Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[carlos]

2 hours ago, Thesauron said:

What did they cut down on?

It's basically testing times. Usually companies testing a new drug or treatment will keep observing their human guinea pigs for several years in other to detect any unwanted effects. They do this to avoid very expensive compensations if sued. But this time they shortened this time because the prospects of gain compensate by far. And governments and institutions have collaborated too giving permissions and approval in a more agile way.

 

With this I am not saying this vaccine is unsafe. It has been tested for almost one year in animals and then many thousands of people. If there were any serious problems with it, they would have manifested already. It could be said that this vaccine is safe for most people.

[friendlyone]

It's surprising what we humans can do when we put our minds to it. Cornering the market will mean untold wealth to those companies, not that I begrudge them that.

 

I saw on a news report yesterday that it's anticipated about one third of people in a certain country will probably refuse a vaccination. Their choice of course,  but it'll be sad if by refusing it they then go on to catch covid, and transmit it on to someone else who isn't protected.

[Lee49]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/coronavirus-vaccine-russia-says-its-vaccine-is-92percent-effective.html

 

Russia says its coronavirus vaccine is 92% effective, as battle to beat Western drugmakers heats up

 

 The announcement by Russia’s sovereign wealth fund RDIF came two days after U.S. pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech said their vaccine was more than 90% effective in phase three trials.

 RDIF said the early results from its late-stage phase three clinical trial of the vaccine, called “Sputnik V,” showed that its efficacy was “based on the 20 confirmed Covid-19 cases split between vaccinated individuals and those who received the placebo.”

[Qapla]

11 hours ago, carlos said:

They do this to avoid very expensive compensations if sued

 

It is entirely possible various Governments will enact rules/legislation for litigation protection for C-19 vaccine producers - making it impossible to sue if the vaccine ends up with unanticipated long-term effects that could not be "simulated" in the rapid creation and deployment of such a vaccine.

 

[Fallbrookian]

1 hour ago, Qapla said:

 

It is entirely possible various Governments will enact rules/legislation for litigation protection for C-19 vaccine producers - making it impossible to sue if the vaccine ends up with unanticipated long-term effects that could not be "simulated" in the rapid creation and deployment of such a vaccine.

 

There already is protection for the vaccine producers. It's VICP (vaccine injury compensation program). This program was created in the 1980's because of lawsuits against vaccine companies. As of October 2019, $4.2 billion in compensation has been awarded.

[Janek]

8 hours ago, Lee49 said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/coronavirus-vaccine-russia-says-its-vaccine-is-92percent-effective.html

 

Russia says its coronavirus vaccine is 92% effective, as battle to beat Western drugmakers heats up

 

 The announcement by Russia’s sovereign wealth fund RDIF came two days after U.S. pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech said their vaccine was more than 90% effective in phase three trials.

 RDIF said the early results from its late-stage phase three clinical trial of the vaccine, called “Sputnik V,” showed that its efficacy was “based on the 20 confirmed Covid-19 cases split between vaccinated individuals and those who received the placebo.”

But their doctors who were given the vaccine got infected with Covid-19. They claim they were infected prior to the infection but the Russian are known for being notorious liars.

[Janek]

Let me explain what actually happened:

Pfizer claims that they have a vaccine that works in 90% of cases*. It is more important what they did not say rather than what they said.

*[What that 90% actually means? That it protects 9 people out of 10 from being infected or from being ill? If it is the latter one, then 8 people per 10 won't have any symptoms at all. That means we risk taking untested drug to minimise the risk of being ill from 80% to 90%. Is it worth it? And that is after the second dose. How long does it protect from Covid, because we know that the level of Covid antibodies drops with time? Has it been tested on children?]

What is done:

Pre-phase trials (in vitro, testing on animals)

Phase 1 - Testing on a few dozens of people (testing if the vaccine won't harm them)

Phase 2 - Testing on a couple of hundreds people if the vaccine work. No blind tests with placebo at this stage. The test group is carefully selected. All know what they got administered.

What is NOT done:

Phase 3 - Testing on dozens of thousands of people with placebo, in variety of groups, populations, virus mutations, etc. when they check how the vaccine works in short-term periods. Once this is accomplished, now it can be registered as a proper drug.

Phase 4 - Never-ending testing after the vaccine is used to find out long-term problems and complications.

At the moment Pfizer has not published any papers and their claims are purely marketing slogans for business gains.

There are over 150 other vaccines being tested now.

Russia and China decided not to follow Western scientific methods. As far as I know China already has a vaccine and they vaccinated the whole army.

[EDIT]

I forgot to mention that Pfizer was caught on bribing doctors in the past.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Janek

[Old]

1 hour ago, Janek said:

But their doctors who were given the vaccine got infected with Covid-19. They claim they were infected prior to the infection but the Russian are known for being notorious liars.

I don't believe they have cornered the notorious liar market.

[Janek]

1 minute ago, Old said:

I don't believe they have cornered the notorious liar market.

The West lies for money, the Chine lie to preserve the face and they don't care about people as they produce them in billions. The Russians lie because their government wants to be seen as the best. It is done mainly for internal purpose. It is the lie for their internal market.

[McKay]

19 minutes ago, Old said:

I don't believe they have cornered the notorious liar market.

Not even close! Lol

[carlos]

2 hours ago, Janek said:

What is NOT done:

Phase 3 - Testing on dozens of thousands of people with placebo, in variety of groups, populations, virus mutations, etc. when they check how the vaccine works in short-term periods. Once this is accomplished, now it can be registered as a proper drug.

Phase 3 has been performed with the Pfizer vaccine, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to sell it. It has been tested on almost 40,000 people so it should be reasonable safe.

 

On the other hand, the claim that it's successful in 90 percent of cases is just advertizing based on insufficient data.

Edited November 12, 2020 by carlos

[Janek]

11 minutes ago, carlos said:

Phase 3 has been performed with the Pfizer vaccine, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to sell it. It has been tested on almost 40,000 people so it should be reasonable safe.

What stops them from publishing the papers then? Phase 3 is finished when papers are produced for peer review. You don't know about any tests in phase 3. Phase 3 is not complete. At the moment all they say is their corporate talk. The CO sold all his shares after they made the announcement.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/11/pfizer-chief-sold-56m-dollars-of-shares-on-day-covid-vaccine-was-announced

 

@carlos they sell it in advance. As far as I know they sell it but they also waive their responsibility for whatever happens to you after you take it. They want the government to take all the responsibility. Don't listen to politicians. Listen to scientists

Edited November 12, 2020 by Janek

[Janek]

41 minutes ago, carlos said:

Phase 3 has been performed with the Pfizer vaccine, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to sell it. It has been tested on almost 40,000 people so it should be reasonable safe.

 

On the other hand, the claim that it's successful in 90 percent of cases is just advertizing based on insufficient data.

Yes, I read it. They vacinated just over 43000 people of which 93 got Covid (tested positive? had symptoms? We don;t know). We don't know how many were given placebo. What was the age, location, etc (they could have given to young people only for example, who would not got ill anyway). In other words they claim it simply on the fact that only 93 got covid. Will other get it too? Were all of them exposed? What was the period and infection rate in the area where those pople live? So many questions that were not answered. 

You can stick a sticker with JW.ORG logo on 100 cars and then 1 will have an accident and they you will be able to claim you have got a talisman with 99% protection rate.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Janek

[carlos]

1 minute ago, Janek said:

Yes, I read it. They vacinated just over 43000 people of which 93 got Covid. We don't know how many were given placebo. What was the age, location, etc. In other words they claim it simply on that fact that only 93 got covid. Will other get it too? Were all of them exposed? What was the period and infection rate in the are where those pople live? So many questions that were not answered. 

Jan, I don't disagree with your points. My only point is that this vaccine has been tested on many thousands of people and apparently no one dropped dead or had any terrible reactions, so it should be reasonably safe.  It's not like they didn't do any testing at all.

[Janek]

18 minutes ago, carlos said:

Jan, I don't disagree with your points. My only point is that this vaccine has been tested on many thousands of people and apparently no one dropped dead or had any terrible reactions, so it should be reasonably safe.  It's not like they didn't do any testing at all.

Carlos, there are 2 problems -
Reactions - short-term negative reactions like pain, nausea, etc.
Complication - diseases that can develop months or years after the vaccine is taken. Eg. search for narcolepsy in Finland in 2009, when they were vaccinating people against H1N1 flu (swine flu, which I survived BTW). There were a few bad batches that were sent to Findland (other countries had problems too, but not as severe as Finland). The only country that refused the vaccine was Poland because the Prime Minister was a doctor and she said the vaccine is not fully tested. For example, there was an Influenza vaccine in the USA that increased risk of diabetes (in 1998 as far as I remember). People will spot it after months or even years. And here we are trying to vaccine the whole population almost simultaneously. That means that phase 4 from my other post will leave almost no time for any reaction.
I was offered the vaccine too but reading the label, the risk of death was bigger than from the flu :).
You don't know how long the vaccine will last. Long-term complications are more important and a lot more dangerous.
Mind that one was not made as quickly as this one. They cut corners to introduce it. By the time it is marketed, we may have herd immunity). When 60% of the population is infected, then the pandemic retreats itself.
 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Janek

[Lance]

Well  medical interventions are a personal decision ... hopefully done with a cost/ benefit analysis..

We can try our best to make an informed decision... but some prefer not to be informed and that is their decision also. 
The danger is not to get “tribal “ about personal medical decisions.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Lance

[normadenardo]

12 minutes ago, Lance said:

Well  medical interventions are a personal decision ... hopefully done with a cost/ benefit analysis..

We can try our best to make an informed decision... but some prefer not to be informed and that is their decision also. 
The danger is not to get “tribal “ about personal medical decisions.

What does that mean? Tribal?

[Lance]

Tribal 

Is the polarized world in which we live.... with little room for disagreement or respect for another point of view.

My tribe or group is superior to your tribe or group ...  politics is very tribal ... sports clubs ...  ethnic groups figuratively or   literally slaughtering each other.
 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Lance

[James the Less]

14 hours ago, Lee49 said:

Russia says its coronavirus vaccine is 92% effective, as battle to beat Western drugmakers heats up

This is beginning to sound like the “space race” of the 21st century, lol

[Janek]

6 hours ago, Lance said:

Well  medical interventions are a personal decision ... hopefully done with a cost/ benefit analysis..

We can try our best to make an informed decision... but some prefer not to be informed and that is their decision also. 
The danger is not to get “tribal “ about personal medical decisions.

Lance, everything is a personal decision. It is good when it is based on some knowledge. In genaral I am a great supporter of vaccines but this one has not been fully tested and they make a guinea pig. Same applies to preaching. Some people don't want to talk about religion and that causes divisions too. Shall we stop preaching? If you know something that can help people and save them from troubles then it is your moral obligation to tell them. I don't see how it is even close tribalism. Some will never believe that the Earth is not flat, no matter what arguments you are going to use. Some will say - I don't know and will follow with the flow. 

[Lee49]

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/despite-pfizer-s-high-efficacy-expectations-other-covid-vaccines-may-have-a-logistics-edge

 

Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine looks impressive, but Sanofi, J&J and Novavax shots eye a logistics edge

 

"....later-arriving shots from the likes of Sanofi, J&J and Novavax may be better suited for global distribution."

 

 "Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine is in testing as a one- and two-dose regimen, for instance, and is expected to be stable at refrigerated temperatures of 35.6 to 46.4 degrees Fahrenheit. When J&J started its phase 3 trial in September, the company said the candidate is "compatible with standard vaccine distribution channels and would not require new infrastructure to get it to the people who need it.” Now, J&J is performing studies to confirm that expectation, a spokesman said."

[JudyO]

On 9/15/2020 at 9:03 AM, SUNRAY said:

My husband and I acquired Coxsackie A and B virus from kitchen workers in a "nice" restaurant in Florida. He ate a BLT containing virus either from someone coughing on the sandwich or unwashed hands! Many in our RV community got sick.

Hi, Elizabeth! Are you and your husband still living in an RV community?

[JudyO]

As far as the Covid-19 vaccine(s)....I sincerely hope the New System gets here soon. I miss hugs and handshakes and sitting next to all of you in a crowded convention arena. Those days (only a year ago-more or less) seem like a wonderful nostalgic dream. I know the last days will be difficult, but this is difficult enough for me!

[Allabord4Jah]

What if you have underlying problems, and your doctor tells you, we have the vaccine here, and you must take it.  It will require two trips, come back in 3 weeks for the second dose.  After going on Google and found the article from the Washington Post, dated April 2020, on Dr. Salk's Polio cure, it was really scary.  I was born the year he discovered the formula.  A year later, so many other companies got on it, but one of those companies did something to the original (added or removed) from the Salk Vaccine, and it was given to thousands of kids worldwide, and in the US, so many who never had Polio got it, and out of them 10 died, including adults.   Am not against vaccines, cause as a child I had plenty to scream when that mile long needle was put in my baby arm.    But since we are living close to the end of this system, it's hard for me to trust anything this world puts out there.  It's way to pushing ahead for me.   I see it all as big $$$$$, not lives.  This is what Satan's world is made of $$$$, wastes, and under the cover of a safe medication, kills the person.  Perhaps not the next day, but in a few weeks and what sort of things that will make us sicker. Even death?   Then they'll say, she had cancer, heart disease, HIV, and etc.  It's to fast moving for me to say, yes, lets jump on this bandwagon!   It may be a conscious matter to some, but one day and I think it's coming when it will become mandatory.  To me, it's frightening.  To others, it's a god send.  So far, I have not heard any good news abut Pfizer vaccine being very effective in my State.  No one mentions it except the media and news that support it but it comes through politics, like the one who will leave the office on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave in January.  Now if the kingdom isn't here (lets say) in 5 yrs, and and man/woman, develops something that really works after working on it for more then 2 yrs, and am not the mice in the lab, and no one reported dying the next day, week, months, or a year, then I will consider it  But this haste to get one out and there are several in the works, sounds like the 1955 Polio vaccine to me fiasco.  It may be our choice, but let's wait in what Jehovah says.  

[SUNRAY]

10 hours ago, JudyO said:

Hi, Elizabeth! Are you and your husband still living in an RV community?

Hi Judy..We have moved to another area of Florida, and now live in a senior mobile home park..no restaurant!