DISCUSS COURT CASE HERE JW.org - Jehovah’s Witnesses Mobilize Global Response to Threat of Ban in Russia

[Christian_Lange]

Anton Chivchalov, our brother who is a journalist, did a good job from the court room, it was absolutely thrilling to follow him: @Chivchalov.

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[futurepromise]

2 hours ago, Tortuga said:

Court was adjourned until tomorrow. 

2017-04-05 15:49:00

The Supreme Court announced a break until Thursday in a lawsuit to ban "Jehovah's Witnesses" in Russia,

 

Moscow. 5th of April. INTERFAX - The Supreme Court of the Russian Federation on April 6 will continue consideration of the Ministry of Justice's claim to recognize Russian "Jehovah's Witnesses" as an extremist organization and ban its activities on the territory of the country.

As the correspondent of Interfax reports, the court declared a break to allow representatives of Jehovah's Witnesses to get acquainted with additional materials that were submitted by the Ministry of Justice.

Earlier on Wednesday, the Supreme Court of the Russian Federation rejected the petition of "Jehovah's Witnesses" to suspend the proceedings on the suit of the Ministry of Justice against this organization. Representatives of Jehovah's Witnesses were asked to suspend the proceedings on the suit before the judgments of the courts of general jurisdiction on a number of cases. In particular, at present, 90 printed materials of the Jehovah's Witnesses, as well as eight materials on the prohibition of the activities of regional branches, are under consideration by the courts for recognition as extremist.

As reported, the lawsuit against the religious organization was filed on March 15, at the same time, by the order of the Ministry of Justice, the work of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia in connection with their extremist activities was suspended until the lawsuit was considered in the RF Armed Forces.

So, from 2009 to 2016, 95 materials of "Jehovah's Witnesses" imported and distributed in Russia were recognized as extremist, and eight local religious branches of Jehovah's Witnesses that were part of the organization's structure were banned and liquidated, the materials on the ministry's website said.

[CHecker]

36 minutes ago, Sally said:

VOROKHOBINO, Russia — A dedicated pacifist who has never even held a gun, Andrei Sivak discovered that his government considered him a dangerous extremist when he tried to change some money and the teller “suddenly looked up at me with a face full of fear.”

 

His name had popped up on the exchange bureau’s computer system, along with those of members of Al Qaeda, the Islamic State and other militant groups responsible for shocking acts of violence.

 

Read more.... https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/world/europe/russia-moves-to-ban-jehovahs-witnesses-as-extremist.html?_r=3&referer=https://t.co/vo1cODKalu

Very interesting:

 

“I cannot imagine that anyone really thinks they are a threat,” said Alexander Verkhovsky, director of the SOVA Center for Information and Analysis, which monitors extremism in Russia. “But they are seen as a good target. They are pacifists, so they cannot be radicalized, no matter what you do to them. They can be used to send a message.”

That message, it would seem, is that everyone needs to get with the Putin program — or risk being branded as an extremist for displaying indifference, never mind hostility, to the Kremlin’s drive to make Russia a great power again.  (This made me think of KON)

 

“A big reason they are being targeted is simply that they are an easy target,” Ms. Fagan said. “They don’t vote, so nobody is going to lose votes by attacking them.”

 

Attacking Jehovah’s Witnesses also sends a signal that even the mildest deviation from the norm, if proclaimed publicly and insistently, can be punished under the anti-extremism law, which was passed after Russia’s second war in Chechnya and the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States.

Edited April 5, 2017 by bagwell1987

[LeslieDean]

Who will be following this as it breaks?  I would love to but I will not be able to follow it as closely as I would like de to my night shift schedule.  Would anyone be willing to take my cell phone number and text me updates as they occur?  A historical bonding moment!!!

[shali]

I would, but I'm working the night shift toight too!

[Luezette]

Well, my meeting is tonight. I'm so tired, my eyes are trying to tell me they want to close, my body is saying "yeah, how about putting we members to bed." 

But I so much want to go to my meeting tonight, of course not just for any information on our Russian family, but for the mere fact that I should. 

So y'all can be sure any such information will be shared here tomorrow. 

[shali]

I know when I feel too tired to go to the meeting and I make the effort to go anyways, somehow I get my second wind and I feel more invigorated - perhaps because I am moving around and talking before the meeting.  

[rbrown1205]

One advantage here is that with an extra day, more of our letters might get to them, presenting an international protest of this unfair action.

[Pjdriver]

34 minutes ago, bagwell1987 said:

They are pacifists,

Not really true, but to others it may seem that way. Good points anyway.

[shali]

I see no indication as of yet that the letters are even being delivered.  They are probably all in some warehouse somewhere.

[Omoyeme]

An hour before the initial court session started, (2:00 a.m.) I watched once again "O Jehovah, I Trust in You" to strengthen my faith.  (Watching this drama and fervently praying for our friends in Russia afterwards also helped me to temper my nerves in preparation for the legal proceedings).  One thing I always appreciated is that King Hezekiah never wavered in his faith in Jehovah, despite the fears/complaints of his subjects, the taunts of his enemies  and while  questioning his own level of faith to the prophet Isaiah.  He did not assume that Jehovah would automatically intervene; he had to put faith in His God that he would see his small remnant through their peril. 

 

That said, I can now tend to the "kangaroo" court proceedings with the knowledge that Jehovah is in full control of this matter and that the final decision can go either way.  The Russian court can deliberate "until the cows come home" but it is Jehovah that will cause the final outcome for the world stage to see.  His name  shall be vindicated! 

 

Quote

So under the present circumstances, I say to you, do not meddle with these men, but let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them.  Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself.”--Acts 5:38, 39.

I do recall a phrase that Bro. Jackson said at last year's Annual Meeting to "Expect the expected. " (Thus, I'll be revisiting that talk tonight also.)

[luisenriquereyes]

That said, I can now tend to the "kangaroo" court proceedings with the knowledge that Jehovah is in full control of this matter and that the final decision can go either way.  The Russian court can deliberate "until the cows come home" but it is Jehovah that will cause the final outcome for the world stage to see.  His name shall be vindicated! 

Thanks for your encouraging words. Correction, Jehovah's name shall be sanctified. It's His sovereignty that will be vindicated.

[Bushel]

I have been silently following along, Praying for our brothers and sister in Russia.  And after reading some of the comments, it has made me wonder, if this could be the start of not the GT but the events to cause the GT. What I mean is if they do ban us in Russia and take our halls, land away, Whats to say that other country's (part of the UN) won't start looking at other religions and desiring their wealth.  We all know Jehovah Will put the thought into them. so  what if this very thing is a greater out come for Jehovah's purpose. I mean we really only see the short term of things, But we know that Jehovah will let things play out for a grander purpose to fulfill is will. But may we continue to Pray for our friends In Russia, as this is such a Stressful event for them. 

[CHecker]

27 minutes ago, Pjdriver said:

They are pacifists,

Not really true, but to others it may seem that way. Good points anyway.

Oh boy, I agree, not my words but those of the article, just the verbiage of the world I guess. I kind of think they don't know how to describe us. They say we're an easy target but they don't see the invisible like we do. They do the best they can for a description. The article was really good. 

[Jahleadsme]

It was officially announced after today's midweek meeting at the platform that Jehovah’s witnesses have won the case against Russian government. When I heard this I had to rush to the jw newsroom to read for myself.... I found no information about that ... I'm confused... Had the case been decided???

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[Omoyeme]

Not yet. The legal proceedings have adjourned until Thursday, April 6, 2017.  Please go up a few posts to read about it (i.e. INTERFAX).

Edited April 5, 2017 by Omo_Yeme

[UpstateKate]

It has definitely not been decided. They adjourned the case and will reconvene tomorrow at 2pm Russian time.

[Sunnyside]

It was officially announced after today's midweek meeting at the platform that Jehovah’s witnesses have won the case against Russian government. When I heard this I had to rush to the jw newsroom to read for myself.... I found no information about that ... I'm confused... Had the case been decided???

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This would be super. Waiting for confirmation.

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[Jahleadsme]

I didn't know where the brother who announced it got this information.

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[shali]

If that were true, it would be on either the jw.org website or the jw-russia.org site, and neither of them say anything about us winning the case, rather it says that the trial will resume tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. in Russia.

 

On the other hand, I can't imagine an elder making an announcement like that without making sure it was completely accurate.

Edited April 5, 2017 by shali

[Adelin]

6 minutes ago, Jahleadsme said:

I didn't know where the brother who announced it got this information.

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just another brother cracking the bell ... no need the overreact

[Sunnyside]

Thought could discuss this discussed separately.

 

[Sunnyside]

Friends, from Russia:

https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://jw-russia.org/news/17040510-129.html

10:58 The large beautiful courtroom is crowded. There are more than 200 people, including numerous journalists, representatives of public organizations, foreign embassies. The hearing began at 10:30.

A little less than 250 people remained on the street to wait for the results of the hearing. Povarskaya Street in Moscow is filled with cars with TV transmitting antennas. Many cameras are taking off. From the police radios, the messages "Everything is calm, without incident" are periodically heard. In the hall, representatives of embassies and foreign organizations in the headphones listen to the translation of the process.

The case is heard by Judge Yu. Ivanenko. The party of the defendant, the "Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia", represents 6 people, including Vasily Kalina from the steering committee, as well as lawyers. Representative of the Ministry of Justice of Russia - Svetlana Borisova. The defendant's objections to the case are added together with the annexes in 35 volumes.

The court allowed photography and video recording only when the final act was announced. However, for audio recording there are no obstacles. About 40 media representatives are present in the hall, they occupy the first rows in the hall.

11:00 The court refused to accept a counterclaim on recognizing the actions of the Ministry of Justice as political repressions. The judge considered accepting objections to the claim as a sufficient measure of defense for the defendant.

11:15 Representatives of Jehovah's Witnesses petition for admission to participate in the case representatives of all 395 local religious organizations. Lawyer Zhenkov: "If believers across Russia are deprived of their rights, let them hear it here in court." Local religious organizations, contrary to the logic of the Ministry of Justice, are not structural units of each other, but independent legal entities.

11:20 Lawyer Omelchenko gives an example: "According to the logic of the Ministry of Justice, it turns out, we must pass a sentence: Shoot the ataman. And his whole platoon. "

11:25 The court refused to involve 395 local organizations in the case as co-defendants.

11:30 Jehovah's Witnesses asked the court to authorize the audiotransmission of the court session. The court refused.

11:35 Lawyers for Jehovah's Witnesses ask the court to postpone the hearing until a decision is made in another case in another court. It is about appealing in court the orders of the Ministry of Justice to suspend the activities of organizations .

11:42 The Ministry of Justice objects because it believes that the agency had every right to suspend the activities of the organizations.

11:45 The court refused to adjourn the hearing.

11:50 am Lawyer Omelchenko petitioned to leave the suit of the Ministry of Justice without consideration. The plaintiff did not observe the pre-trial order of settlement of claims to 395 communities of Jehovah's Witnesses. Before issuing a claim for the liquidation of 395 local religious organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses, the state bodies, according to the law, were to issue official warnings to each of them and provide time for their correction.

11:55 The second reason for abandonment of this claim is that similar cases of liquidation and recognition of "extremist" 2 of 395 local organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses (in Karachaevo-Cherkessia and the Samara region) are already being considered in Russian courts.

12:05 The court refused to satisfy the petition to leave without consideration.

12:10 Representatives of Jehovah's Witnesses are asked to postpone the hearing for one week due to the fact that the Ministry of Justice filed the claim to the respondent untimely. It was received by mail only on March 28, 2017. In addition, the Ministry of Justice did not provide the defendant with all the documents specified in the appendices to the statement of claim.

12:17 The Ministry of Justice does not object to the adjournment of the case.

12:19 The court refused to adjourn the case.

12:20 Zhenkov's lawyer solicits the suspension of the case due to the fact that a number of Russian courts have submitted applications to consider the court decisions that came into force on newly discovered circumstances. This is a review of the cases that have entered into force for the liquidation of 8 local religious organizations (MPOs) and the introduction of 88 publications of Jehovah's Witnesses in the FEMC. The fact is that all those decisions of the courts were made without involving the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, since the Ministry of Justice insisted that the decisions of the courts against the LROs did not affect the rights of the Jehovah's Witnesses Administrative Center in Russia. In this case, the Ministry of Justice changed its position and now all the charges brought against the LRO are made to the Management Center.

12:30 The Justice Ministry objects to the suspension, considering that the same lawyers as those involved in the liquidation of MPOs participated in cases involving the MPO.

12:33 The court retired to the advisory room.

13:50 The court left the meeting room. In the suspension of the case denied.

13:55 Lawyer Zhenkov declares a petition to involve specialists, namely religious scholars and linguists, in the case. Experts can clarify whether the texts that underlie the Ministry of Justice's demand to ban an entire religion in Russia are really extremist and dangerous.

14:00 Asked by the judge whether the lawyers offer to "audit" the decisions of the courts with which the literature was included in the FEMC, the lawyers explained that this information would be important for ascertaining the proportionality of the requirements of the Ministry of Justice.

14:04 The representative of the Ministry of Justice objects to admission of specialists to the hearing.

14:05 The court refused to involve experts in the hearing of the case.

14:06 Lawyer Zhenkov asks to involve 9 foreign legal entities representing religious associations of Jehovah's Witnesses in Europe and America to participate in the case. The reason is that the Ministry of Justice in its lawsuit asks the court to confiscate real estate objects belonging to these organizations.

14:14 The court refused to invite foreign organizations to participate in the case.

14:15 Lawyer Omelchenko declares a petition to involve eight Russian citizens as interested in participating in the case, who have been rehabilitated as victims of political repression. These people are present in the hall. Lawyers convincingly prove that if the suit is satisfied, these people from rehabilitated will turn into "extremists".

14:20 The Justice Ministry believes that the court decides on the liquidation of legal entities, this does not apply to individual citizens. In his remarks, lawyer Zhenkov recalled that such considerations were guided by the Soviet authorities, prohibiting the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses, however, repression hurt people, and as a result they were rehabilitated.

14:25 The court refuses to satisfy the petition.
2:30 pm Lawyers apply for interrogation of individual citizens, followers of the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses, who can testify about the measures taken by Jehovah's Witnesses to prevent extremist activity.

14:35 The Ministry of Justice does not object. The court satisfied.

14:40 Lawyers apply for interrogation as witnesses of persons recognized as victims of political repression. Ministry of Justice objects. The court refuses.

14:43 A representative of Jehovah's Witnesses, M. Novakov, makes a petition for interrogation as witnesses of persons who witnessed the falsification of evidence against believers in cases that the Justice Ministry uses in its lawsuit as "new evidence of an offense".

14:45 To the judge's objection that these are decisions that came into force, Novakov explains that in this case a pre-judicial approach can not be used, since we are talking about different subjects of law. The court must directly investigate the evidence. Novakov tells the court about the circumstances of the flogging and false testimony in a number of Russian cities.
3pm The Ministry of Justice objects, arguing that this interrogation, in their opinion, is aimed at "reviewing the decisions that came into force". The court refused to question witnesses of falsification of evidence against local organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses.

15:05 Lawyer Omelchenko petitioned for the reclamation of publications from the courts, which were considered "extremist" and which formed the basis of this lawsuit to prohibit the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses. The lawyer stresses that this is necessary to study the question of whether these statements are sufficiently dangerous to essentially limit the right of 300,000 citizens of Russia on this basis. He draws attention to the requirement of legislation that restrictions should be justified and proportionate to the constitutionally significant goals.

15:15 Omelchenko gives examples of statements in the publications of Jehovah's Witnesses, because of which these publications were recognized as extremist.

15:28 The court declared a break until April 6, 2017 14:00.

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[trottigy]

Or you could just go to the jw.org site here ->  https://jw-russia.org/news/17040510-129.html

 

And use Google Translate.

[Daniela]

I can't imagine the pressure on our Brothers in the Russia Bethel. We prayed specifically and still praying for them. And, of course, for all our Russian Brothers. But those directly involved in the trial need a double "dose" of holy spirit.