War in the Middle East

[Doug]

14 hours ago, BLEmom said:

I saw a news report yesterday where an Israeli couple were being interviewed. The reporter was trying to make a point that aren’t the children in Gaza innocent?  The couple responded “they”, meaning all in Gaza that are suffering humanitarian issues and the Hamas group, “are the same”. 
 

 No natural affection. No sympathy. And viewing a whole nation of people the same. 

 

I  understand what you're saying.  However, we had a talk about ten years ago.  I wish I could remember the topic.  But I think it was something about 'Why would Jehovah kill babies , or, allow babies to be killed'?  When Jehovah decreed the eventual extermination of the Amalekites, this surely involved children.

 

The brother said "When rattlesnakes have babies, they are rattlesnakes too".   It sounds cold and unjust.  We know individuals can make changes.  But I guess the reality is that children are most likely going to follow their culture, 'breeding' and in their parents' footsteps.

[BLEmom]

1 hour ago, Doug said:

 

I  understand what you're saying.  However, we had a talk about ten years ago.  I wish I could remember the topic.  But I think it was something about 'Why would Jehovah kill babies , or, allow babies to be killed'?  When Jehovah decreed the eventual extermination of the Amalekites, this surely involved children.

 

The brother said "When rattlesnakes have babies, they are rattlesnakes too".   It sounds cold and unjust.  We know individuals can make changes.  But I guess the reality is that children are most likely going to follow their culture, 'breeding' and in their parents' footsteps.

Well, yes, totally acceptable for Jehovah to determine who is breeding rattlesnakes. 
Not acceptable for humans to do so. 

[Rodejong]

37 minutes ago, BLEmom said:

Well, yes, totally acceptable for Jehovah to determine who is breeding rattlesnakes. 
Not acceptable for humans to do so. 

Jehovah is able to see what will happen in 100 generations, so he is certainly able to see what will become of the kids involved.

That is why we can comfortably leave the judging to Jehovah. We don't have to worry about it 😉 

[Esined]

6 hours ago, Doug said:

 

I  understand what you're saying.  However, we had a talk about ten years ago.  I wish I could remember the topic.  But I think it was something about 'Why would Jehovah kill babies , or, allow babies to be killed'?  When Jehovah decreed the eventual extermination of the Amalekites, this surely involved children.

 

The brother said "When rattlesnakes have babies, they are rattlesnakes too".   It sounds cold and unjust.  We know individuals can make changes.  But I guess the reality is that children are most likely going to follow their culture, 'breeding' and in their parents' footsteps.

 

I wonder if that was said before there was more emphasis on following outlines from the organization. Because it does sound cold and unjust. By that reasoning, I shouldn't be here either. There are examples all over the the Bible of righteous people with wicked parents.

 

I have wondered if Jehovah allowed innocent people to be killed because Jehovah knew he would be able to resurrect people under much better conditions, and because it may have been more merciful than allowing babies and children to survive traumatic killings of their families without adequate provisions for their care.

[hatcheckgirl]

There are things that, if we overthink them, will cause us immeasurable distress. Does Jehovah tell us every detail of how he will fulfil his purpose? Obviously, we are not made to handle this sort of stress. Which is why, it’s probably a very good idea to step back from the news at times.

 

In another thread, Bro Edward Aljan's talk “An Important Reminder” was mentioned (excellent information in view of this current massacre and carnage). He highlighted Psalm 73:26 “God is the rock of my heart”. We make Jehovah the source of our emotional stability.

 

The key is remembering the BIG PICTURE. “Whenever we get to wondering why is Jehovah permitting my human suffering, we can give ourselves an important reminder, to view matters in the light of Jehovah’s purpose - to vindicate his sovereignty, which we support by our integrity and joyful service”.

The talk link: https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtSpecial/pub-jwbrd_201601_10_VIDEO

 

 

 

[Rodejong]

1 hour ago, Esined said:

 

I wonder if that was said before there was more emphasis on following outlines from the organization. Because it does sound cold and unjust. By that reasoning, I shouldn't be here either. There are examples all over the the Bible of righteous people with wicked parents.

 

I have wondered if Jehovah allowed innocent people to be killed because Jehovah knew he would be able to resurrect people under much better conditions, and because it may have been more merciful than allowing babies and children to survive traumatic killings of their families without adequate provisions for their care.

Simple example. Lot pleaded with Jehovah not to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, if there were rightious people in it. In the End Lot came to 10, but there were none! Other than him and his two daughters no one survived.

 

This shows that Jehovah does not kill rightious people. He protects them, like Lot.

He can kill very selective.

For example, an angel went through Egypt to kill every first born, or Jehovah gathered two sides with Moses and Korach. 

 

As for the second part... We don't know. Jehovah didn't have that written in the bible, nor given examples that might hint to that. 

What we do know is that some children or babies were saved, like Moses and Jesus. They were key in His plan, but I don't have any example com8ng to mind that Jehovah spared a child from a suffering life.

The only one that comes to mind was the old Henoch, who Jehovah let disappear. 

 

We see with our heart, but try to remember the Psalmists' words, that Jehovah sees how we are formed already in the womb, and already there can see what kind of person it will be, because the genes of it's parents are givenand the education it's parents will give it. (or won't give).

 

Added: As a kid I was verry angry with Jehovah, when I saw the story of Noah and the ark in the 'my book with bible stories', and there was this young mother with her baby on that rock. I found it so wrong. (Still site deep with me) but I had to accept that Jehovah knows each and every person, and ofcourse this was just a drawing, but is a possible thing to gave occurred.

 

Each and everyone of us must trust, that Jehovah's judgements are correct, as he can see the hearts of each and everyone. 

 

Hope that answers it a bit!

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Rodejong
Remembered something.

[Rodejong]

The current article on the frontpage has some good advice also:

https://www.jw.org/en/library/series/more-topics/who-will-save-the-civilians/

 

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/Good-News-From-God-Video-Series/video-why-suffering/

 

 

[Amygdala]

I am finding that in my informal witness ministry, people are becoming more disillusioned about religion - and rightly so! So I bring it up right from the start. I had one neighbor tell me in frustration that she finds all religion just a waste of time. That all they do is fight and cause wars, oppress the people and engage in mass killings. Also that doesn’t help with paying for her bills now, and helping her family. It was important that I acknowledged such feelings, and totally agreed with her about religions role…but had to bring it back to what God thinks about such false claims that God is behind such things. Balancing it out with a loving creator, and highlighting his main qualities.

 

This woman came from a muslim background, and as a result of growing up in Iran, anti-muslim now. Seeing more and more of these conflicts, just brings on more disgust for all religions. So as religion’s end draws near, I have tailored the message more to such individuals by saying God will not tolerate such hypocrisy, and feels exactly the same.  

[Esined]

23 hours ago, Rodejong said:

We see with our heart, but try to remember the Psalmists' words, that Jehovah sees how we are formed already in the womb, and already there can see what kind of person it will be, because the genes of it's parents are givenand the education it's parents will give it. (or won't give).

Not to sound contentious, but if this is how Jehovah meant us to interpret that scripture, why bother with the preaching and teaching work? Why “the Bible changes lives?” Why “put on the new personality?” Why was Paul an apostle, considering who he was before? Why did Satan come to be? Why was Judas allowed to be a disciple before he changed? Jehovah gave his intelligent creation free will and he didn’t make us to be totally predetermined by our genetics or our parents.
 

But 100%, Jehovah reads hearts and knows things we don’t. He is never unjust. 

[Dages]

6 hours ago, Esined said:

Not to sound contentious, but if this is how Jehovah meant us to interpret that scripture, why bother with the preaching and teaching work? Why “the Bible changes lives?” Why “put on the new personality?” Why was Paul an apostle, considering who he was before? Why did Satan come to be? Why was Judas allowed to be a disciple before he changed? Jehovah gave his intelligent creation free will and he didn’t make us to be totally predetermined by our genetics or our parents.
 

But 100%, Jehovah reads hearts and knows things we don’t. He is never unjust. 

Very true.

 

It's not about "what kind of person it will be" but "may/might/could be". It's about possibility, the world isn't deterministic like that

Edited November 3, 2023 by Dages

[Sofia]

Early this morning the Iranian religious leader posted on Twitter in Hebrew language ( like Rabsakee talked in Hebrew to spread propaganda to scare Israelites)

 

Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, on Thursday took to X, formerly Twitter, where he posted an anti-Israel message in Hebrew, asserting that the Israeli government is lying to its people.

“The Zionist entity is lying to you, and it is also lying when it expressed concern about its prisoners with the Palestinians. But it also eliminates them with the shelling it does,” he claimed.

“The occupying entity is helpless and confused now, and without American support will be silenced within days,” predicted Khamenei.

 

israel conflict is definitely another KOTN xx KOTS pushing fight

Edited November 3, 2023 by Sofia

[Sofia]

The leader of Hezbollah begins his speech by paying tribute to the Lebanese and Palestinian "martyrs" killed in the conflict. 

"My brothers and sisters peace be upon you all," Hassan Nasrallah says. 

"We are here today to remember those who are models of Hezbollah.

He says some Lebanese and the Palestinian fighters who have died have received a medal and their families are being spoken to today. 

"If you wanted to look for a war with all the rights ethically, morally and religiously, you can't find a war," he adds. 

The Hezbollah leader asked for the "martyrs" to be accepted into heaven, where there is, he said, no America, no Israel, no murder, no killing.

He is styling himself as a leader of all Muslims, both Shiite and Sunni, and the Palestinian cause is of crucial importance to him,

He extends his "gratitude" to those in Yemen and Iraq who "have participated in this battle".

He says the "Alaqsa Flood battle", which Hamas calls its attacks on Israel, has extended to more than one front.

The battle continues, Nasrallah says.

The Hezbollah leader describes the Hamas attack that sparked the conflict as "great" and "sacred", saying it was carried out "100% by Palestinians". 

 

"This operation is great, this sacred operation was 100% Palestinian and was implemented by Palestinians," he says. 

 "There was no negative side of this operation, and they couldn't do it any other way."

He also thanks groups in Yemen and Iraq for taking part in the battle against Israel.

Hezbollah is an Iran-backed militant group, similar to Hamas, based in Lebanon. 

It was set up by Iran to counter the US and Israel, and is part of what is known as the "Axis of Resistance".

[Dages]

The talk by Nasrallah is still in progress 

 

[Sofia]

[Dustparticle]

The power pushing goes on with KOTN and KOTS https://www.yahoo.com/news/worldwide-war-words-russia-china-174238406.html

[Sofia]

2 hours ago, Dustparticle said:

The power pushing goes on with KOTN and KOTS https://www.yahoo.com/news/worldwide-war-words-russia-china-174238406.html

Can we state that Hamas is part of the KOTN?

[New World Explorer]

7 hours ago, Sofia said:

The Hezbollah leader asked for the "martyrs" to be accepted into heaven, where there is, he said, no America

hmm.. there are already few anointed American brothers and sisters over there, and plenty of Israelis  LOL 

Edited November 3, 2023 by New World Explorer

[Cushi]

Sadly, when war breaks out civilians and children are usually the main ones affected. I read a report that said 40% of those killed by Israel’s strikes were children.

 

 

[Keep Fighting]

 

*** it-1 p. 1227 Ishmaelite ***

Muhammad (c. 570-632 C.E.), the founder of Islam, claimed to be an Ishmaelite descendant of Abraham.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1200002216&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=8

 

Please, can anyone help me with this question. 

From part 2 of the video about Abraham, Ishmael should also be a big nation. Is there any conection to Ishmael— Isac to Jews- Muslims today?

 

Please if there is not just say NO. 

 

If there is I will keep digging. 

Thank you.

[Dustparticle]

5 minutes ago, Keep Fighting said:

 

*** it-1 p. 1227 Ishmaelite ***

Muhammad (c. 570-632 C.E.), the founder of Islam, claimed to be an Ishmaelite descendant of Abraham.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=1200002216&srctype=wol&srcid=share&par=8

 

Please, can anyone help me with this question. 

From part 2 of the video about Abraham, Ishmael should also be a big nation. Is there any conection to Ishmael— Isac to Jews- Muslims today?

 

Please if there is not just say NO. 

 

If there is I will keep digging. 

Thank you.

Isaac and Ishmael were half brothers. Jews and Arabs are cousin's and they hate each other.

[rocket]

Your answer may be found in: it-1 pp. 1226-1227 Ishmaelite

 

Ishmaelites and Medianites intermarried to a point that the names became interchangeable. 

Resulting in the inhabitants of sections of Arabia.
 

[Kwabena]

I just saw a social media trend that people ( mostly "Gen-z"ers ) are reading a "leaked" 2 paged document called "letter to America" from the late Osama Ibn Laden. And the craziest thing is that they are beginning to believe him. Some are even saying that they now agree with the 9/11 incident.

 

When I heard the story the first thing I thought was that brilliance of God not killing or  "censoring" Adam, Eve and Satan on the spot. Now almost everyone agree that Satan the devil is bad.

Killing them on the spot would have planted doubt into the minds of the other spirit creatures.

 

How can people be this gullible 🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️🤦🏿‍♂️

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Kwabena

[Paulo]

On 11/4/2023 at 3:09 PM, Keep Fighting said:

Is there any conection to Ishmael— Isac to Jews- Muslims today?

From my notes:

Abraham, sons
From Sarah, Isaac came the Jews
From Hagar, the egiptian slave, Ishmael came the Ishmaelites and other Arabs.
From Ketu'rah came other Arabs.
---------------------------------------------
Arabs origins
From Ishmael, son of Abraham, came the Ishmaelites and other Arabs. (Gen 25:12)
From Esau, son of Isaac, son of Abraham, came other Arabs (Gen 36:1-43)
From Shem and Ham, sons of Noah, came other Arabs (Gên 10:6, 7, 26-30)
From Abraham with Ketu'rah, came other Arabs (Gen 25:1-4)

[LeolaRootStew]

 

Cease-Fire in Gaza

 

"Under the deal, Hamas is to free 50 of the roughly 240 hostages it is holding in the Gaza Strip over a four-day period, the Israeli government said Wednesday. It said it would extend the lull by an additional day for every 10 hostages released.

The government said the first hostages to be released would be women and children.

...

Ahead of the vote, Netanyahu sought to assure the government ministers that the break was only tactical, vowing to resume the offensive after the truce expires. Top security officials also attended the meeting.

“We are at war, and we will continue the war,” Netanyahu said. “We will continue until we achieve all our goals.”"

 

https://www.aol.com/israeli-troops-battle-militants-across-073628924.html

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by LeolaRootStew

[Parale]

Front page of the New York Times, 22 November 2023

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/21/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-hostages-families.html?unlocked_article_code=1.AU0.VCQ9.1oMvOVpeTv4Z&smid=url-share