Vegan and vegetarian brothers and sisters

[Wanda Hill]

40 minutes ago, Brother Jack said:

Adopting a vegan lifestyle is a lot like learning the truth. When you find out how a vegan lifestyle greatly benefits the human body and cures and prevents cancer, reverses heart disease, cures type 1 diabetes, high blood pressure, manages rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and many other ailments, you are constantly looking to making changes to your lifestyle according to the new information you are learning.

 

Oh, Brother, surely you meant Type 2 diabetes..there is no cure for Type 1.

[EccentricM]

4 minutes ago, Hope said:

I think I'm different in that I'm not the sort to get excited to share my lifestyle choices with others. That actually impacts my attitude towards my ministry, but that's another topic.

 

Whatever diet, decision, etc I make, I tend to keep to myself 

Different psychological functions. Some people keep to themselves and feel drained from too much expression or social interaction, where as others have a "need" to express to fullfill mental satisfaction.

[Qapla]

The Truth is a "fact" - it comes from Jehovah

 

Any particular diet is from "man" - and, therefore, cannot and should not be compared to "learning the Truth" ... since, at this point, we do not know what the "truth" is as to what Jehovah intended/intends for mankind.

 

Since there has been no evidence that any particular diet is the cure-all for all mankind's health issues - only the New System will cure our ailments - we should not be surprised, discouraged or critical when others do not embrace OUR diet - whatever diet that is.

 

I currently know some who have improved their health by "going vegan" ... I also know some who have improved their health by cutting most vegetables out of their diet. One sister I know discovered her health issues stemmed from her body's inability to digest most raw vegetation as well as a variety of fruit.

 

There is a celebrity/actress who became vegan/vegetarian who had to return to some meat due to health issues she encountered with her meat-free diet.

 

So, while the vegan lifestyle works for YOU - please do not say/imply/indicate/infer or otherwise insist that those of us who do not embrace a vegan/vegetarian diet are the same as those who turn their back on the Truth ... WE ARE NOT!!!!! 

[Gary910]

Thank you Qapla, I think that is well put.

 

I am a 30 year vegetarian. I don't think my diet/eating choices is right for everyone. I have said earlier in this topic, I can argue vegetarian/vegan or meat eating in the New World. I think we are all going to be shocked by "how it really is" in the New World. Everything we think now is a guess, except what is implicitly said in the scriptures. The Bible gives us an idea of how it will be, but really there is a lot we can only guess.

 

Thanks again Qapla, well stated.

[BenJepthah]

5 minutes ago, Qapla said:

The Truth is a "fact" - it comes from Jehovah

 

Any particular diet is from "man" - and, therefore, cannot and should not be compared to "learning the Truth" ... since, at this point, we do not know what the "truth" is as to what Jehovah intended/intends for mankind.

 

Since there has been no evidence that any particular diet is the cure-all for all mankind's health issues - only the New System will cure our ailments - we should not be surprised, discouraged or critical when others do not embrace OUR diet - whatever diet that is.

 

I currently know some who have improved their health by "going vegan" ... I also know some who have improved their health by cutting most vegetables out of their diet. One sister I know discovered her health issues stemmed from her body's inability to digest most raw vegetation as well as a variety of fruit.

 

There is a celebrity/actress who became vegan/vegetarian who had to return to some meat due to health issues she encountered with her meat-free diet.

 

So, while the vegan lifestyle works for YOU - please do not say/imply/indicate/infer or otherwise insist that those of us who do not embrace a vegan/vegetarian diet are the same as those who turn their back on the Truth ... WE ARE NOT!!!!! 

Peace and Qapla! Here have some Gahk and a Nice Romulon Ale. Look, the Gahk are still moving. Yum!

[Meditate!]

31 minutes ago, Brother Jack said:

Adopting a vegan lifestyle is a lot like learning the truth. When you find out how a vegan lifestyle greatly benefits the human body and cures and prevents cancer, reverses heart disease, cures type 1 diabetes, high blood pressure, manages rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and many other ailments, you are constantly looking to making changes to your lifestyle according to the new information you are learning.

I think it's great that you are finding some benefit from your changes. It is your right.

31 minutes ago, Brother Jack said:

You are excited and want to tell everyone... but you soon learn that most people are not as excited as you are about the things you are learning.

You should not be surprised at the reaction... You mentioned the similarity in your mind with those who do not see what you are seeing.  As we see from the door to door ministry; there are those who for many reasons do not accept the Truth because of deeply held and cherished, views. How are we counselled to talk to them. Show our disappointment in them for believing lies? Belittle their views or somehow show ourselves as having superior knowledge (even if true)?  No.. far from encouraging open-mindedness, it does the opposite. This happens, generally, because they feel hurt or are made to look stupid for holding onto something not that is not true ... then they can get defensive. I'm sure you have seen this yourself.

 

31 minutes ago, Brother Jack said:

When you try to show people how beneficial a vegan lifestyle is they argue you down because they don’t want to make changes in their lifestyle. So you quickly learn when to speak about it and when not to speak about it.

The difference in your analogy of telling others the truth is that the ones you are talking to, about dietary differences, is that, unlike those in false religion or persuaded by evolution, the meat eater is not doing anything against scripture. In fact Jehovah gave Noah the right to eat meat, if he wanted. The literature we have explains quite clearly that we have to be balanced in our diets, for sure. However it does also acknowledge that others have  responsibility for their own decisions and the literature does not recommend one diet over another. That tells us something of what is a priority, or not for us. The magazines recognise that there are also other complex reasons why some cannot eat what they think they should, even if they want to. 

 

31 minutes ago, Brother Jack said:

I’m sure my fellow vegans can relate 

This comment comes across, a little, like an us and them comment; even if it was not meant to be. We are all brothers/sister related to each other by the truth.. not by what we eat. 

 

Just an observation.. no offence meant or intended.

[EccentricM]

I think what he meant was just his personal discovery of the "possible benefits" of going vegan, as opposed to saying people who don't go vegan are arrogant or rejecting the "dietary truth". 

[Meditate!]

16 minutes ago, EccentricM said:

I think what he meant was just his personal discovery of the "possible benefits" of going vegan, as opposed to saying people who don't go vegan are arrogant or rejecting the "dietary truth". 

i agree because i don't feel ensconced in one or the other dietary regimen. It is a truth to him though. But, just as others not in the truth react incorrectly to 'the logic' of the scriptures, he seems surprised at the reaction of those who do not 'see' what he sees. It is being portrayed as the 'logical truth' to those who do not agree and as he wrote.. they are just 'people who do not want to change their lifestyle'. That is a put down really, and is not any of his business, is it?

Edited June 16, 2019 by Alan

[McKay]

1 hour ago, Alan said:

. It is being portrayed as the 'logical truth' to those who do not agree

This is what has always worried me about veganism, Cross Fit, and Amway. People who disagree are somehow less virtuous, woke, or logical than those who agree.

 

Which reminds me of a joke:

If a vegan does Cross Fit, which will he tell you about first?

[vern]

Vegan for time periods like a fast would be healthy....

Assuming it's all raw for a few weeks.

[Cushi]

6 hours ago, Duplo said:

There's science pro and con all both keto and vegan. 

There’s no con to a healthy vegan, or plant based diet, at least not on your body. I say healthy because some vegans eat unhealthy, especially those who went vegan for “ethical” or environmental reasons. Some eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, potato chips, Oreos, French fries, processed sugar, etc. A healthy vegan diet has no negative effects on the body. 

6 hours ago, Wanda Hill said:

Oh, Brother, surely you meant Type 2 diabetes..there is no cure for Type 1.

Yes, I meant type 2 diabetes. I don’t know how I made that mistake.

[Cushi]

5 hours ago, Qapla said:

The Truth is a "fact" - it comes from Jehovah

 

Any particular diet is from "man" - and, therefore, cannot and should not be compared to "learning the Truth" ... since, at this point, we do not know what the "truth" is as to what Jehovah intended/intends for mankind.

 

Since there has been no evidence that any particular diet is the cure-all for all mankind's health issues - only the New System will cure our ailments - we should not be surprised, discouraged or critical when others do not embrace OUR diet - whatever diet that is.

 

I currently know some who have improved their health by "going vegan" ... I also know some who have improved their health by cutting most vegetables out of their diet. One sister I know discovered her health issues stemmed from her body's inability to digest most raw vegetation as well as a variety of fruit.

 

There is a celebrity/actress who became vegan/vegetarian who had to return to some meat due to health issues she encountered with her meat-free diet.

 

So, while the vegan lifestyle works for YOU - please do not say/imply/indicate/infer or otherwise insist that those of us who do not embrace a vegan/vegetarian diet are the same as those who turn their back on the Truth ... WE ARE NOT!!!!! 

I wasn’t saying all that. I was just saying that the experiences you have with people when learning the truth and sharing it with others are very similar to the experiences you have with people when you go vegan. I’ve heard that from multiple vegan brothers and sisters. 

[Cushi]

6 hours ago, BenJepthah said:

Bro Jack , what has been your total calorie intake in the last three days?  And IF you were assigned to work territory in Nome Alaska 100 years ago would you have to refuse ? 

About 95% of my diet consists of fresh fruit, salad and nuts and seeds, most of it being fruit. Fruit is low in calorie so you don’t to count calories and it’s virtually impossible to eat too many calories on fruit. That’s the good thing about eating mostly raw. Counting calories take the fun out of eating. 

 

Today I would never put myself in a position where I could be asked to serve somewhere if I wasn’t willing to do so because of my diet. If it were a hundred years ago and there was a major shortage of preachers and eating meat wouldn’t make my blood pressure go up again as well as other health problems, I would do it. Today I would refuse, not just because I don’t want to give up veganism, but because doing so would cause many health problems for me. 

[Thesauron]

About 95% of my diet consists of fresh fruit, salad and nuts and seeds, most of it being fruit. Fruit is low in calorie so you don’t to count calories and it’s virtually impossible to eat too many calories on fruit. That’s the good thing about eating mostly raw. Counting calories take the fun out of eating. 
 
Today I would never put myself in a position where I could be asked to serve somewhere if I wasn’t willing to do so because of my diet. If it were a hundred years ago and there was a major shortage of preachers and eating meat wouldn’t make my blood pressure go up again as well as other health problems, I would do it. Today I would refuse, not just because I don’t want to give up veganism, but because doing so would cause many health problems for me. 

That’s a shame. Many brothers and sisters have willingly put their dietary wishes aside to be able to make themselves available to serve where they are needed. And they’ve never regretted it. We seriously can’t put our dietary wishes ahead of the preaching work. It isn’t right, is it?

[Myew]

I've been trying very hard to not comment on this topic from the beginning because diet has become a very personal issue for me with my health issues, and I don't want to say something I regret or hurt anyone's feelings on either side... but I feel that there are a few incorrect 'facts' which should be addressed.

My background and perspective: I understand why many vegans choose to not use animal products for ethical or health reasons. I've watched most every documentary on agriculture, animal abuse, climate change, pollution, etc that I have access to. Of course I disagree with the horrifying animal abuse and the damage to the Earth, but I choose not to cut out meat or other animal products entirely. Instead, I do my best to find local, bio-appropriate/grass fed, well treated animals from surrounding farms at the farmer's market or even directly from their property from people that are open about their practices and I trust. Bone broth and organ meats have many beneficial nutrients and predigested compounds that help me specifically with my illnesses, and fatty grass fed hamburger works really well for my macronutrient and satiation needs. Mine is primarily an elimination diet, focused on low inflammation and nutrient bioavailability, currently a mostly-Autoimmune-Protocol/Low-FODMAP-slowly-shifting-back-into-Mediterranean/Paleo-while-also-intermittently-cycling-Ketogenic-macro-ratios... template. I prepare all of my own food, never go out to eat, and can only rarely touch anything at gatherings regardless of if it's meat or veg due to what people add to it. Many specific plant based foods have or still cause me chronic inflammation, fatigue, pain, rashes, etc. I frequently suffer irritable bowel and constipation due to how slowly my digestion works and how damaged my microbiome is. As far as I understand it, (I have been unable to get the proper testing done, particularly in the years when I was homebound at my worst) I believe that this is mostly due to an Autoimmune Thyroid, Ehler's Danlos, and chronic bacterial, fungal, parasite and/or viral infections.

I'm not intending to discourage a vegan or vegetarian diet for whatever reason it's chosen for. I truly believe that when done properly it has many great benefits over a typical 'western' diet and some optimal uses for treating certain conditions. I do caution that it could lead to long term deficiencies in certain predisposed people if you very strictly follow the restrictions on animal 'exploitation' (bacteria have feelings too! 🙄) or depend on processed foods (as with any diet). Also, in some cases people who say they feel sick from eating meat may be dealing with a digestion issue such as low acid, enzymes or lack of microbiome diversity. Pretty much every long term elimination diet will decrease your microbiome diversity and ability to digest certain types of foods over time and cause a worse reaction when you try those foods again leading to a closed loop feedback system. For some people vegan is wonderful, for other people it can feel awful. Same for Carnivore or Keto. Every diet will affect individuals differently dependent on their circumstances. I want to discourage activist, holier-than-thou, or self righteous attitudes that are prominent among many worldly diet-centric groups. Organizations such as PETA come to mind. I wish it were easier to discuss these topics without becoming emotional or obsessive. I don't want to be influenced by my emotions when it comes to diet, but rather be reasonable and able to understand the facts.

(Romans 14:1) Welcome the man having weaknesses in his faith, but do not pass judgment on differing opinions.
(Romans 14:3-6) Let the one eating not look down on the one not eating, and let the one not eating not judge the one eating, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for Jehovah can make him stand. 5 One man judges one day as above another; another judges one day the same as all others; let each one be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day observes it to Jehovah. Also, the one who eats, eats to Jehovah, for he gives thanks to God; and the one who does not eat does not eat to Jehovah, and yet gives thanks to God.
(Romans 14:10) But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you also look down on your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
(Romans 14:13) Therefore, let us not judge one another any longer but, rather, be determined not to put a stumbling block or an obstacle before a brother.
(Romans 14:15) For if your brother is being offended because of food, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not by your food ruin that one for whom Christ died.
(Romans 14:19-22) So, then, let us pursue the things making for peace and the things that build one another up. 20 Stop tearing down the work of God just for the sake of food. True, all things are clean, but it is detrimental for a man to eat when it will cause stumbling. 21 It is best not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles. 22 The faith that you have, keep it to yourself before God. Happy is the man who does not judge himself by what he approves.
 

On 5/6/2019 at 3:57 PM, Duplo said:

But if it's because they're worried about the animal's feelings? I don't think that person is viewing animals the way Jehovah does. They are, in fact, elevating animals above their created role (bring enjoyment to man, which for now Includes eating). Remember, we serve the God who told priests to snip a pigeon's neck and spatter its blood on an altar. The scriptures don't say Jehovah was worried about the animal's feelings!

Where in the Bible does it say that animals were created for man's enjoyment? Job 40-41 would indicate to me that they were created to glorify Jehovah. https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/pub-jwbcov_201605_7_VIDEO Jehovah mercifully provided covering for the Israelite's sins with the blood of his own creations which he rightfully owns. Sin incurs a debt of blood that must be paid through a loss in order for Jehovah's justice to be a universal standard, but that doesn't at all mean that Jah didn't feel for the animals or respect their feelings. (Isaiah 1:11) “Of what benefit to me are your many sacrifices?” says Jehovah. “I have had enough of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed animals, And I have no delight in the blood of young bulls and lambs and goats.

(Numbers 22:28) Finally Jehovah caused the donkey to speak, and it said to Baʹlaam: “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?” (Numbers 22:32, 33) Then Jehovah’s angel said to him: “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? Look! I myself came out to offer resistance, because your way is in defiance of my will. 33 The donkey saw me and tried to turn away from me these three times. Supposing it had not turned away from me! By now I would have killed you and let the donkey live.”
(Proverbs 12:10) The righteous one takes care of his domestic animals, But even the mercy of the wicked is cruel.
(Genesis 33:13-14) 13 But he said to him: “My lord is aware that the children are delicate and that in my care are sheep and cattle nursing their young. If they are driven too quickly for one day, then the whole flock will die. 14 Let my lord, please, go on ahead of his servant, but I will continue the journey more slowly at the pace of my livestock and of the children until I come to my lord at Seʹir.”
(Exodus 23:12) “Six days you are to do your work; but on the seventh day, you are to cease from your labor, in order that your bull and your donkey may rest and the son of your slave girl and the foreign resident may refresh themselves.
(Deuteronomy 22:4) “If you see your brother’s donkey or his bull fall down on the road, you must not deliberately ignore it. You should without fail help him raise the animal up.
(Deuteronomy 22:10) “You must not plow with a bull and a donkey together.
(Deuteronomy 25:4) “You must not muzzle a bull when it is threshing out grain.
(Jonah 4:11) Should I not also feel sorry for Ninʹe·veh the great city, in which there are more than 120,000 men who do not even know right from wrong, as well as their many animals?”
 

On 5/6/2019 at 10:34 PM, Brother Jack said:

People are also taught that too much sugar from fruit is bad. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Fructose, the natural sugar in fruit is ideal for the body. It’s the processed sugar found in deserts, soda and candy that you should worry about.

I personally have suffered many problems when I eat too much fructose in a day or indulge in it too frequently. I now only do it exclusively in the form of whole low-fructose fruit with fiber to buffer it, but still have issues. I had liver toxicity from the meds that I used to take, as well as adrenal and thyroid dysfunction. It can still very quickly lead me back into carbohydrate addiction (cravings) from blood sugar spikes and crashes, impaired cognition and digestive issues if I don't keep it strictly in check. Years ago when I was mostly transitioned off of a SAD diet and trying to manage a better one, I was addicted to bananas, kiwi, mango, pineapple (a lot of high sugar tropical fruits), eating around 3 bananas per day and fruit smoothies every morning, honey too sometimes... it was horrible for my autoimmune and mental disorders. I would just rush from one craving to the next with my blood sugar swinging up and down all day long such that it would induce manic episodes.

These scriptures also give me a bit of pause:
(Proverbs 25:16) If you find honey, eat only what you need, For if you take too much, you may vomit it up.
Honey could also refer to fruits:
(Proverbs 25:27) It is not good to eat too much honey,
(2 Chronicles 31:5) As soon as the order was issued, the Israelites gave in great quantities the firstfruits of the grain, new wine, oil, and honey, and of all the produce of the field; they brought in abundantly the tenth of everything.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1984127#h=18 Evidently, the honey meant here was not that of bees but the syrup of fruits. Otherwise, it could not have been included among “firstfruits.” (Leviticus 2:12;2 Chronicles 31:5) Since fruit honey could ferment, it was unacceptable as an offering upon the altar.
 

On 5/22/2019 at 3:24 AM, Naturale said:

The reality is that it is detrimental to health to eat meat and no veg whereas it is not detrimental to health to eat veg and no meat.

On 5/22/2019 at 1:14 PM, Naturale said:

It is still a fact that some diets are better for health than others and eating only meat and nothing else is not good for anyone.

Please do a little quick research on the Inuit. They are a lovely people who were far healthier before their diet was ruined by our culture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr9nwtu9Ph8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isIw2AN_-XU
 

On 6/5/2019 at 3:02 PM, Naturale said:

 It's just a fact that meat was rarely eaten and was reserved for special occasions such as celebrations, festival meals or sacrificial feasts.

While I have read of this in Hawaii and Okinawa... your quote leaves me a bit baffled regarding the Israelites in the Promised Land. They were free to hunt or eat their flocks. I'm not sure what you define as 'rare'.

(Deuteronomy 12:15) “But whenever you desire it, you may slaughter and eat meat, according to the blessing that Jehovah your God has given you in all your cities. The unclean person and the clean person may eat it, as you would eat a gazelle or a deer.
(Deuteronomy 12:20) “When Jehovah your God enlarges your territory, just as he has promised you, and you say, ‘I want to eat meat,’ because you desire to eat meat, you may eat meat whenever you desire it.
(Matthew 10:29) Two sparrows sell for a coin of small value, do they not? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s knowledge.
sparrows: The Greek word strou·thiʹon is a diminutive form meaning any small bird, but it often referred to sparrows, the cheapest of all birds sold as food.
for a coin of small value: Lit., “for an assarion,” which was the wage a man earned for 45 minutes’ work. (See App. B14.) On this occasion, during his third Galilean tour, Jesus says that two sparrows cost an assarion. On another occasion, evidently about a year later during his ministry in Judea, Jesus says that five sparrows could be obtained for double this price. (Lu 12:6) Comparing these accounts, we learn that sparrows were of such little value to the merchants that the fifth one would be included free of charge.
 

On 6/6/2019 at 8:29 PM, Duplo said:

I made an eggplant lasagna that gave everyone diarrhea.

Possibly contaminated with the solanine alkaloids in the seeds/stems/leaves/etc, one of the main reasons I don't eat nightshades anymore.
 

On 6/9/2019 at 9:30 PM, Brother Jack said:

https://plantbaseddietitian.com/toxic-hunger-the-main-cause-of-obesity-by-dr-joel-fuhrman-m-d/
"The question is, are these symptoms “true hunger,” “hypoglycemia” or something else? I claim that these symptoms occur simultaneous to our blood sugar decreasing but they are not caused by “hypoglycemia.”

 

The link above is a good read. He talks more about what true hunger feels like and how toxic hunger leads to obesity. I encourage all to read it. 

As mentioned above, I used to often get hangry and suffer from hyper/hypoglycemia... but even after being on a strict nutrient dense AIP for some 2-3 years, it wasn't until I simply cut down the carbs and entered Ketosis that my blood sugar began to stabilize and I no longer had issues with the adrenaline fueled hangry spazzing brain fog. It was like I felt clear and lucid for the first time in my entire life. So I don't quite agree with his hypothesis. I do however understand the feeling of proper 'throat' hunger. I have it right now because I've been writing this for prolly about 5 hours and I ate 2+ hours before that. Not hangry or shaky at all tho.
 

9 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

When you find out how a vegan lifestyle greatly benefits the human body and cures and prevents cancer, reverses heart disease, cures type 1 diabetes, high blood pressure, manages rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and many other ailments, you are constantly looking to making changes to your lifestyle according to the new information you are learning. You are excited and want to tell everyone... but you soon learn that most people are not as excited as you are about the things you are learning.

This comment is what caused me to go off on an obsessive sleepless tangent... because in my experience, I have learned that it is entirely possible to replace the "Vegan" lifestyle in that sentence with an "Autoimmune Protocol/Carnivore/Ketogenic/Paleolithic" lifestyle, and it will still be completely legitimate and true for hundreds of thousands of people getting those same results. We're finally learning just how significant the impact of food has on our health, because everything in the world is being done wrong. It makes one question, just what is it that all of these diets have in common? What allergic, inflammatory or toxic foods have I cut out and stopped eating? Sugar? Dairy? Grains? Trans Fats? Packaged? Fast Food?

Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." I think this is my longest post ever, something is clearly wrong with me.

I wish more people would be willing to go on elimination diets and check in regularly on how they are actually feeling and if things improve or get worse over time. Whatever you choose to eat, just be honest with what your body needs emotionally and nutritionally and do it as to Jehovah. Feed and cherish it. "Good health to you!"

 

 

 

[Qapla]

7 hours ago, Brother Jack said:

I wasn’t saying all that. I was just saying that the experiences you have with people when learning the truth and sharing it with others are very similar to the experiences you have with people when you go vegan. I’ve heard that from multiple vegan brothers and sisters. 

 

The thing is ... when you learn the Truth, what you have learned is the Truth and it applies to ALL mankind. The only way to live is Jehovah's way. It is not an "opinion", it is a fact. Yes, there are many people who do not want to listen and it baffles us because it is hard to understand why people do not want to embrace the sayings of everlasting life.

As you say, I have also heard from multiple vegan brothers and sisters about the "resistance" of other people to adopt their diet. However, diet, what we eat, is NOT the same. How your diet affects you may not be the same as how that same diet may affect someone else. It is not the "truth" about eating/food/diet. 

 

What I have found is that, when people try some diet the helps them, they not only want to tell others - they insist that it is the way others should eat. I have seen this with attitude/insistence/zealousness with those who "discover" vitamins, noni juice, protein powders, low carb, high carb, and ... yes, vegan/vegetarian.

 

It is one thing to tell others that you feel better due to your change in diet - it is another thing to tell them that they should adopt your diet. It is this latter thing that people do not want to hear.

 

To better understand this ... think about some of your own comments in this thread. You started out talking about vegetarian diet. Then you changed to "vegan". Later you switched to "frutarian" - and, when some on here tried to show concern and caution about a fruit only diet, you took the same exception/resistance to these comments/concerns that you are saying that meat eaters take when others insist they should change their diet.

 

Until we get into the New System there will not be anything that "cures and prevents cancer, reverses heart disease, cures type 1 diabetes, high blood pressure, manages rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and many other ailments" - at least, not something that works for all people all the time ... this includes diet, medication, exercise and/or the many other "cure all" things "research has shown" will do these things. There are no "cure all" treatments/diets in this system.

 

There are some people who do wood working. I like to do this myself. I find it relaxing and makes me appreciate how Jehovah created something as versatile as wood. If I started telling people that wood working could lower their blood pressure, calm their heart, help their food digest and make them feel better all over ... how would they react? Just because I like it, and I can find others who also like it - does not mean that everyone would or should do woodworking.

 

Now, if I said that telling others about woodworking is like learning the Truth - that people are not as excited about it as I am and don't want to listen - you'd think I was being a little extreme ... and, you'd be right!

 

The same holds true for diets. Just because it works for you does not mean it will have the same results for others ... or that everyone should do it.

[McKay]

4 hours ago, Myew said:

Where in the Bible does it say that animals were created for man's enjoyment?

This, from the Insight book on animals:

 

"God-fearing men see in animals part of God’s generous provision for human welfare. Animals have served man as burden bearers, as sources of food and clothing, as sanitation agents, and as helpers in the vital activities of plowing and harvesting. Their variety of form and color has delighted his eye; their habits and instincts have been and still are an extensive field for inquiry into the marvels of God’s creative work." https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200000281#h=1:0-16:626

 

There is another quote I remember that says ostensibly the same thing, but I can't find it right now.

 

My main point in making my previous statements was to illustrate the imbalance between what vegans believe versus the dignity Jehovah expects us to afford his animal creation. I quoted earlier from the official vegan website that admits the stated reason for eating vegan is to promote equality among all living things and to treat them all equally. But Jehovah does not give animals the same elevated status as humans. Veganism (as an ideology) seeks to exalt animals in this way.

 

[Cushi]

10 hours ago, Thesauron said:

That’s a shame. Many brothers and sisters have willingly put their dietary wishes aside to be able to make themselves available to serve where they are needed. And they’ve never regretted it. We seriously can’t put our dietary wishes ahead of the preaching work. It isn’t right, is it?

Why do you always criticize everything I say? I’m vegan for my health. When I was eating meat I had high blood pressure, excessive weight gain, pain in my knees and sleep apnea. Jehovah doesn’t want us to suffer. Many of the brothers and sisters who have put their dietary wishes aside to make themselves available to serve where the need is greater are not in my shoes. You aren’t either so do be so judgemental

[McKay]

8 minutes ago, Brother Jack said:

Why do you always criticize everything I say? I’m vegan for my health. When I was eating meat I had high blood pressure, excessive weight gain, pain in my knees and sleep apnea. Jehovah doesn’t want us to suffer. Many of the brothers and sisters who have put their dietary wishes aside to make themselves available to serve where the need is greater are not in my shoes. You aren’t either so do be so judgemental

To be fair, our health does affect our ability to serve. Even a recent part about applying to Bethel asks if you are in good physical and emotional health. I have several chronic conditions that would cause a burden to the branch. On the other hand, others eat a certain way by choice and not for health necessity. It would be good if we can set aside those preferences for the sake of the Kingdom but that is up to us. In some lands following a strict vegan diet may not be possible and so we might have to follow a "when in Rome" mentality. If that's not a choice we want to make then it might be best to stay where we are.

[Naturale]

10 hours ago, Thesauron said:

That’s a shame. Many brothers and sisters have willingly put their dietary wishes aside to be able to make themselves available to serve where they are needed. And they’ve never regretted it. We seriously can’t put our dietary wishes ahead of the preaching work. It isn’t right, is it?

For many it isn't about dietary wishes, it is about health.  For some eating a diet that would be considered "normal" makes them ill.  

[Thesauron]

Why do you always criticize everything I say? I’m vegan for my health. When I was eating meat I had high blood pressure, excessive weight gain, pain in my knees and sleep apnea. Jehovah doesn’t want us to suffer. Many of the brothers and sisters who have put their dietary wishes aside to make themselves available to serve where the need is greater are not in my shoes. You aren’t either so do be so judgemental

I am not criticising your choices, only that you indicated that you’d chose a vegan diet over doing the ministry we’re required, if you had to chose, and leave the work to others. We all do what we can, right? If you need to take medication, or otherwise have a chronic illness, perhaps you can’t serve where the need is greater. It’s understandable. If they COULD chose, they would. These brothers and sisters don’t argue that there are so many others to do the work. Instead, they support the work in whatever way they can. Personally, I had do to a lot of changes to serve as I do currently, too.

[Thesauron]

For many it isn't about dietary wishes, it is about health.  For some eating a diet that would be considered "normal" makes them ill.  

It’s possible that a medical doctor assigns a particular diet. If you’re a diabetic, for instance.

[EccentricM]

I think the recent "disagreements" above is all just a case of misunderstandings and semantics. Nobody here I'm sure is wishing another offence.

[Cushi]

17 hours ago, Alan said:

i agree because i don't feel ensconced in one or the other dietary regimen. It is a truth to him though. But, just as others not in the truth react incorrectly to 'the logic' of the scriptures, he seems surprised at the reaction of those who do not 'see' what he sees. It is being portrayed as the 'logical truth' to those who do not agree and as he wrote.. they are just 'people who do not want to change their lifestyle'. That is a put down really, and is not any of his business, is it?

You are analyzing what I said too much. I didn’t mean that.

[McKay]

1 minute ago, EccentricM said:

I think the recent "disagreements" above is all just a case of misunderstandings and semantics. Nobody here I'm sure is wishing another offence.

A maxim I try to live by is, "If that brother or sister knew how much what they said hurt me, they never would have said it." No one here is trying to be a jerk (at least I hope not) so let's cut some slack.