hope and comfort
To the people that we meet

Just a smile
Can lift a weary heart
Just a smile
Can help us make a start
When you’ve done your best praying you’ll succeed
Then you will see a smile is what we need

At times we feel downhearted
When no one seems to care
About the hope we offer
Or the message that we bear
So some hearts are just too hardened
To receive the Kingdom seed
But could it be a friendly smile
Is what they really need

Just a smile
Can lift a weary heart
Just a smile
Can help us make a start
When you’ve done your best praying you’ll succeed
Then you will see a smile is what we need

[peper-eliot]

[Dustparticle]

Br. Glenn, if we could have used "short-wave" back in 1921-1924 we could have transmitted internationally.  Those frequencies weren't used commercially until later.

Thanks for the infor my brother.

[Dages]

Brother David

 

If this subject is so clear to you then can you explain to me why the current updated online, June 2015, Insight On The Scriptures, article 'GENERATION' in the very last paragraph does not in any sense discuss or imply any two-stage hypothesis or any notion of overlapping in the context of Jesus discussion of 'this generation' . It simply suggests quite prudently that "the word 'generation' with reference to humans whose lives would in some way be associated with the foretold events during his presence."

 

scholar JW

 

The Slave did not included (yet?) details about this in the book, that's all.

Insight is an encyclopedia, that's why, I guess, the Slave is taking more time to update it in a "encyclopedia"-style.

This is just my idea though.

 

I don't see how the abscence of update in Insight make this teaching difficult to grasp though.

When I read Joseph's verses in Exodus, I was sold.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Dages

[hatcheckgirl]

I was having a think about the part on singleness in this month's program.  It was interesting that relationships with those outside the truth, ie not marrying "in the Lord", was mentioned in the same point as jw dating sites - seems like the GB don't encourage that sort of activity in looking for a mate.

I know quite a few that have used these dating sites and so far are successful and happily married.  For me, if I were in that position, I wouldn't do it as it is not my thing.  But it seems that this is not really what we should be doing.

[seagull]

I have zero problem with the explanation of the current understanding of the generation and have got it from day one.  The overlap explanation and it's implications for those who understand they have been anointed in more recent years, as well as the relationship to the length of the time of the end has always been clear.  The numerous charts and graphical aids are very helpful to make the explanation more easily digested by all.

 

In his explanation of how to understand the term "generation", Brother Splane made some very specific applications that would clearly rule out any possible use of some definitions of the term.  For example, some definitions would allow for two people who were not alive at the same time to be considered the same generation For example, in some definitions a child  born but who then dies after a few months could be the same generation as another child born a few days after the first one dies.  This type of situation was ruled out as the meaning of the term in Matthew therefore the only way of understanding the term is as presented.

 

Ever since the new understanding was presented I have been interested as to if it is possible to explain this understanding purely scripturally.  I am not sure it is even possible since there is no qualification of the term provided in the Bible.  Of course, scriptures such as those used by Bro. Splane show clearly the basis for understanding the relationship between the generation and the duration of the last days however I have never seen a scriptural explanation for understanding the generation term in the specific way done so now.

 

In my experience over the years it is often using the Bible to explain the Bible that means new light becomes apparent.  So, for example, looking at the different accounts of the last days has helped to modify our understanding of things like the timing of the events of the GT, judgement of the sheep and goats and so on.

 

It would seem to me that in this case however, it is simply discernment over time that has lead to the understanding we now have.  Obviously much prayer and meditation would have been undertaken but it begs the question to me as to if it would have been possible to discern this understanding earlier or if it is only the obvious passage of time that changes things?  I wonder if perhaps some of the F&DS had been proposing this new light for some time, perhaps years, but it was simply not the right time and therefore the whole body could not be unanimous in their understanding?

 

It's just an subtext that I find interesting, I am sure it's unimportant for many but I would be interested to know if anyone else has had similar thoughts? 

Edited September 9, 2015 by seagull

[Krusso]

I think and this is just my imperfect opinion that the passage of time makes it clear that the understanding was not in complete synchrony with  Jehovah's time perspective. My mother , although a very simple woman was able to understand way before the 1990's that the 1914 generation was not what Jesus was referring when he mentioned the generation. My Dad was not in agreement with her. She just thought that there were a lot of prophecies to be fulfilled yet and not enough time for them to happen within the time period established by that said understanding. If I am not mistaken there are still 10 things that need to happen before the Armageddon. They could happen in 10 years or 100. If the period of time named "the end" lasts 200 years is still the end if you consider that we have 6,000 years of human history at least. We can still call those 200 years the last days (once we look back after the end). According to my Mom we will only know for sure what Jesus meant, after the Armageddon, we or  whoever survives looks back and say: Oh, that was what Jesus  meant, How come I did not see that?

 

I also agree with the point that some of the FDS can perceive things before others and wait the passage of time to bring the issue again and make it unanimous.

 

Let's wait patiently and see.

[On the huh]

I don't think of it as two groups - maybe that's where some are finding hard to understand - just as a group of people whose lives overlap during a period of time.  Just like Joseph and his brothers.  I like this explanation from a 2010 WT

 

It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long; and it has an end. (Ex. 1:6)

 

I also wonder if some get confused about a "generation" and a "lifespan".  Yes the lifespan of most of the anointed ones from 1914 has passed, but the generation of that has not.

 

Onto a another subject.  Its good that singleness was discussed this month.  However I wish that sometimes they would discuss it from a single brother's point of view.  It is nearly always from the sisters angle.  She is lonely, wants to marry, a man from her workplace is paying attention to her etc etc.

 

Men get lonely too.  Yes some things are the same, and the principles apply, but then some things are different for brothers too.

[TRUTH04]

@Tortuga : I should be more precise : the "discreet and faithful slave" is composed with members of "this generation" who saw and understood the "sign"

As the FDS (mat 24:45) just appears on 1919 (w13 15/7 p22 §12), we can say that the "modern" GB is composed with few anointed who are part of "this generation"(mat 24:34)

Now, even if the sign started on October 1914, the spiritual understanding of the sign wasn't so clear at that time... and the prophecy of Malachi 3:2-4 about the purification of the earthly part of the spiritual temple wasn't finished... (w14 15/11 p30). This period starred in 1914 and ended in 1919.

That's perhaps why brother Russell, who died in October 1916, is not mentioned as a member of "this generation" in the September broadcasting... he died during the purification period, without the clear understanding of the sign.

I think that would be a stretch. I think Bro Splane used Bro Franz as an example because of his living quite a long time than his colleagues who saw and understood the sign in 1914, and considering his prominence too.

He seem to be a better example to drive home his argument.

[TRUTH04]

I was having a think about the part on singleness in this month's program. It was interesting that relationships with those outside the truth, ie not marrying "in the Lord", was mentioned in the same point as jw dating sites - seems like the GB don't encourage that sort of activity in looking for a mate.

I know quite a few that have used these dating sites and so far are successful and happily married. For me, if I were in that position, I wouldn't do it as it is not my thing. But it seems that this is not really what we should be doing.

The Slave discourage it because of its disadvantages, and the probability of it resulting in failure is high. But I think they also know that there is a possibility of success thru that means.

Remember instructions we receive thru them are done with the worldwide field in mind.

[jwhess]

I think that would be a stretch. I think Bro Splane used Bro Franz as an example because of his living quite a long time than his colleagues who saw and understood the sign in 1914, and considering his prominence too.

He seem to be a better example to drive home his argument.

I agree, Br. Chigozie.  Br. Splane did not mention most of the other 6000 anointed ones at that time either.  Since Br. Russell died before Jesus appointed the FDS, Br. Splane may have felt it would introduce (or allow) a wrong conclusion. Even though he might be a member of the "generation" Br. Russell was not a member of the Faithful and Discreet Slave.  It was easier to pick someone who was both.  Br. VanAmburgh was mentioned, however Br. Woodworth was not.  Br. Karl Klein was mentioned (baptized in 1918 died 2001).

[seagull]

I think and this is just my imperfect opinion that the passage of time makes it clear that the understanding was not in complete synchrony with  Jehovah's time perspective. My mother , although a very simple woman was able to understand way before the 1990's that the 1914 generation was not what Jesus was referring when he mentioned the generation. My Dad was not in agreement with her. She just thought that there were a lot of prophecies to be fulfilled yet and not enough time for them to happen within the time period established by that said understanding. If I am not mistaken there are still 10 things that need to happen before the Armageddon. They could happen in 10 years or 100. If the period of time named "the end" lasts 200 years is still the end if you consider that we have 6,000 years of human history at least. We can still call those 200 years the last days (once we look back after the end). According to my Mom we will only know for sure what Jesus meant, after the Armageddon, we or  whoever survives looks back and say: Oh, that was what Jesus  meant, How come I did not see that?

 

I also agree with the point that some of the FDS can perceive things before others and wait the passage of time to bring the issue again and make it unanimous.

 

Let's wait patiently and see.

 

This is interesting because if your mother had discussed this with people in the 80's and into the 90's then I suspect she would have faced negative comments about her views along the lines of not having faith that Jehovah can make things happen and that those people who saw 1914 were now very old and so the time must be very reduced etc.  

 

Your point about the time not really mattering in the grand scheme of things is also well made.  I have long thought this however over time I have wondered about why it is in the Bible if not meant as being important.  The F&DS still consider it very important since they have constantly reiterated that the cross over of two sets of anointed persons is all it can be,  It is not one cross over followed by another.  Bro. Splane made that absolutely clear again in the broadcast.  So whilst 200, 300 or another 400 years is not a big thing compared to eternity, it is not allowed for by the F&DS.  Something in the understanding the F&DS have on this matter rules out the possibility of there being multiple overlaps.  The use of the term "generation" by Jesus was critical to the Christians back then and their survival.  The F&DS clearly still consider it highly relevant to today and whilst not putting a fixed time on things are being crystal clear that there is one overlap and the second group of anointed ones are advancing in age themselves. 

[Krusso]

For the record, my mother never ever discussed this with other members of the congregation. She only discussed this within our family. My Dad used to say that she should not say that because it was against the current understanding. However she had a strong opinion about the subject. When the understanding was changed, she was like: Didn't I tell you?

[Krusso]

Brother Jez, if you look back starting when the first congregations were founded and the apostles wrote letters to them, there was always  an urgency to be alert. The way I think and again I am an imperfect person and might correct my thinking at any time, is that being Christian is living your life like Jesus will come today. It was like that 2,000 years ago and still it is since we exist as an organization. The FDS does exactly what the apostles did. The apostles also said that the end was near. It did not damage anybody who had faith in God and a relationship with him.  Although the end of the system was far from near. They were without knowing being prepared for severe persecution that ended up taking their lives. They remained faith and received their prize. If we put in our collective minds that the end will come in 50 years, some might sleep spiritually and suffer the consequences. Since we are not alone, our kids and family will also suffers the consequences. Think about what could happen in your life if you become spiritually cold, a thousand of bad decisions could be made and the all the pain and unnecessary suffering. It is beneficial to all of us independently if the end will come in 10 or 50 years to have faith that is at  the door. It makes us work harder  on our faith, hope, marriage, child rearing, being a better person, a better servant of Jehovah, etc. This is my humble opinion. It does not really matter if the end will come in my lifetime or not. I would not have chosen a different life.

[Dustparticle]

Bearded Brother.JPG

I believe kept the beard until day he died. He was a tough brother too.

[Lance]

I always like Acts 1:--

6 So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

Here Luke reiterates what Jesus said about the last days of that generation... He could of quoted anything... But that was on everyone's minds...Even though they where only less than 10 years from the fulfillment of that prophecy... It is not for us to know the times or seasons... Just do your job.. And I will look after the rest..

[seagull]

Brother Jez, if you look back starting when the first congregations were founded and the apostles wrote letters to them, there was always  an urgency to be alert. The way I think and again I am an imperfect person and might correct my thinking at any time, is that being Christian is living your life like Jesus will come today. It was like that 2,000 years ago and still it is since we exist as an organization. The FDS does exactly what the apostles did. The apostles also said that the end was near. It did not damage anybody who had faith in God and a relationship with him.  Although the end of the system was far from near. They were without knowing being prepared for severe persecution that ended up taking their lives. They remained faith and received their prize. If we put in our collective minds that the end will come in 50 years, some might sleep spiritually and suffer the consequences. Since we are not alone, our kids and family will also suffers the consequences. Think about what could happen in your life if you become spiritually cold, a thousand of bad decisions could be made and the all the pain and unnecessary suffering. It is beneficial to all of us independently if the end will come in 10 or 50 years to have faith that is at  the door. It makes us work harder  on our faith, hope, marriage, child rearing, being a better person, a better servant of Jehovah, etc. This is my humble opinion. It does not really matter if the end will come in my lifetime or not. I would not have chosen a different life.

 

Dear Sister Russo,

 

Your attitude is one that I was brought up with and have tried to maintain.  It sounds like perhaps your mother was a little like my parents :-)

 

I think that being pragmatic rather than dogmatic is far more sustainable in terms of how we view the end.  All I was trying to point out is that it's not always easy to square this with how the perception of one's personal views might appear.  Right now if one were to express reservations about how the generations is being scoped by the F&DS then that might appear to others as one not being in line with the chariot. Either the use of the the term by Jesus has relevance for today or not.  Right now the F&DS believe it does has relevance therefore the correct understanding does have some kind of importance.  For ones like you and (hopefully I) for whom it is relativity easy to maintain a highly pragmatic view of matters like this then it does not ultimately matter.  I am not sure that everyone is actually able to do this. 

[Krusso]

Brother Jez, we are on the same page. I have always considered myself a pragmatic person. Bear with me, if you are a Christian you are waiting for Jesus' s return. Then what constitutes generation is relevant because is connected with him being at the door. However the current understanding of what constitutes generation is what it is : a current understanding. It is not a fact. It will become a fact when and if the Armageddon comes within the now fixed time frame established by the current understanding. If not, it will be exactly like it has been , this understanding will be old and a new one will became current. Remember Jehovah is the leader and if He allows corrections, first there is no damage to his servants and second it serves his purpose. We may not understand now. But we will certainly understand later. Regarding my personal view of the whole matter, I don't share it with brothers or sisters that I suspect are not strong enough to take it. Actually it is very rare that I share at all.

[Mykyl]

Can I ask something? What goes through your mind when you hear for instance the first sentence of this months broadcast talk? He said,

 

"This month, I'd like to discuss how, our understanding of this generation that Jesus spoke about at Mathew 24:34 has a bearing on the nearness of the time of of the end of this system of things."

 

So it wasnt being discussed because some people don't understand the generation thing but rather its bearing on how near we are to the end. Unlike a talk at a convention etc this broadcast will have been checked/edited before release, so we can be confident that this is exactly what they want us to understand.

 

Nearness is mentioned a few times throughout the broadcast as well. Bro Sanderson mentioned it in his talk at our convention in Glasgow. (I have them recorded.) The Governing Body as a whole are saying it directly and/or in print.

 

I am genuinely trying to understand how others think. I get that we are not working to a date or anything like that, but that doesn't mean we cant be excited about what those feeding us are telling us, does it? To me it is very clear it is what they say it is. "Soon, very soon..."

 

Not trying to belittle any thoughts by the way. I am asking as I have come across in my own congregation, almost a reluctance to actually discuss what we are being told. A repeating of don't know the day or the hour etc. Seriously that is what I hear all the time. Not sure why because I don't hear either a day or an hour in the phrase soon, very soon. lol