Fake Ukrainian videos

[carlos]

I read an explanation for this conflict from a pro-Russian source a few days ago that helped me understand it better. Of course it was full of misrepresentations and very slanted. But it also pointed to some facts that I could factcheck and that have been typically omitted in Western media. My conclusion? Every media is slanted and no one is telling us the whole truth. All are pushing some agenda.

 

News outlets such as Russia Today or Sputnik, which are going to be censored by the EU, are absolutely unreliable. Rather than newspapers they are shameless propaganda tools. Western media is slightly more reliable, IMO, because there is nobody threatening them with jail or torture if they disagree with the official narrative. Different voices are allowed, so it's easier to compare and contrast. But in the end everyone is trying to manipulate the public. That's just my opinion, of course.

[Shawnster]

33 minutes ago, Thesauron said:

Political parties will want to discredit news sources when they do not report the news according to their world view. We try to use common sense and wisdom and knowledge to overcome that. And we stay out of party politics.

And those who support those parties.  @trottigy made a comment years ago that illustrates this point.  He pointed out that there are various "talking heads" or talk show commentators that will spin legitimate news reports and twist them to fit their own agenda. Why? Because for 1. They are tickling the ears of their audience and don't want to lose their audience and 2. They get paid ad or other revenue as long as they promote a particular point of view.

 

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies, and statistics. - Mark Twain 

[Thesauron]

And those who support those parties.  [mention=272]trottigy[/mention] made a comment years ago that illustrates this point.  He pointed out that there are various "talking heads" or talk show commentators that will spin legitimate news reports and twist them to fit their own agenda. Why? Because for 1. They are tickling the ears of their audience and don't want to lose their audience and 2. They get paid ad or other revenue as long as they promote a particular point of view.
 
There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies, and statistics. - Mark Twain 

Which is why it is good to always be cautious, and take in news from different sources, especially sources that challenge our own world view. And when someone is talking, you want to ask yourself who it is and where he or she is coming from, and who is paying. And don’t share ANYTHING you cannot verify.

[carlos]

2 hours ago, carlos said:

I read an explanation for this conflict from a pro-Russian source a few days ago that helped me understand it better.

Something I realized from that source is that this invasion of Ukraine is not an isolated move. It's just the most recent episode in a conflict that has been going on for many decades, where every side is constantly provoking and attacking the other. Since the war in 2014, pro-Ukrainian paramilitary squads have been harassing Russian-speaking citizens, while the Ukrainian government turns a blind eye. (Of course, at the same time pro-Russian paramilitary squads are doing the same thing with Ukrainian-speaking citizens.) That has given Putin the (much-desired) pretext to invade the country "to stop the genocide of Russian people".

 

Please don't get me wrong, I am not justifying the invasion at all. I'm just saying that while Western media is basically saying the invasion of Ukraine is due to Putin losing his mind, there is a lot more to the story which is not being told.

[hatcheckgirl]

I read a post here regarding the riches of Ukraine as being another possible reason for the invasion. It made me gasp at how wealthy in natural resources Ukraine really is.  It’s not just the breadbasket of Russia, and possibly Europe.

 

But why then are most of its population so very poor? Pensions barely pay for the basics, that grandmothers regularly have to sell household items in local markets to make ends meet. High unemployment and very low wages mean the population has low moral (some old-timers even had wanted a return to Soviet times because they had work and all services provided). And we know the huge corruption that ex-Soviet countries have experienced, while the oligarchs get filthy rich.

 

All of this shows me that while we genuinely feel sorry for all who are suffering in this conflict, the Ukrainian government has been massively negligent and is as much an “oppressor” of its people as the invading aggressor Russia. This helps me to recognise the line I can’t cross when it comes to my feelings.
 

It just doesn’t belong to man to direct his step. 

[Tortuga]

9 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

All of this shows me that while we genuinely feel sorry for all who are suffering in this conflict, the Ukrainian government has been massively negligent and is as much an “oppressor” of its people as the invading aggressor Russia. This helps me to recognise the line I can’t cross when it comes to my feelings.

They haven't always been kind to our brothers either. https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=702020514&srcid=share

[GeordieGirl]

Our brothers have also been persecuted in areas of Ukraine, in a way which mirrors the persecution in Russia and also prior to that time.  Interestingly, 2 of these are the areas which Russia declared as non-independant just before they invaded 4 days ago.

 

Knowing these things and realising that Ukraine is not as innocent as it is portrayed in the media, can help us to remain neutral.

 

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/ukraine/religious-freedom-under-threat-eastern-regions/

 

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/ukraine/interference-with-worship-continues/

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by GeordieGirl

[carlos]

23 hours ago, Geralyn said:

I haven't heard any prayers for the brothers and sisters who live right here in areas where police are "defunded", maligned and hamstrung over politics.

Geralyn, this comment is quite unfair. I think it probably doesn't express what you had in mind.

 

Every day we pray for all of our brothers and sisters and in special for those who are going through difficult situations. That includes those in Russia and Ukraine, but also those who are suffering due to persecution or opposition, family issues, natural disasters, unemployment and poverty, physical and mental health issues and many other situations. And of course it includes those you mention who face high levels of corruption, crime and insecurity. We constantly say prayers for them in our families and in our congregations.

 

We love all of our brothers and sisters and ask Jehovah to support them, everywhere.

[Geralyn]

2 minutes ago, carlos said:

23 hours ago, Geralyn said:

I haven't heard any prayers for the brothers and sisters who live right here in areas where police are "defunded", maligned and hamstrung over politics.

Geralyn, this comment is quite unfair.

Please please know this is NOT an attack on the friends! More a statement of what is getting through as "NEWS".   If you don't hear the friends talking about it clearly and making posts on JWT then I suspect they are not clearly informed.   Did I miss the post about this as I am only following what I think is current as posted by the friends in here....   Alas we think we are SO informed and quickly become defensive like it is some failing when there are ACTIVE measures at play to ONLY let you know what THEY want you to know...  So please forgive me again I was only feeling out the actual knowledge people have.  Many are so so worried about Ukraine when right here at home  and maybe where YOU live there are atrocious but denied forces making life dangerous for humans.   And please at 69 (48+yrs in the Truth) I do not need a lecture on conspiracy theories!   I know Satan is hunting our souls using the news and gov. (any gov) and I refuse to accept that my own thinking ability is "tainted" by playing politics!   Someone sent an acquaintance a video clip of Kiev to put our minds at ease (at least from media claims) what are the friends in this area seeing?  This is from Maidan Square Kyiv...   

[carlos]

14 minutes ago, Geralyn said:

Many are so so worried about Ukraine when right here at home  and maybe where YOU live there are atrocious but denied forces making life dangerous for humans. 

This is very true. Life is hard everywhere in Satan's system. Our trials are different but they are all hard and painful.

[Lance]

Emotions and Ego’s are running a little on high side..here..

Park the egos at the door “before” we comment..We can all play the game of I am longer in the truth than you so my opinion trumps yours .. please .. we are all children of Jehovah and we are all in spiritual kindergarten right now.. so please ❤️❤️
 

All the turmoil.. the lack of love of neighbour,. The wars and reports of wars … the ruining of the earth and all it’s precious creatures are all a part of Bible prophecy..

Jehovah is aware … Jesus who is head of the congregation is aware.. The FDS is aware ..

Let us all try to follow their lead with gratitude and humility as we count down to the greatest event this world will ever see… stand back and be humbled and amazed.. 

be kind .. be loving .. park the ego ❤️😇

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Lance

[daydream]

18 hours ago, Tortuga said:

They haven't always been kind to our brothers either.

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/ukraine/ECHR-Rules-in-Favor-of-Brother-Oleksandr-Tretiak-Beaten-for-His-Faith/

 

Brother (Oleksandr) Tretiak was brutally beaten by three assailants on November 26, 2013, as he was returning home from participating in the ministry. The ECHR ruled that the Ukrainian authorities failed to properly investigate the crime.

Brother Tretiak was beaten so severely that he had to spend almost one month in the hospital. The police did not inspect the scene of the crime until three months after the attack. They also refused to declare the attack as religiously motivated and did not acknowledge the severity of Brother Tretiak’s injuries. Later, the police lowered the classification of the charge to that of a minor crime. Additionally, they accused only one of the three assailants—but only after he had fled the country. The other two perpetrators, which included a police officer, were considered merely witnesses to the crime. No one was ever punished.

 

Spoiler

 

[Amygdala]

No matter how bad either side is, it is absolutely heart-wrenching to read when children are killed and images shown (as cnn featured today). Satan's system has to go! Humans were never meant to rule each other.

 

(Just realized I wanted this posted in another thread! Feel free to move it.)

Edited February 28, 2022 by Woanders

[Mykyl]

8 minutes ago, happiness IS said:

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/ukraine/ECHR-Rules-in-Favor-of-Brother-Oleksandr-Tretiak-Beaten-for-His-Faith/

 

Brother (Oleksandr) Tretiak was brutally beaten by three assailants on November 26, 2013, as he was returning home from participating in the ministry. The ECHR ruled that the Ukrainian authorities failed to properly investigate the crime.

Brother Tretiak was beaten so severely that he had to spend almost one month in the hospital. The police did not inspect the scene of the crime until three months after the attack. They also refused to declare the attack as religiously motivated and did not acknowledge the severity of Brother Tretiak’s injuries. Later, the police lowered the classification of the charge to that of a minor crime. Additionally, they accused only one of the three assailants—but only after he had fled the country. The other two perpetrators, which included a police officer, were considered merely witnesses to the crime. No one was ever punished.

 

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Did you mean to put this in this thread? This is about fake videos?

[Geralyn]

27 minutes ago, Lance said:

stand back and be humbled and amazed

My aging myself was a defensive position and statement of fact (not a brag) as I seem to attract "corrective " chat lately that is neither humbling NOR amazing...   

 

"be kind...  Be loving...  Park the ego"    AMEN!

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Geralyn

[daydream]

18 minutes ago, Mykyl said:

Did you mean to put this in this thread?

Sorry Br. Mike, I was just showing material Br. Tortuga posted in his link. Sorry about being off topic. Didn't check the topic for discussion. I just wanted to expand on the subject Br. Richard was commenting about. Taking the lead from a formidable community assistant. I'll push the blame to him. 😁

Edited February 28, 2022 by happiness IS

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, carlos said:

Every day we pray for all of our brothers and sisters and in special for those who are going through difficult situations

We all have our aches and pains but, when we drop something heavy on our little toe we give that toe special attention even though we still have our other (more serious) aches and pains. 

[Áine]

5 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

We all have our aches and pains but, when we drop something heavy on our little toe we give that toe special attention even though we still have our other (more serious) aches and pains. 

Tell me about it !!

[zoebarry]

Kim Iversen Debunks FAKE Russia-Ukraine War Videos Spread Widely On Social Media
 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=98cXig0hOVw&feature=youtu.be

[hatcheckgirl]

Since this has been about Europe, it will get more attention. Europe is probably more than a little toe, maybe the heart or other major organ. When Europe is seriously sick, we have full scale revolutions and World Wars. 
 

History and the Bible shows us there are atrocities on both sides. But there was a always a perception of one side being the aggressor. And that is what makes staying neutral a challenge. 
 

Rather than point to some worldly person’s opinion, who cherry-picks bits of “truth” to fit their narrative, we watch the news with neutral eyes. The latest lead article on JW.ORG is entitled “Russia invades Ukraine”, which is a fact and a truthful statement. It’s not worth our spirituality to wander past this fact. It plays into Satan’s trap. 
 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by hatcheckgirl

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, zoebarry said:

Kim Iversen

Whose that? What makes her a reliable source of news? 

[hatcheckgirl]

I watched that video. I get what she’s saying. We are hearing what the world wants to hear, from news media and social media, and some news is misreported - intentionality and unintentionally.  But it is fair to state this is nothing new. The Rabshekah did this to King Hezekiah - Is 36:12-18.

 

But on the other hand, who cares that both sides are not telling the whole truth? It is distracting to us and may even sway our stand for neutrality. Jehovah has stated what is true, that this whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.

 

However, in saying that, there is truth out there, and not absolutely everything in the media is wrong. JW.ORG's lead article states the basic fact the “Russia Invades Ukraine”. There is nothing ambivalent about this. So make a diligent search for good news sources, but let’s not get hung up on it. We know the big picture and how it all will end, and we all want to help each other be there, not worry about all this minutiae..

[Geralyn]

19 hours ago, Shawnster said:

Whose that? What makes her a reliable source of news? 

I usually bypass the The Hill reports but this is a humbled meeting of current "new" News reporters who normally exhibit the hubris of mining the internet's info goldmines suddenly admitting they have found a handful of "fool's gold" and the soul-sucking time it took to verify every item for the report!!.  For the younger crowd this is very good to see...  the information war has completely affected every aspect of world view.  With the crumbling of CNN and MSM there will be a new generation of reporters!   Watching their baby steps makes us value evermore the spiritual well we have at JW.org  based solidly on God's Word!

[Joey]

What happened to Honeybarrel? Did she leave us?

I love her comments!💕

 

[Fallbrookian]

7 minutes ago, Daphne said:

What happened to Honeybarrel? Did she leave us?

I love her comments!💕

 

Yes, she was a favorite!❤️