Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[hatcheckgirl]

I see you have mentioned Jer 10:23 regarding the polio vaccine. Of course, this being Satan’s system means that by default all human endeavours, inventions, creations have this scripture apply to them. Nothing will work perfectly in Satan’s system. But I can assure you, hygienic practices would not have solved the polio epidemic, either would good nutrition and physical exercise.
 

So, what to do? You have the choice - get vaccinated against the epidemic or not. There is risk in both of these options. But only Jehovah’s solution is what will fix it. 
 

In the meantime, you weigh up and make as best a decision as you can in this imperfect world. -Luke 14:28.

[Shawnster]

54 minutes ago, Naturale said:

Polio was pretty obscure before the twentieth century

This topic is about Covid 19 vaccinations, not polio.  Let's stay on topic. Commentary about polio is getting in the weeds. 

[Naturale]

47 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

I see you have mentioned Jer 10:23 regarding the polio vaccine. Of course, this being Satan’s system means that by default all human endeavours, inventions, creations have this scripture apply to them. Nothing will work perfectly in Satan’s system. But I can assure you, hygienic practices would not have solved the polio epidemic, either would good nutrition and physical exercise.
 

So, what to do? You have the choice - get vaccinated against the epidemic or not. There is risk in both of these options. But only Jehovah’s solution is what will fix it. 
 

In the meantime, you weigh up and make as best a decision as you can in this imperfect world. -Luke 14:28.

Yes it is just one example about OPV and its ability to revert to a form that can cause paralysis. Years ago no scientist foresaw that.  Despite good intentions humans have neither the wisdom nor the foresight to solve problems.  They may think they have initially but then the problems become bigger than the original.   After 6,000 years of human history, the evidence is clear. Human rulers have failed to eliminate war, crime, injustice, or disease. 

[Qapla]

Human rulers have also failed in eliminating hunger, social injustice, honest communication and many other areas of daily life - however, that does not stop us from shopping in stores, using social media, cell phones ant many of the other conveniences we enjoy.

 

We should keep in mind that the GB, FDS and the Branch(es) have neither condemned nor endorsed any particular vaccine or the use of vaccines in general. Neither should we.

 

[Miss Bea]

I’ve given deep thought to this. Last Thursday, the clinic phoned and wanted me to get the Covid vaccine. The next day. Along with my husband. (They were making an exception for him. The shots were for over 75, and he’s 74) Thing is, I’d committed myself to be on a bible study that very morning. I had to say no. Please keep us on the list. Needless to say, my husband was not impressed. I just told him I’m a person of my word, and prayed about it. (The Bible study. Let’s say Jehovah blessed me in a big way!) 
I’ve decided to take the shot. Lots of controversy, I know. But I sort of believe that hysteria and lies are running amuck regarding this vaccine. I’m taking it, and keeping my mouth shut. My, “out there son”, (whom I dearly love) has told me not to get it. It will mess with my DNA, and it’s the means to, “keep track of all of us”. “Mark of the beast”. I’m not kidding. If anything, that particular son has been intense all his life. I can’t believe he says that all with a straight face. 😥

[Brandon]

8 hours ago, Naturale said:

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/16/780068006/how-the-oral-polio-vaccine-can-cause-polio

that's incredibly disturbing. that they would give such a strong dose of a semi-live "attenuated" polio virus, and give it orally too. I guess the tiny silver lining is that, from what I read, the people who received it ended up fine, but spread a new strain of polio to unvaccinated people around them. Honestly I don't think I had heard of this oral vaccine before.

 

On the plus side the WHO has been slowly removing the oral vaccine since 2016 but honestly that just sounds like way too little too late. The damage has been done, not only to entire communities, but also to the reputation of medicine (and in this case, rightly so).

I'll probably get a finger-wagging for continuing this 'off-topic chatter,' but honestly, this is not that off topic. I may not have even heard about this event unless it was shared here. And I really hate being out of the loop...

Edited January 10, 2021 by Brandon

[Brandon]

On 1/9/2021 at 9:57 AM, Brandon said:

- the three stages of trials have already being undertaken (and I’m fairly sure, concluded too)

- at least 8 vaccines have finished the main trial stages, 3 have been approved in the “western sphere” 

- some of the drugs have been approved under “emergency use” but don’t let that term confuse you; they still have to meet essentially the same requirements as all other drugs, only the waiting periods (multiple years) between trials, etc, have been eliminated 

- people being offered the moderna, pfizer, or astrazeneca vaccines are NOT being asked to partake in a trial

- the fact that healthcare systems continue to study any and all side effects that any vaccine recipient reports, does not mean a large ‘test’ is happening on these people; the monitoring of drugs never actually ends! That’s how medicine has always worked. It never “concludes.” 

 

I'll need to correct point 4, after further reading: some people who are receiving one of the three vaccines might be asked to sign participation agreements to partake in phase III of clinical trials (can anyone here who received it confirm?)  But others are being given it without technically being part of the actual trials, although the vaccine is still "in phase III" -- this is my current understanding.

While eight vaccines have all concluded preclinicals/phase 0 and phases 1 and 2, none of the vaccines have finished phase 3 yet. When phase 2 concludes, this means the safety of the drug is scientifically proven. At the start of phase 3, the drug has already been proven to be safe and that it has beneficial effect for its intended purpose. So that's why it's being offered to much of the general public now (age 18 and up, excluding pregnant or nursing mothers).

 

The question to answer during phase 3 is therefore not whether it works but to define precisely how well it works. Will the vaccine offer immunity for a couple years? decades? life? those are the questions that scientists can only hypothesize on, but they expect to find definitive answers for, when phase 3 concludes.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Brandon

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

I'll probably get a finger-wagging for continuing this 'off-topic chatter,' but honestly, this is not that off topic. I may not have even heard about this event unless it was shared here. And I really hate being out of the loop...

But it is off topic in the sense this topic is about Covid.  A polio topic might well be interesting and fascinating. 

 

When a mod suggests that we need to get back on topic, anyone can start a new topic to continue to discuss the tangent conversation. 

[hatcheckgirl]

On 1/10/2021 at 5:57 AM, hatcheckgirl said:

So in order to make our own personal choice regarding this one, we need to strip away the “noise” from anti-vaxxers from legitimate concerns about the vaccine. Of course ,most are approaching this cautiously but are not averse to the concept of vaccinations. We know vaccinations work, or we’d have a world full of polio etc again.  And that minute risk carried by those vaccination programs of the passed are not valid to reject vaccinations per se.

I need to clarify my comment I said regarding “We know vaccinations work, or we'd have a world full of polio etc again”.  Naturale then introduced the point that polio has mutated due to some in Third world countries using the polio drops (live virus) and not the injected one (dead virus). This was discontinued. The vaccination program itself has worked, as by far the majority of the world has no polio.

 

Here is what the WHO themselves say:

https://www.vox.com/2019/10/24/20930553/polio-outbreak-2019-eradication-who
 

Read towards the end of the article to find out the full picture of where things are with this vaccination program.

 

It was not my intention to divert this conversation towards Polio, and this is what @Naturale has done. Again, this is a conversation about what’s happening with the Covid vaccination, not to indulge in information backing up your personal beliefs on anti-vaccination. It is divisive, and not helpful. It doesn’t help to clarify for the rest of us needing specific information to make our own personal decision.  I respect you have researched your stance and are committed to living as healthy as you can in this rotten system.  But we are all on the same side.  We all are praying for Jehovah to end this madness. We are all doing our best to manage our affairs with a good conscience. Please allow us to do this, without the anti-vax messenging. It will only cause hurt, which we don’t want in this forum.

[WilliamChew]

9 hours ago, Naturale said:

Vaccine-derived polio is caused by remnants of earlier versions of the live virus used in the oral polio vaccine. The vaccine can be shed through feces. In places with poor sanitation, the vaccine can be spread through wastewater. Over time, the virus from the oral vaccine can replicate, regain strength and become just as virulent as the original virus against which it's supposed to protect.  The WHO states. “It’s actually crazy because we’re vaccinating now against the vaccine in most parts of the world,” 

 

Thanks for bringing up this information about the danger of vaccine derived polio.

 

The fact that Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine won't survive in warm temperatures seems to be an advantage then.

 

[Brandon]

43 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

anyone can start a new topic to continue to discuss the tangent conversation. 

And this is why I like Reddit 😓

 

You can embed a “topic” or thread into a sub-topic. Then all replies to it go under the sub-topic. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Brandon

[Brandon]

18 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

without the anti-vax messenging

Why do you call their comment “anti-vax”? I did not read it that way. 

[Fallbrookian]

Brother Shawnster, let's be fair.  You call out sister Naturale on comment #874 by saying "this topic is about covid19 vaccinations, not polio.  Let's stay on topic. Commenting about polio is getting in the weeds".  But previous to that when sister hatcheckgirl said "we know vaccinations work, or we'd have a world full of polio etc again", comment # 871. You said nothing to hatcheckgirl and she is the one who started the polio "hot button". Why didn't you say something to hatcheckgirl, the one who initially diverted it?

 

When someone makes a controversial statement like hatcheck girl did, those who disagree just might want to say something.

[Brandon]

If I had to pick, I would likely refer to myself as generally pro vaccine, but that oral polio thing is no joke.

 

That’s why, if I was offered one of the two RNA Covid vaccines, I’d surely take it!

 

But if I was offered the adenovirus one (Oxford/AstraZeneca), I would at least have to do more research. I wouldn’t allow myself to make a ‘gut decision’ just in the unlikely chance that I later regretted it. Especially at phase 3.

[Dustparticle]

Let us all be cool about this. This virus has cause a lot of problems in the organization and that is what satan wants. Believe me, I am seeing this on my congregation zoom and here too. Do not forget, it is problems and not wars. We are brothers and sisters. Divisions cause hate and we need to show love and over look others comments even we do not agree with it.

[Fallbrookian]

Since sister hatcheckgirl started it,..... my response.  I get my information from doctors who have done the research. Dr Suzanne Humphries, MD in her book "Dissolving Illusions" tells us "The paralysis that the world witnessed in the first part of the 20th century was largely from toxins in the environment like DDT, lead and arsenic.  Those toxins seriously disrupt mucosal immunity, allowing a previously benign virus to bypass the innate immune system and cause paralysis and other clinical symptoms.  Where those  chemicals are still used today, you will see reports of paralysis, which used to be called polio, but authorities now call it "acute flacid paralysis".

 

How could doctors in the 1940's and 1950's possibly have distinguished a case that presented like DDT poisoning from poliomyelitis?  They couldn't.  Most people thought DDT was completely nontoxic and even healthy!!  Doctors were on the lookout for polio but not DDT poisoning.

 

According to Dr. Humphries, "DDT was found to enhance the release and intracellular multiplication of poliovirus....contributed to creating a monster out of a normally benign gut virus." Also  another thing....."Diet, in particular, diets high in refined sugar and flour, has a known impact on susceptibility to severe poliovirus infection." (F. Van Meer, Poliomyelitis: The Role of diet in the development of disease"...Medical Hypotheses, vol 3, March 1992, pp.171-178.)

 

 

 

 

[Shawnster]

Seriously... this topic is about Covid-19 vaccine discussion.   If the discussion is not about this topic, take it somewhere else!

[Lee49]

[Ludwika]

Well this is just me personally, but at this point, with the available information, I've weighed up the options and I see it like this : I have in the past had 7 bouts of pneumonia. I have scars on my lungs, and lasting health problems that occasionally flare. If I get Covid, I'm pretty sure I won't survive. So, for me, what the best option? Having the vaccine, because while New Zealand is in a good place right now, there's no guarantee that will continue. Especially with the possibility of the new very infectious variants already being found at the borders.

My own personal thought is that if these vaccines will give me a measure of protection, I'm going to take advantage of that. A good friend in my congregation feels the opposite, she doesn't want them, doesn't trust them. I completely understand her point of view. But I will make what seems the best decision for me, while respecting her view point. 

[hatcheckgirl]

1 hour ago, Nancy M said:

Since sister hatcheckgirl started it,

Sister Nancy, I’ll Pm you when I have time. I don’t feel this is the place, and goes against the forum policies. 

[Lance]

As followers of Christ we should have only one agenda that we are willing to die for.

Whatever personal health care decision we want to make falls under the principle of “each one will carry his own load”. 

We may be very intelligent, and very well read and have the ability to come to concrete decisions, and that is beautiful... but when it comes to this forum with over 4000 members, leave our well developed ego and  agendas at the door.

Those personal agendas do not have anything to do with our main agenda that of eternal life through Jehovah’s word by means of the most beautiful concept that of the fruitage of the of the spirit.. or we could say the agenda of the Holy Spirit... let’s keep our agendas holy.

❤️💕

Edited January 11, 2021 by Lance

[Qapla]

The FDS has set a fine example. They have provided us with the needed information that the vaccines they named do not contain blood. They then reminded us that medical decisions are a personal matter. In the announcements about the C-19 vaccines - they have not once said what they plan to do as far as taking or not taking a vaccine.

 

[Sister Twister]

7 hours ago, Dustparticle said:

Let us all be cool about this. This virus has cause a lot of problems in the organization and that is what satan wants. Believe me, I am seeing this on my congregation zoom and here too. Do not forget, it is problems and not wars. We are brothers and sisters. Divisions cause hate and we need to show love and over look others comments even we do not agree with it.

I agree, this has happened quite recently in our congregation a sister who has had cancer treatment just mentioned that she has been offered the vaccine and was pondering on what to do, the chat went wild with strong views on both side , if I had bee the sister I would have been totally overwhelmed.

[➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone]

This would work down here!

Old (Downunder) Tone
 

Edited January 11, 2021 by ➕👇 ꓤꓱꓷꓠꓵ🎵Tone

[Cool Cat]

I had the Pfizer vaccine 9 days ago as I am an elderly care home support worker in the UK. My wife should get a vaccine soon as she is also a care home worker but for young adults so she is in group 2 of who is due to get a vaccine. I still don't feel safe yet. 1 in 50 people have the virus in the UK if numbers are correct and in some places in London it is up to 1 in 20 people. The situation in our hospitals is absolutely shocking and it will get worse for the next 2-3 weeks.

 

My care home has not had an outbreak of covid19 throughout the pandemic. We have been as careful as we can but until all the residents  in my home get the vaccine I cannot relax at work. Hopefully now with the Oxford vaccine this will happen in the next couple of weeks.

 

We have had one brother die in our congregation from covid. He was a good friend. We have also had around 10 people in our congregation who have had covid and recovered. This has made our congregation very diligent with regards to safety.

 

The thing that is keeping me and my wife going is our meetings,  ministry and letter writing. It is like an anchor for our faith. Trying to offer others comfort at this time is like medicine for the times we live in. Focusing on the hope of the kingdom and teaching others about it is vital for our mental health at this time.

 

Many brothers have asked if I have had the vaccine as they want to know if the rollout is happening as the news suggests. The main thing is for me that it had no blood fractions which we were told in a letter from the branch. I actually researched the vaccine before the letter was read to us so I knew exactly what it contained already. I can confirm that I have not turned into a broccoli and only had a painful arm.

 

Please brothers and sisters stay safe, focus on the ministry that is the main protection for us at this time. Enjoy not having to go out in the cold of winter (if in the northern hemisphere). The hope of the Kingdom is the ultimate solution. If I can do something that will allow me to keep on preaching up until Jehovah's great day then I have done it.