Court case in Sweden Regarding Our Convention videos.

[Shawnster]

2 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Here is a dictionary definition: “A series of photographic images forming a narrative or descriptive whole.”

We all know legal definitions Trump dictionary definition 🤣

[Thesauron]

42 minutes ago, LoneWanderer said:

How do not I wonder at all that this was published in the freely distributed newspaper Metro... They seem to be quickest in Sweden to pounce on anti-Witness sentiment. Remember seeing a couple of headlines where "horrified" ex-Witnesses presented their agenda. This particular "newspaper" is available at many bus and train stations so many people pick it up on their way to work or school. They never really go deeply analytic on any topic but re-hash news found with better coverage elsewhere. And then these so called "debate" starters. Urgh.

They are a free newspaper. They do have some in-depth articles, but usually they rely on news services, such as Reuters. I am not judging the quality of their reporting in this instance. It has been reported elsewhere, such as the Swedish Public Television.

 

45 minutes ago, LoneWanderer said:

The media even went rampant and said Witnesses should not be rented facilities that are funded by city money/owned by the city. Don't know if this part of the reason that Swedish convention in Stockholm for the coming summer was moved to another facility (fair centre) that is owned by a private company (?).

Yes, this is partly the reason. I wouldn’t say the media went rampant. Usually we want more media coverage than we get when we are charged with anything. We just don’t sell newspapers, I guess, or generate clicks. 

We all know legal definitions Trump dictionary definition

What do you mean?

[Doug]

3 hours ago, Thesauron said:

 

What do you mean?

 

I think he means the " In-Your-Face " definition.

[ChocoBro]

7 hours ago, Thesauron said:

What do you mean?

 

He meant the verb "to trump". But due to the nature of the US president being in the media so often and the word "Trump" being spelt with a capital "T", he accidentally misspelt it.

[hatcheckgirl]

9 hours ago, Thesauron said:

What constitutes anti-LGBT is something the court will decide. They will also decide if it is inappropriate for children. They will also decide how this harmonises with basic human rights, such as free speech.

And this is what happens to "freedoms" in the world.  Which freedom trumps (hee hee) which freedom?  Is the basic right to religious freedom at odds now with the rights of minorities such as LGBTQI?  Where is the line drawn?  And a secular society as sophisticated as Sweden must be seen to be protecting the rights of minors.  And then we are back to square one:

Gen 3:5 "For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”  The world decides what the standard is for right and wrong, and to them Jehovah's ways are wrong and doesn't fit this modern world's agenda.  They have a point there.  But LGBTI is not going to be around much longer as it is not what God intended for humans.  It's their choice.  We know it had to come to this point where we are seeing the courts and governments turn their attention squarely on the Universal Sovereignty issue. 

 

If this does go against the Witnesses, then effectively we are in the same situation as a dictatorship like Russia.  Interesting.

Bumpy ride ahead, but we're in good hands.

[Thesauron]

And this is what happens to "freedoms" in the world.  Which freedom trumps (hee hee) which freedom?  Is the basic right to religious freedom at odds now with the rights of minorities such as LGBTQI?  Where is the line drawn?  And a secular society as sophisticated as Sweden must be seen to be protecting the rights of minors.  And then we are back to square one:

Gen 3:5 "For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”  The world decides what the standard is for right and wrong, and to them Jehovah's ways are wrong and doesn't fit this modern world's agenda.  They have a point there.  But LGBTI is not going to be around much longer as it is not what God intended for humans.  It's their choice.  We know it had to come to this point where we are seeing the courts and governments turn their attention squarely on the Universal Sovereignty issue. 
 
If this does go against the Witnesses, then effectively we are in the same situation as a dictatorship like Russia.  Interesting.
Bumpy ride ahead, but we're in good hands.

What it means is that we’ll have to find another solution for our video presentations. It is not even sure that those videos do harm anybody. We’ll see how the court will reason.

[tucker]

There are so many areas where parents have the right to expose their own children to many different things. I once worked in a restaurant where liquor was sold. A mother ordered a drink for her child, who was under ten years old. I asked my manager what I should do. He told me to place both drinks in front of the mother,  then she could serve one to her child. If Jehovah's Witnesses bring their children to an event where videos are show, then those parents are legally responsible  for allowing their children to view the videos. If a parent takes a child to an x rated movie, then the theater management would allow that child to watch the movie. This system is going down at an alarming (good for us) rate and is publicized world wide by means of media distribution. Bring it on!

[Bob]

Apparently, Satan is working hard. And par the course, it appears to be that the religious majority is campaigning against.

[Thesauron]

If a parent takes a child to an x rated movie, then the theater management would allow that child to watch the movie.

 Not here. The theatre would deny the child entry if the child is under 11 when trying to see a film with a 15 yo age limit. If the age limit is 11, you must be at least 7 to see the film with an adult.

 

Without a rating, the age limit is automatically 15.

[Qapla]

Where I live in the US - here in Florida, at least in my area of the state, they will NOT allow a minor into an X-rated movie no matter who the minor comes with.

 

The same holds true of drinking alcohol. I used to work in food service and have waited tables. If I were to serve alcohol to parent of a minor and that parent then lets the minor drink that alcohol sitting at the table (in public) that parent can be arrested and charged. If I serve "two" glasses of alcohol to a parent with one minor child, thus indicating that I "suspected" the second glass was for the child, I could also be arrested and charged.

 

I know this to be true because I have seen it happen!

 

Of course, what is done here in Florida has no bearing on the topic of this thread. It is what the court and authorities in Sweden decide that is of concern - they are not held to the laws of the US, be it Florida or Colorado, or any other country.

[Shawnster]

18 hours ago, tucker said:

If a parent takes a child to an x rated movie, then the theater management would allow that child to watch the movie.

I do not know anywhere in the United States where this would legally happen. 

[EccentricM]

On 3/28/2019 at 11:37 AM, Shawnster said:

I do not know anywhere in the United States where this would legally happen. 

Same in the UK.

[Old]

In the US  'X' has been replaced with "NC-17 – Adults Only: No One 17 and Under Admitted. Clearly adult. Children are not admitted"

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Old said:

In the US  'X' has been replaced with "NC-17 – Adults Only: No One 17 and Under Admitted. Clearly adult. Children are not admitted"

To further enhance Jerry's comment:  https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/X+Rating

 

Quote

Since the 1920s the U.S. movie industry has practiced self-regulation to forestall government Censorship. In 1968 MPAA and NATO adopted a Movie Rating system that is based on age classification. Any film produced or distributed by members of MPAA must receive a rating from a Ratings Board, which is part of its Classification and Rating Administration. There are five rating classifications: G (suitable for all ages), PG (parental guidance suggested), PG-13 (may not be suitable for children under age 13), R (restricted, children younger than age 17 must be accompanied by a parent or guardian), and, until 1990, X (no one under age 17 admitted.) In 1990 the X rating was changed to NC-17.

 

In the 1970s the X rating concept was used by the producers and exhibitors of pornographic movies as a promotional device. Though these films were not MPAA productions and the producers could not submit their films for review, the X rating was not trademarked by MPAA. This meant that pornographic films could be advertised as X-rated or XXX-rated, which suggested that MPAA's X rating was a code for hardcore pornography.

 

The original intent of the X rating was not porn but was to indicate a movie was not suitable for children because it contained extreme violence, strongly implied sex, and graphic language.  Because the porn industry claimed the X rating as their own, the MPAA changed their official rating to NC-17.  Like Jerry pointed out, the NC 17 rating is clear.  No one under 17.  Period.  Doesn't matter if they are accompanied by an adult or not.  Now, how strictly theaters enforce this obviously varies.

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Shawnster

[Allabord4Jah]

My, my, the hatred just keeps on spewing out in whatever manner it likes to find a way to silence and stop Jehovah's works.  Now Sweden, is jumping on the videos we see at our Kingdom Halls, that have been already broadcast on our JW Broadcast site.  Every nation that is turning against us, will find some excuse to persecute and try to stop the work.  They are so blinded by their invisible host that they can't fan tom that our work, no matter what form it is will every stop.  Russia, it's pal China, and all it's allies, I don't think Sweden is an Allie, but you never know now a days. 

[Thesauron]

This week we were made fun because of this trial of on a satirical news show on national television. It was factually wrong and more like bullying. But the sad thing is that many people distrust real news media so much that they actually prefer to get their news from shows like these.

[Allabord4Jah]

16 hours ago, Shawnster said:

To further enhance Jerry's comment:  https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/X+Rating

 

 

The original intent of the X rating was not porn but was to indicate a movie was not suitable for children because it contained extreme violence, strongly implied sex, and graphic language.  Because the porn industry claimed the X rating as their own, the MPAA changed their official rating to NC-17.  Like Jerry pointed out, the NC 17 rating is clear.  No one under 17.  Period.  Doesn't matter if they are accompanied by an adult or not.  Now, how strictly theaters enforce this obviously varies.

 

This is good to know, it's been around for awhile now, but we had Bethel speaker last Saturday, and he was talking about :"Storytelling" and one story he mentioned was this show that you can only get on Netflix and or HBO, it is rated MA only.  Mature Audience/nudity, violence, incest, sexual immorality/homosexuality/forms of porno, curse/cussing words.    The show he mentioned was "Games of Thrones."  They may have to update the rating system, because people are not paying any attention to it. 

[Thesauron]

This is good to know, it's been around for awhile now, but we had Bethel speaker last Saturday, and he was talking about :"Storytelling" and one story he mentioned was this show that you can only get on Netflix and or HBO, it is rated MA only.  Mature Audience/nudity, violence, incest, sexual immorality/homosexuality/forms of porno, curse/cussing words.    The show he mentioned was "Games of Thrones."  They may have to update the rating system, because people are not paying any attention to it. 

Here ratings are only for films shown in theatres, not tv content or streamed content.

[hatcheckgirl]

9 hours ago, Thesauron said:

This week we were made fun because of this trial of on a satirical news show 

Ironic that freedom of speech and freedom of religion and freedom to worship without discrimination is not applied equally in the world. Do the Swedish satirical shows also think the Muslim religion is fair game? Charlie Hebdo tried. Bad outcomes all round. 

 

I know the point here here is regarding minors, and their exposure to anti LGBTI “propaganda “.  So, if they start with our videos, then they may as well keep going and check our meetings too. 

 

Film ratings are being used as a form of covert control in a liberal country that doesn’t tolerate discrimination. Unless it’s about us, as the satirical news show has shown.  

[Thesauron]

Ironic that freedom of speech and freedom of religion and freedom to worship without discrimination is not applied equally in the world. Do the Swedish satirical shows also think the Muslim religion is fair game? Charlie Hebdo tried. Bad outcomes all round. 
 
I know the point here here is regarding minors, and their exposure to anti LGBTI “propaganda “.  So, if they start with our videos, then they may as well keep going and check our meetings too. 
 
Film ratings are being used as a form of covert control in a liberal country that doesn’t tolerate discrimination. Unless it’s about us, as the satirical news show has shown.  

Freedom of speech and freedom of religions are both freedoms in relationship to the State, both here and in the US. When the State discriminates against us, we speak up.

Some satirical shows feel that every major religion is fair game. Many satirists do not dare to make fun of the Muslim faith, because they know they run a real risk of getting killed. We, on the other hand, don’t kill people for making fun of us.

Film ratings aren’t a very covert control method. Both here and in the US, they are made to protect vulnerable young people. Whether the court feels we broke the law when showing these films remains to be seen. Apostates feel this might be a big win for them. I believe they will be sorely disappointed.

[hatcheckgirl]

As usual, your logic shines through Johan. You’re right. We don’t know how this will go. I’ve mentioned one way this could be manipulated by the powers that be to limit our activity via the videos shown at public meetings. And the protection of vulnerable people does not obviously extend to anyone who may feel bullied by the satirical news show. Here is where the logic part fails, and there is the opportunity for this to go pear shaped, in a world run by Satan.

 

 

But we know Jehovah finds a way out for us.

[Thesauron]

As usual, your logic shines through Johan. You’re right. We don’t know how this will go. I’ve mentioned one way this could be manipulated by the powers that be to limit our activity via the videos shown at public meetings. And the protection of vulnerable people does not obviously extend to anyone who may feel bullied by the satirical news show. Here is where the logic part fails, and there is the opportunity for this to go pear shaped, in a world run by Satan.
 
 
But we know Jehovah finds a way out for us.

We just have to wait and see.

Of course, a satirical news show isn’t funny when it resorts to bullying. But then again, we have to take it for what it is - uninformed cheap shots. We shake it off the way we do rude people we meet in the ministry. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, many people are more prone to believe these shows than real news media. So, that’s a real danger.

(On the other hand, we probably don’t want to live in a society anyway where people are forbidden to make fun of us, do we?)

[EccentricM]

The more rejection we have, the closer we are. It's all going to get real hot, real quick. The timing of the Slave officialy announcing the KOTN is not for nothing. The Slave preparing us for the tribulation is not for nothing. I mean look at the timing of the Slave a couple or so years back releasing videos to prepare us for police or military disruptions and persecutions. Some people (and many apostates) saw it as "over the top fear mongering", and then just a little while after.. the Russian governments started busting down the Kingdom Halls over there with forces that looked like they were taken out of the dramas and put into real life.

 

Can we expect anything less in these times? Jesus wasn't joking or making some "passing statement" when he said "difficult times hard to deal with will be here", with "men advancing from bad to worse", and "decieving whilst being decieved".

Edited March 31, 2019 by EccentricM

[hatcheckgirl]

Regardless of the society we live under, whether liberal ones or not, we will be hated by their residents due to John 15:18, 19.  So we can see the seeds of this hatred seeping into the culture of more liberal societies even now,  because eventually we expect to be banned and persecuted like other lands.

 

In the past, the more liberal societies, such as the US,  allowed the work to be re-started in the late 1800's.  It served its purpose, as the truth could hardly be expected to have seeded and grown in the repressed Tsarist regime, for instance.  Now, though, liberal societies pay lip service to the morals of the Bible.  It is incredulous, sometimes, how insane things are heading morally speaking, in the more liberal lands.  It's getting to the point where there is a court case in Sweden regarding our videos shown to minors in a public setting and how minorities are disputing being 'negatively" portrayed in them.

[JennyM]

10 hours ago, EccentricM said:

 The timing of the Slave officialy announcing the KOTN is not for nothing. The Slave preparing us for the tribulation is not for nothing. I mean look at the timing of the Slave a couple or so years back releasing videos to prepare us for police or military disruptions and persecutions. Some people (and many apostates) saw it as "over the top fear mongering", and then just a little while after.. the Russian governments started busting down the Kingdom Halls over there with forces that looked like they were taken out of the dramas and put into real life.

That was the remain loyal convention videos. Someone posted it on youtube and it faced a lot of negative remarks. After 2 years,  its happening in Russia, and some parts of Ukraine. 

Before the 1950s Korean war, bro and sis were advised not to marry. Then after 2 or 3 years, the war broke. Many of our faithful had faced imprisonments for years. 

 

At present , we had been warned that the great tribulation will come. Its about to happen almost every month through our watchtower, morning worship talk and monthly broadca

 

Then the watchtower july 2019 "prepare now for persecution."  Then the memorial date that was notified in advance until 2021....