Evolution vs. Reproduction - A good illustration we can use in our ministry

[Beggar for the Spirit]

When we talk with someone who believes strongly in evolution, we might feel sometimes overwhelmed at what to say or we may wonder, "What possible example can I share with such a person that is simple yet powerful to prove creation/design?" Well here is 1 possible example. The next time we talk with someone who wants to discuss evolution, we can simply ask them to compare evolution vs. the incredible "reproduction" of life. Here is a simple but powerful reasoning that came from an article on an "Intelligent Design" website.

 

https://evolutionnews.org/2018/11/why-evolution-and-reproduction-are-unnatural/

 

Quote

"...imagine trying to design cars that are able to give birth to other cars. Although it is far beyond our current technology, imagine that it were possible to construct a fleet of cars that contained completely automated car-building factories inside, with the ability to construct new cars — and not just normal new cars, but new cars containing automated car-building factories inside them. If we left these cars alone and let them reproduce themselves for many generations, is there any chance we would eventually see major advances arise through natural selection? 

Of course not.

Without intelligent humans there to fix the mechanical problems that would inevitably arise, the whole process would grind to a halt after a few generations. We are so accustomed to seeing animals make copies of themselves without significant degradation that we dismiss this as just another “natural” process. But if we actually saw cars with fully automated car factories inside, making new cars with car factories inside them, maybe we would realize what an astonishing process reproduction really is.

 

“How do these (reproduction) instruction sets not make mistakes as they build what is us?” asks mathematician Alexander Tsiaras"

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Sheep]

Woww! That's a good one! I've got to keep this one in mind. 

[rocket]

Building further on that idea, wouldn't it be great to have a car that would update itself every 7-15 years like most but not all of the cells in the body. Stomach and colon cells are replaced every 4 days. I wish my car's carpet and upholstery would do that. Your red blood cells are replaced every 6 month, why can't my engine oil do that on it's own.

[Benjamine]

On 11/8/2018 at 3:10 AM, Beggar for the Spirit said:

When we talk with someone who believes strongly in evolution, we might feel sometimes overwhelmed at what to say or we may wonder, "What possible example can I share with such a person that is simple yet powerful to prove creation/design?" Well here is 1 possible example. The next time we talk with someone who wants to discuss evolution, we can simply ask them to compare evolution vs. the incredible "reproduction" of life. Here is a simple but powerful reasoning that came from an article on an "Intelligent Design" website.

 

https://evolutionnews.org/2018/11/why-evolution-and-reproduction-are-unnatural/

 

 

Magnificent article. Very helpful in this world which contains unbelievers of God's existance. I don't know why they are blind. No question that the god of this system made them blind. 

[Dustparticle]

Darwin saw different kinds of animals on an island and thought they evolve from one another. He put that theory into play of what he SAW. Through the years scientists  trying to prove it in the labs and coming to find out that life is more complex.

[jayrtom]

I had to put this here

 

[Ludwika]

I came across this some years ago, "the Hebrew word for evening is ' erev' It's root meaning is disorder. The Hebrew for morning is ' boker', it's root being orderly, able to be discerned. So evening to morning in Genesis describes a flow from disorder to order, contrary to the 2nd law of thermodynamics which states that non managed systems do the opposite. Order out of chaos is such an improbable and unusual event that in the subtle language of Hebrew, the bible mentions it 6 times.

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[Beggar for the Spirit]

31 minutes ago, Ludwika said:

I came across this some years ago, "the Hebrew word for evening is ' erev' It's root meaning is disorder. The Hebrew for morning is ' boker', it's root being orderly, able to be discerned. So evening to morning in Genesis describes a flow from disorder to order, contrary to the 2nd law of thermodynamics which states that non managed systems do the opposite. Order out of chaos is such an improbable and unusual event that in the subtle language of Hebrew, the bible mentions it 6 times.

Hi Sister Jennifer,

 

Thank you for your post, it was very interesting. 

Could you please share with us some references,  I would enjoy reading more about what you posted, thanks.

[Ludwika]

Hi Sister Jennifer,
 
Thank you for your post, it was very interesting. 
Could you please share with us some references,  I would enjoy reading more about what you posted, thanks.

It comes from a book called The Science Of God, by Gerald Schroeder. He is a Hebrew speaker, a bible scholar and an astrophysicist. Bear in mind no author will agree with us on every point, but I checked this out in a Hebrew word dictionary too. Other spelling I've come across too is 'ereb' and 'boqer'

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[Beggar for the Spirit]

29 minutes ago, Ludwika said:

It comes from a book called The Science Of God, by Gerald Schroeder. He is a Hebrew speaker, a bible scholar and an astrophysicist. Bear in mind no author will agree with us on every point, but I checked this out in a Hebrew word dictionary too. Other spelling I've come across too is 'ereb' and 'boqer'

Thanks Jennifer, I will try to find out more about this, maybe others here on JWtalk either have heard about this or will find some more information in their research. 

[tekmantwo]

12 hours ago, jayrtom said:

I had to put this here

 

Such a proud mom, her eyes are just glowing!

[tekmantwo]

On 11/7/2018 at 1:40 PM, Beggar for the Spirit said:

The next time we talk with someone who wants to discuss evolution, we can simply ask them to compare evolution vs. the incredible "reproduction" of life

I like to bring reproduction into the discussion as well, only on a slightly different tack..

 

I ask them, if I go ahead and say ok, man evolved, no matter how impossible that would be, how do you account for women?

 

How did another, almost completely different entity evolve, at the same time and rate of development,  and be completely compatible in the reproductive functions?

 

Whatever the odds are against man evolving, they just doubled when you add woman...

[Eejay]

2 hours ago, tekmantwo said:

How did another, almost completely different entity evolve, at the same time and rate of development,  and be completely compatible in the reproductive functions?

Yes indeed. And I like to ask: "Do you think men evolved from women, or women from men, or something else???"

[jayrtom]

7 hours ago, Beggar for the Spirit said:

Thanks Jennifer, I will try to find out more about this, maybe others here on JWtalk either have heard about this or will find some more information in their research. 

https://www.amazon.com/Science-God-Convergence-Scientific-Biblical-ebook/dp/B002BOQMAK/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1542206681&sr=1-1&keywords=the+Science+Of+God%2C+by+Gerald+Schroeder.

 

It has a lot of good reviews.... I will read a sample first 

[Dustparticle]

People have gone bankrupt of intending colleges to learn about evolution and believing it too. Satan is not dumb of fooling them and done a sloppy job of doing this.. Simple truths are free and it is from the Bible and common since too.

[kejedo]

21 hours ago, jayrtom said:

I had to put this here

 

I always wondered why auto dealers use the phrase, "took delivery." Now I get what it's referring to. This looks like a breech birth, which may necessitate a C-section. Thanks for the thought provoking illustration. 

[tekmantwo]

3 hours ago, kejedo said:

. This looks like a breech birth, which may necessitate a C-section. Thanks for the thought provoking illustration. 

At least it's not a Tesla.....that cord...🤤

[ChocoBro]

I always make this analogy:

Imagine a mobile factory on big tracks, sort of like the Jawa Sandcrawler from Star Wars.

 

 

It has a robust hull, an engine to create energy and power, a life support system, a central computer that manages all the processes, it has tracks to move around, and it has little Jawas that gather resources from outside, bring them into the cargo bay, disassemble them, reassemble, and create new spare-parts from what they gather. It also features a huge loading bay that can open up to allow a pretty much exact replica of the Sandcrawler to be let down into the sand.

Well, so-called "simple organisms", namely cells, are exactly that, but coupled with what we today would call "nanotechnology". A cell is a self-replicating nano-factory with all the individual components a factory would need as I named above.

 

And this is where evolution completely fails to make sense, during the very beginning stages of the entire thing, at the concept known as "abiogenesis", which is life arising from non-living matter, such as so-called "self-replicating molecules". Science is grasping at straws to explain this concept, but in the very end, the explanation is literally that a tornado must have created a very simple "sandcrawler" with all the minimum necessary crew and parts to make the first self-replicating factory. And at every turn where they are able to replicate even remotely a single, individual and miniscule aspect of this supposed abiogenesis with a hint of success for a split second, they consider it "proof" of their theory.

 

One particularly ear-tickling but stupid hypothesis claims that viruses came first, before cells. Unfortunately, virusses are just bandit robots that invade Sandcrawlers in order to change the production around to create more bandit robots. They can not replicate without a host cell.

 

Evolutionary sciences are just one big, religious land of make-believe, but sadly, too many people think it's established fact. And then they say we're not allowed to think for ourselves.

[Ludwika]

I always make this analogy:

Imagine a mobile factory on big tracks, sort of like the Jawa Sandcrawler from Star Wars.
 

 
It has a robust hull, an engine to create energy and power, a life support system, a central computer that manages all the processes, it has tracks to move around, and it has little Jawas that gather resources from outside, bring them into the cargo bay, disassemble them, reassemble, and create new spare-parts from what they gather. It also features a huge loading bay that can open up to allow a pretty much exact replica of the Sandcrawler to be let down into the sand.

Well, so-called "simple organisms", namely cells, are exactly that, but coupled with what we today would call "nanotechnology". A cell is a self-replicating nano-factory with all the individual components a factory would need as I named above.
 
And this is where evolution completely fails to make sense, during the very beginning stages of the entire thing, at the concept known as "abiogenesis", which is life arising from non-living matter, such as so-called "self-replicating molecules". Science is grasping at straws to explain this concept, but in the very end, the explanation is literally that a tornado must have created a very simple "sandcrawler" with all the minimum necessary crew and parts to make the first self-replicating factory. And at every turn where they are able to replicate even remotely a single, individual and miniscule aspect of this supposed abiogenesis with a hint of success for a split second, they consider it "proof" of their theory.
 
One particularly ear-tickling but stupid hypothesis claims that viruses came first, before cells. Unfortunately, virusses are just bandit robots that invade Sandcrawlers in order to change the production around to create more bandit robots. They can not replicate without a host cell.
 
Evolutionary sciences are just one big, religious land of make-believe, but sadly, too many people think it's established fact. And then they say we're not allowed to think for ourselves.

I like too to use the arch of the human foot. Everyone has seen a stone arch somewhere, it needs scaffolding until the keystone is in place, otherwise it falls down. It also has wedge shaped stones near the top of the arch. The arch of your foot is exactly the same, right down to wedge shaped bones and a keystone. If the arch can't hold together without the keystone, how could it have evolved by chance? And who designed the very precise wedge shaped bones if not a designer? I used this with an engineer recently with great success.

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[jayrtom]

2 hours ago, Ludwika said:

like too to use the arch of the human foot

I'm sorry but I couldn't understand what do you mean by this... A literal translation for me doesn't make sense.... Can you post an image pointing to what exactly is this arch?

Thanks

[Eejay]

 

@jayrtom  This should help for starters. By the way, the arch is the structure creating the actual space under the middle of the foot.  Someone else may like to contribute some dialogue?

[Chris7]

Isaiah describes feet best....”How beautiful ......are the feet of the one bringing good news,The one proclaiming peace,The one bringing good news of something better.”

What are the chances of that!

The beautiful feet bringing good news of a perfect and very intelligent maker...Jehovah.

 

On the other hand...💡 (or should I say foot) 

How many evolutionists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? None. Given enough time a new light bulb will evolve.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Chris7

[Newtonian]

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 3:40 PM, Beggar for the Spirit said:

When we talk with someone who believes strongly in evolution, we might feel sometimes overwhelmed at what to say or we may wonder, "What possible example can I share with such a person that is simple yet powerful to prove creation/design?" Well here is 1 possible example. The next time we talk with someone who wants to discuss evolution, we can simply ask them to compare evolution vs. the incredible "reproduction" of life. Here is a simple but powerful reasoning that came from an article on an "Intelligent Design" website.

 

https://evolutionnews.org/2018/11/why-evolution-and-reproduction-are-unnatural/

 

 

Thank you for the link!   Makes me feel more comfortable posting outside links in view of the reaction I got on another thread.

 

Indeed, as the link notes, Entropy (part of the second law of thermodynamics) is against order from disorder.

 

In the book "Mystery of LIfe's Origin - Reassessing Current Theories" Thaxton et al point out the difference between informational proteins and statistical proteins and show that the latter cannot come about by chance.

 

Actually even statistical proteins from non-living matter are impossible by chance in our universe since our universe began - given our 10^80 amu (atomic mass units) visible universe and the limited time our universe has been here (14  billion years?) and the limited speed of chemical reactions (10^24 per second)] and the actual probability of the chance formation of a statistical protein  (c.10^128) given a pre-existing (highly favorable) primordial soup for which there is no geological evidence in earth's crust. 

 

Reproduction is way more difficult to achieve - human creators cannot even create a living cell from scratch!

 

I have found using Hebrews 3:4 is a good introduction proving creation.

[Newtonian]

Er - I meant informational proteins (containing useful for life information) cannot come about by chance (even in an infinite universe or an infinite number of universes and an infinity of time.  That degree of information, requiring chemical language and a translator, cannot come about by chance - and even if one informational protein existed it would be useless without a translator molecule able to use the information in some function required for life (including reproduction of course).

[Beggar for the Spirit]

34 minutes ago, Newtonian said:

Thank you for the link!   Makes me feel more comfortable posting outside links in view of the reaction I got on another thread.

Hi Paul, 

 

Thanks for your posts, I am glad you enjoy discussing science/creation topics. 

As for links to other websites, everybody here appreciates a link to good website, but many of us have learned our lessons from sites with biased reporting or sites that state things as facts but are unsubstantiated . So we are encouraged to provide a link, we should just try to verify the information/website first.