Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[Fallbrookian]

2 hours ago, Doug said:

Most will completely agree.

 

I just thought it was interesting that some anti-vaxxers took it upon themselves to stage an opposition protest at Dodger stadium, temporarily halting the vaccination event there.

Brought back the memories of apostates outside after the District conventions.

Are you comparing someone who is against vaccines to apostates? I hope not. 

[Áine]

53 minutes ago, Nancy M said:

Are you comparing someone who is against vaccines to apostates? I hope not. 

Hardly....

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Nancy M said:

Are you comparing someone who is against vaccines to apostates? I hope not. 

I hope you are not suggesting these fanatics are a representation of the typical person who is against vaccines. 

 

There actually is a valid comparison between these protesters and apostates who protest conventions.  These protesters interfered with the free choice and personal decisions of people who showed up seeking a vaccine. What gave them the right to do this?  Their actions show these protesters were not motivated by love of neighbor. They were not mild in spirit or lowly in heart. They did not treat those seeking vaccines the with  respect. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Shawnster

[New World Explorer]

During our latest Assembly it was mentioned how Covid-19 become politized, and the need for us to stay neutral. 

So really how we view vaccines and medical treatments we are happy (or not) to receive etc, should be really handled within our family unit, and any views we may have on the subject should be kept within the same walls. 

 

No need to shout in the "neighbourhood"  (or forum ) I like this, but I do not like that. 

It does not benefit anybody, it only creates divisive content. 

[New World Explorer]

6 hours ago, Shawnster said:

I hope you are not suggesting these fanatics are a representation of the typical person who is against vaccines. 

 

There actually is a valid comparison between these protesters and apostates who protest conventions.  These protesters interfered with the free choice and personal decisions of people who showed up seeking a vaccine. What gave them the right to do this?  Their actions show these protesters were not motivated by love of neighbor. They were not mild in spirit or lowly in heart. They did not treat those seeking vaccines the with  respect. 

Actually your reasoning is valid, especially last two sentences. 

[friendlyone]

Believe it or not I've seen interviews with medical staff inside hospitals who were crying because of the pressures they are under. Not just pressures from doing their job, but pressures from some who ought to know better.

 

They witness deaths on a daily basis, which is bad enough, but what makes it worse is what they have to face on their way into work. There are sometimes people outside the hospitals shouting that  covid-19 is all a hoax. Maybe these people should be invited into the mortuaries to see first hand those who have died from this terrible disease.

 

It's hard to understand how people can act this way, hard to understand how many ignore the social distancing warnings and get together in large groups only to be disbanded by the police, and hard to understand why certain ethnic groups think the vaccination programmes are in place to do them some harm.

 

 

[Naturale]

Apostasy has nothing to do with this subject.  It is important to understand that apostasy is about taking a stand against the truth of the Bible.  In the Christian Greek Scriptures apostasy is used primarily with regard to religious defection. It is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God.  Apostates rebel against Jehovah and against Jesus. 

•  Apostasy

• • This term in Greek (a·po·sta·siʹa) comes from a verb literally meaning “to stand away from.” The noun has the sense of “desertion, abandonment, or rebellion.” In the Christian Greek Scriptures, “apostasy” is used primarily with regard to those who defect from true worship.—Pr 11:9; Ac 21:21; 2Th 2:3.

    Glossary

Edited February 1, 2021 by Naturale

[LoneWanderer]

I thought it was a valid comparison as to the flagrant attitudes of the protesters who by their actions caused unnecessary delays and raised blood pressures. Ie. what apostates do since they can’t let go.

 

I was upset when I read the BBC article about the Dodger Stadium protest that was already referred to: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55875263

Edited February 1, 2021 by LoneWanderer

[carlos]

55 minutes ago, Naturale said:

Apostasy has nothing to do with this subject.  It is important to understand that apostasy is about taking a stand against the truth of the Bible.  In the Christian Greek Scriptures apostasy is used primarily with regard to religious defection. It is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God.  Apostates rebel against Jehovah and against Jesus. 

Susanna, that is not the point. Nobody has said nor suggested that those who refuse to take a vaccine, for whatever reasons, are similar to apostates.

 

What was pointed out is the similitude in behavior between apostates who try to prevent JWs from enjoying their conventions, and antivax activists who protest and prevent people from getting a vaccine. The similitudes between those two groups of fanatics are striking. None cares for the truth and both try to force others to do things their way.

 

There are a number of Christians who will not accept the covid19 vaccine for one reason or another, and that's fine. But if a Christian feels identified with those fanatics who protest at the entrance of vaccination places and prevent people from being vaccinated, that would be a real problem.

[hatcheckgirl]

18 hours ago, Doug said:

Most will completely agree.

 

I just thought it was interesting that some anti-vaxxers took it upon themselves to stage an opposition protest at Dodger stadium, temporarily halting the vaccination event there.

Brought back the memories of apostates outside after the District conventions.

@NaturaleDoug was referring to this:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vaccination-protests-temporarily-shut-down-dodger-stadium-mega-vaccination-site-los-angeles/

 

We saw similar scenes at our Melbourne International convention with apostates.  No one is saying brothers and sisters are apostate if they don't agree with taking vaccinations.  You have your own view on vaccinations, but would you ever go to a stadium and forceably protest against others having a vaccine?  Absolutely not! We are united in our brotherhood, respecting each other's choices.

 

But when we see such protests happening in the world, it does bring to mind how deranged people are who feel it is their "right" to prohibit others from exercising their personal choice, be it in religion or health issues.

[Naturale]

As the Bible long ago acknowledged, we live in “a world where some people have power and others have to suffer under them.” (Ecclesiastes 8:9

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/tc/r1/lp-e/102013241/0-1

 

There have been all sorts of protests throughout history and today and for valid reasons when people see the greed, corruption etc in this crooked world with governments who use lying propaganda. No-one here is saying protesting is right but individuals in the world involved in protests can have good intentions and often see protesting as the only way since they don't know that the devil is behind the governments and that Gods kingdom is the solution.  This is completely different to apostates since apostates are people who have chosen to defect from true worship and intensely hate Jehovah. 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Naturale

[carlos]

6 minutes ago, Naturale said:

This is completely different to apostates since apostates are people who have chosen to defect from true worship and intensely hate Jehovah. 

That's true. What those activists who aggressively stop others from taking a vaccine have in common with apostates that try to ruin our conventions is not their hate for Jehovah, but their irrationality and the fact that they force their opinions on others.

[Shawnster]

22 minutes ago, Naturale said:

No-one here is saying protesting is right but individuals in the world involved in protests can have good intentions

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. 

 

Im sorry, but the actions and attitudes of the protesters who stopped people from getting vaccinated is indefensible and inexcusable. They were just as bad and wrong as those protesters who stormed the US Capitol or burned down neighborhoods in 2020.  Going along with a violent and disruptive mob nullifies any good intentions some may have had. 

[hatcheckgirl]

35 minutes ago, Naturale said:

This is completely different to apostates since apostates are people who have chosen to defect from true worship and intensely hate Jehovah. 

Very true, they are completely different from protesters who are against the unfairness of this system.  But, I think you've missed the point.  Those protesters had every right to feel the way they did about vaccinations.  That's their preogative.  What they don't have the right is to stop others if that is their choice.  That's gone past the point of just making a protest statement.  That's infringing on the rights of others.

 

Again, please don't confuse the point.  No one is saying people who choose not vaccinate are the same as apostates.  What we are saying is those people who protested and stopped others from exercising their "right" to have the vaccination acted like when apostates try to impede our assemblies.  That's where the similarity ends.  Is that helping you to see the intention of Doug's comment? I hope so.  It isn't an attack on your personal views, Susanna.  Please don't see it that way. ❤️

[Shawnster]

More about the protest Saturday.

 

Quote

 

New safety measure coming to Dodger Stadium inoculation site after anti-vaccine protesters force temporary closure

 

LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- A new safety change will be implemented at the Dodger Stadium inoculation center after anti-vaccination protesters forced the temporary shutdown of the site over the weekend.

There will soon be a designated zone for protesters to gather near the vaccination site, one of the nation's largest.

The move comes after the Los Angeles Fire Department shut the entrance to the stadium as a precaution at about 2 p.m. Saturday after it was blocked by a few dozen demonstrators. The Los Angeles Times says the protest included members of anti-vaccine and far-right groups.

 

https://abc7.com/dodger-stadium-vaccine-site-protest-protesters-shut-down-is-open-for-vaccines/10215434/

 

 

 

The video was informative.  We might have the wrong idea of what actually happened.  The news clip said the protest was peaceful, but it was just the people protesting caused traffic congestion, so the site was closed down while everyone got sorted out.  

 

It's sad, though, the signs saying that COVID = SCAM showed the extreme thinking of some of these protesters.  

Edited February 1, 2021 by Shawnster

[Tortuga]

21 hours ago, Doug said:

Dodger stadium, temporarily halting the vaccination event there.

Brought back the memories of apostates outside after the District conventions.

I remember the apostates at Dodger Stadium, one time they printed fake Watchtowers and were throwing them into the cars as they exited the stadium. We live in a strange world.

[Lance]

2 Tim.3: 1-3

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here.  2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal,  3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness,  

 

Radicalization of politics... elections.. social causes.. race relations.. stock market..health care.. you name it is there.

Will it get better...No

Will some of our brothers and sisters loose their balance in this radicalization .. Yes

 

Satan is the god of this system and he will infect “any polarized view “we have, except the truth  of relief by God’s Kingdom.. (That is the only one that is life saving) Jehovah has given us absolute protection on that belief.

 

So to see the radicalization of these things is sad, but it is also a part of Bible prophecy. 
Rejoice lift your heads up your deliverance is getting near.

Just don’t get sucked in  when some of our “ previous cherished views “get radicalized and we have to step back and see them being used as tool by Satan... no weeping and gnashing of teeth as we see all in this system falls.
 

So the question is how are we doing during this test of the last days .. the latest annual  meeting program nailed down the issue of neutrality as one of the issues that Jesus will judge us by...are my views influenced by this systems radicalization...if they are,back away, seek peace ..listen, obey and be blessed.

 

As a mandate this forum will not support in any way the radicalization of issues now going on. If we find that a radical concept. It is time to leave or be asked to leave. We are deep in the last days, our neutrality as individuals and as a collective has to be in no way mirroring the world and it’s spirit.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Lance

[Fallbrookian]

20 hours ago, Shawnster said:

I hope you are not suggesting these fanatics are a representation of the typical person who is against vaccines. 

 

There actually is a valid comparison between these protesters and apostates who protest conventions.  These protesters interfered with the free choice and personal decisions of people who showed up seeking a vaccine. What gave them the right to do this?  Their actions show these protesters were not motivated by love of neighbor. They were not mild in spirit or lowly in heart. They did not treat those seeking vaccines the with  respect. 

Actually the bottom line is there should have been some discretion in choice of words.  Referring to these people as protesters would have been a more suitable thing to say from the beginning. 

[rocket]

Some anti-vaxxer's go to extreme means to spread their propaganda.

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anti-vaxxers-wont-stop-harassing-tiffany-dover-nurse-theyre-convinced-is-dead-after-covid-shot

Edited February 2, 2021 by rocket

[Qapla]

I have the talk on the MWM this week. I plan to start out asking, "How long is a piece of string?"

 

What does that have to do with this thread or this particular portion of this subject?  -  Good question. But then, what does it have to do with donating?  (the theme of the talk)

 

Well, the answer is simple ...

 

it

 

is

 

an

 

illustration

 

I do not plan to say that we should be donating string or that donating has anything to do with string - the point is, the answer to the question, "how long is a piece of string" is "it is as long as it is from one end to the other" ... in other words, there is no preset determination for a segment of string to be called a "piece of string". The length of any given piece of string is up to the person who cuts the string - just like the amount we donate is up to the individual ... no tithing involved.  Again, it is an illustration - it is that simple.

 

The same holds true for the comment made about the protestors acting like apostates we see at Conventions. No one was saying they "were/are" apostates, just like I am not saying our donations are string, only that their behavior could remind us of the behavior of apostates.

 

Just as we have the right to attend the Convention without being disrupted by the antics of apostates, those who want the vaccine should not be disrupted by those who choose not to get the vaccine.

 

Maybe a different word could have been used in the comment that compared the protestors actions tp those of apostates - but, what word would have fit? What word would JW's understand that describes the actions of those who tried to disrupt the vaccine distribution as easily as we understand how apostates try to disrupt our Conventions.

 

It has noting to do with the technical definition of apostacy/apostates - it was just an illustration.

 

As a side thought - let me know if anyone else uses my illustration in the MWM meeting talk this week

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Qapla

[Omoyeme]

17 hours ago, friendlyone said:

[...]hard to understand why certain ethnic groups think the vaccination programmes are in place to do them some harm.

 

As stated in a previous post some pages back many others, like yourself, may never comprehend the seriousness of this matter for the simple fact that it is a question of trust - or distrust - in the medical establishment including those in authority (medical, commercial, political,  etc.) who've held and/or continue to hold long-held derogative views towards melanated people. 

 

And FWIW, not everyone belonging to a "certain ethnic group" will come to the same conclusion about these experimental vaccines, so it's not fair to paint all with the same brush.  May I reiterate what the brother said a few posts above that "there are a number of Christians who will not accept the covid19 vaccine for one reason or another, and that's fine."

 

Thus, at the end of the day, we can't question or worry, outside of our own families at least, who will or won't take the jab because overall it remains a personal  matter.

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Lance

[friendlyone]

6 hours ago, Omoyeme said:

 

As stated in a previous post some pages back many others, like yourself, may never comprehend the seriousness of this matter for the simple fact that it is a question of trust - or distrust - in the medical establishment including those in authority (medical, commercial, political,  etc.) who've held and/or continue to hold long-held derogative views towards melanated people. 

 

And FWIW, not everyone belonging to a "certain ethnic group" will come to the same conclusion about these experimental vaccines, so it's not fair to paint all with the same brush.  May I reiterate what the brother said a few posts above that "there are a number of Christians who will not accept the covid19 vaccine for one reason or another, and that's fine."

 

Thus, at the end of the day, we can't question or worry, outside of our own families at least, who will or won't take the jab because overall it remains a personal  matter.

 

 

I do understand that because of past events some in the ethnic minority communities might feel wary of accepting anything that hasn't been fully tried and tested.

 

My comment re that reluctance might have come across as a sweeping statement,  and I appreciate a lot of people in so-called minority groups have taken the vaccinations. But the fact remains community leaders, scientists, religious leaders, and doctors have been trying to get the message across that in their view the vaccines are safe, whatever the skin colour of the recipients. It isn't as though white people are being offered a different vaccine, everyone is in the same boat.

 

It isn't as though there's any scientific evidence to suggest the vaccine can cause harm to people who aren't white, as this article shows. I understand some distrust, but sometimes it can go too far if not based on evidence, whatever our skin colour.

 

https://theconversation.com/anti-vaxxers-are-weaponising-the-vaccine-hesitancy-of-black-communities-153836

Quote

 

Addressing vaccine hesitancy among Black communities is as complex as fighting the pandemic. That’s because just as the SARS-CoV-2 virus evolves, so does hesitancy.

In the first wave of the pandemic, when the virus was shown to be affecting certain ethnic groups disproportionately, one solution proposed by the medical profession was to start the vaccine roll out with the most vulnerable communities, including people from Black, Asian and minority ethnic groups.

 

 

 

[Omoyeme]

Brother, you're missing the point. This is not about so-called anti-vaxxers convincing the masses to forgo the experimental vaccinations.  The major concern for the African/African-Americans are the centuries-long sustained mistrust of the governmental and medical establishment who have abused their authority - through falsehood and deception - as it relates to people of colour.  (This has been a huge talking point for many people of color on social media where some are questioning physicians concerns of their health after years and years of apathy and mistreatment in the black community.)

 

There is an article from the very same website you linked that expounds on this issue entitled:  Black people have a long history of poor medical treatment – no wonder many are hesitant to take COVID vaccines.  Please read it when you have a moment. It cites several documented examples (J. Marion Sims, Tuskegee Experiment,  Henrietta Lacks) of past abuses from the medical establishment and gives a bit of insight on this issue.

 

Quote

I understand some distrust, but sometimes it can go too far if not based on evidence, [...]

 

There are voluminous amounts of documented evidence (books, articles, online lectures, etc.) that goes back years, even decades which very well lends credence to the medical mistreatment of people of colour.

 

The evidence is out there and it is not difficult to find.

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Omoyeme

[friendlyone]

1 hour ago, Omoyeme said:

Brother, you're missing the point. This is not about so-called anti-vaxxers convincing the masses to forgo the experimental vaccinations.  The major concern for the African/African-Americans are the centuries-long sustained mistrust of the governmental and medical establishment who have abused their authority - through falsehood and deception - as it relates to people of colour.  (This has been a huge talking point for many people of color on social media where some are questioning physicians concerns of their health after years and years of apathy and mistreatment in the black community.)

 

There is an article from the very same website you linked that expounds on this issue entitled:  Black people have a long history of poor medical treatment – no wonder many are hesitant to take COVID vaccines.  Please read it when you have a moment. It cites several documented examples (J. Marion Sims, Tuskegee Experiment,  Henrietta Lacks) of past abuses from the medical establishment and gives a bit of insight on this issue.

 

 

There are voluminous amounts of documented evidence (books, articles, online lectures, etc.) that goes back years, even decades which very well lends credence to the medical mistreatment of people of colour.

 

The evidence is out there and it is not difficult to find.

 

 

But I don't doubt the events of history, the evidence is there for all to see. What I'm trying to say is that we are in the here and now. Surely we should be looking at today's situation and how vaccinations can help stop the spread of this virus, whatever the colour of our skin.

 

Do people of ethnic minorities refuse the flu jab, or other diseases, based on what happened in the past? I genuinely don't know, but it seems to me that if they are willing to take other vaccines they could at least consider the merits of the covid jab, They aren't being experimented on because of their skin colour, no more than white people are. Some are being fed misinformation about some sort of tracking devices being contained in the vaccine itself so the government can track their whereabouts. And they actually believe it. Seriously?

 

Sorry, to equate what has gone on in the past with the present just doesn't make sense to me.

[bohemian]

My wife and I had our first vaccinations today.