DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[campanula]

8 minutes ago, Skye said:

I too am not sure, dear Alexa. But if this is the case, it worries me that a confidential letter (nothing extreme in it though) was posted online, and was able to be acquired by NTV (who is this?)

It's a news channel http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1787002/   

[Alexa]

17:11 Hearings are resumed. Representatives of the defendant, having read the extract from the register, comment that the extract is not current information, but information about the property that was once owned by the CA or the MPO, but was alienated. The Ministry of Justice explains that it was in this form that the data was provided by Rosreestr. The court decides to attach.

17:16 The court is interested in how the idea of linking the MPO with the CA in the MPO statutes is formulated. To this end, he asks the parties if they have an example of an MPO charter. The Ministry of Justice does not. Omelchenko presents to the court a sample of the Charter of the MPO Jehovah's Witnesses. The text of the charter states that the LRO is included in the "canonical structure" of the UC, belongs to the "religious confession of Jehovah's Witnesses". There is no wording "structural subdivision" (the term applied to political parties), on which the administrative plaintiff insists

[jayrtom]

7 minutes ago, campanula said:

It's a news channel http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1787002/   

very biased news channel...

Quote

 

 

In one of the offices of "Jehovah's Witnesses" operatives seized documents, hard drives, which store all the secrets of one of the most closed religious organizations in the world.

 At the disposal of the "PE" program were internal documents of the organization.  They say that due to the increased interest on the part of the siloviki, it is necessary to stop transferring money to the general cashier and, in fact, to lie to the bottom.  In addition, some kind of self-security service issued recommendations for community leaders, how to suspend inspections and earn some more.

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by jayrtom

[campanula]

2 minutes ago, jayrtom said:

very biased news channel...

 

 

The worst one among many others

[jayrtom]

17:29
 The court refuses the previously announced petition for viewing the video of the flops. 

 5:30 pm
 As there are no more petitions, the court announces the continuation of the hearings on April 20, 2017 at 14:00.

[Alexa]

Edited April 19, 2017 by Alexa

[Alexa]

To all, 16:38 am in Moscow a while ago

   

[shali]

Wonder why the court is refusing to watch the video evidence of the literature being planted but will accept the transcipts of the video into evidence?

[shali]

Something tells me they have already seen the video, so don't want to see it again.  They already know what it shows.

[Skye]

Pretty draining, this entire process. May Jehovah keep infusing our dear brothers with the strength and wisdom required in this court case.

[campanula]

That's what I just can't get: we are trying to talk to everyone to tell about our belief and they call us "the most secret sect".

Now they just turning us inside out in this court process and we are glad to explain everything.

 I just wonder would they continue to call us a secret sect? 

Edited April 19, 2017 by campanula
grammar

[sunshine]

SIMPLIFIED Afternoon SESSION

 

14"40  The COURT continues to look at different documents.

 

14"45  The JUDGE point out that the records of the Elders meetings regarding the legal guidelines for the congregation look very similar.  The Brothers respond that's not because the Bethel tells them what to do but because the elders from differrent congregretions talk to each other.

 

JUDGE Anyway do you want me to say all the convictions of the Jehovah's Wtinesses in the past were wrong?  That is not what we are asking you to say.  But you CAN say if all these convictions are relevant to the decision you want to make here or not.

 

15"02 Our Lawyer Master Novakov presents pictures that prove that it was the authorities that planted banned books in our kingdom Halls.  He says its a country wide conspriacy.  We even have proof that one of the people that planted books is friends with someone in authority.   Another conviction was based on false testimony, and we know it was a false testimony because the individual later admitted they had lied (because the Police put pressure on them to).  In another case the courts agreed that literature had been planted.

 

15"20 Our Lawyer Master Topors says "Anyway, the point is since the Russian Branch wasn't even involved in these cases, why are you trying to use them as "evidence" to close the Branch?

 

15"25  The Brothers present documents from various National (Russian) and International organizations appealing to Russia to stop the persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

15"42  Their Lawyes AGAIN try and bring up the blood issue.  Our Lawyers say that has nothing to do with this case. Legally refusing blood is not considered "extremist" but a legal right.  Secondly the blood cases you want to include as "evidence" don't even mention the Russian Branch.  Thirdly medical records are confidential and you can't just present the conclusion you'd have to also present the medical history.  AND in none of the cases did the parent refuse alternative medical treatement.

 

Finally our Lawyer Zhenkov points out that certain practices of the Russian Orthodox and Muslim community can be considered dangerous for a person's health but you don't see the MoJ calling for Islam to be liquidated do you?!

 

THE JUDGE:  Okay listen we aren't going to include any of those blood cases. 

 

16"22 Their Lawyers want to include an "internal document" obtained by the TV Journalist, dealing (presumably) with the use of donations.  The JUDGE Allows that document to be included.

 

16"35  The MoJ (returning to the issue that congregations are legal "branches" of the Bethel) says "Your HQ decides who the head of the local congregational associations are".  The Brothers point out the Bethel makes "recommendations" not "orders".

 

16"40  The MoJ (Them) wants the judge to look at the list of all the property owned by the Russian Branch and the local congregations.

 

SHORT BREAK

 

 

[Alexa]

1 minute ago, campanula said:

That's what I just can't get: we are trying to talk to everyone to tell about our belief and they call us "the most secret sect".

Now they just turning us inside out in this court process we are glad to explain everything.

 I just wonder would they continue to call us a secret sect? 

Sect a group of people with somewhat different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong.

 

I agree sis Svetlana, our beliefs are not subject from other religions doctrines but to the owned Russian Orthodox Church Bibles...

 

[shali]

Wow hard to believe the people there think you are a 'secret sect' when you are the most visual religion out there! Going from door to door, having large conventions, leaving literature everywhere you can!  The 170,000 witnesses in Russia are more visible than the 100 million Russian Orthodox!

Edited April 19, 2017 by shali

[campanula]

Most of people here think what they have been told by NTV's.

Edited April 19, 2017 by campanula

[Vinnie]

if it's included, doesn't  it have to be accepted as evidence ? and it is clearly evidence against them. or maybe he has already seen it and is embarrassed  by it. It's easier to have an argument over the meaning of words . They are looking for the tiniest indications or discrepancies. Should we offer them a magnifying glass?  I wouldn't doubt they pull the Pharisee trick , same as against Jesus and say "what do you have to say about all this evidence against you", when The Pharisee couldn't get two false witnesses to agree.

 

Stay tuned for tomorrows continuing  court case. Same bat time, same bat channel, or in this case same Russian time, same Russian channel.

 

But on a more serious note,  I've been praying with tears this morning .  May Jehovah turn their words against them and turn their cursing into a blessing for his people. Oh Jehovah, that people may know, you alone are the most high over all the earth.   

Edited April 19, 2017 by Vincent
because i had 15 minutes more to think.

[sunshine]

 

SIMPLIFIED VERSION:  19 April Evening.

 

 

17"11 [Afer a short break]  Regarding the list of Property "owned" by the Russian Branch and the local congregations the Brothers explain, its not up-to-date.  The JUDGE says no matter we'll include the list.

 

17"16  THE JUDGE  (returning to the question of whether the congregations are Bethel "Branches") asks to see the guidelines for the associations provided by the Bethel.   The Brothers give the judge a copy and point out that nowhere does it use the words "Sub-division" or "branch" for the congregations.  That they are associated by faith in a religious not a legal structure.

 

The JUDGE confirms he won' t be looking at any video footage.

 

17"29 End of Court for today.

 

 

BACK 20 APRIL 2017

[Bluebell]

well done.....Rosie......thank you soooooo much....

[shali]

I think they've already been to jw-russia.org and seen the footage.  They would have to know how bad it looks!  By not looking at it when WE ask, it's like they are giving the MOJ a break, or siding with them in a way.

[sunshine]

I would LOVE the Vatican or indeed any of the other churches to go through the kind of scrutiny our organization is going through... there would be accountants fleeing the country on cargo boats before the summons arrived.  The Vatican would simply refuse to be scrutinized at all. 

 

Their day will come.

 

R

 

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by sunshine

[bagwell1987]

Rosie, I also really appreciate your simplified version of the proceedings. I can understand what they're saying now.

See ya tomorrow.

[rbrown1205]

So we now have to wait until the 20th.  Well, Jehovah's name is being broadcast all over through the press and through the internet.  Jehovah strengthen our brothers, in Jesus' name.  Strengthen Brother Sanderson.  Protect them all.

[bagwell1987]

Just now, rbrown1205 said:

So we now have to wait until the 20th.  Well, Jehovah's name is being broadcast all over through the press and through the internet.  Jehovah strengthen our brothers, in Jesus' name.  Strengthen Brother Sanderson.  Protect them all.

That's ok sis, it's just tomorrow, or midnight my time

[Sheep]

Where is this court hearing going on (what city)? I'm not sure where the Supreme Court is. Is it in Moscow, St. Petersburg, elsewhere? Knowing that would enable us to find out exactly how to translate the time zone from Russian to wherever we are.

 

Woww! Look at all the time zones they've got over there!

 

[Araujo JW]

33 minutes ago, Sheep said:

Where is this court hearing going on (what city)? I'm not sure where the Supreme Court is. Is it in Moscow, St. Petersburg, elsewhere? Knowing that would enable us to find out exactly how to translate the time zone from Russian to wherever we are.

 

Woww! Look at all the time zones they've got over there!

 

Улица Поварская в Москве (Povarskaya Street in Moscow)