The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[hatcheckgirl]

21 hours ago, comtemplate said:

No matter which variant keeps waving around the globe there aren’t any shutdowns.  

All of NSW, the state where Sydney is the capital, is in lockdown, as is Melbourne and Darwin. Lockdowns are regular occurrence here in Australia. Delta here has wrought enormous grief and cases continue to rise, but without lockdown it would be far worse. 

21 hours ago, comtemplate said:

Vaccines from infancy till the age of 5 are required by our government to enroll in schools (parents paid for them)

All vaccines for children are free in Australia, as is the flu shot for the elderly and vulnerable. Why is that? Government here feels the need to protect its population and thereby prevent an unnecessary burden on the health system. So it’s well spent prevention medicine. 
 

And all covid vaccines are free. If you go to a public hospital, services are free, paid for by our taxes. 
 

Just wanted to let you all know the American system of health care is not universal. Other models exist, so I can’t see any link to conspiracy as to why vaccines are free. 

[Bob]

On 8/15/2021 at 11:18 AM, Shawnster said:

Now, deniers like to claim that deaths from underlying conditions shouldn't count.  Honestly, though, this reasoning is flawed. A drunk driver, for example, crashes into another car and the other driver dies of a heart attack. Now, is the drunk driver not responsible for this other man's death because that man had a pre-existing heart condition? Does that make sense?  Is the drunk driver not responsible for the man's death because that man would have died of a heart attack anyway at some later time? Did the AIDS patient that died of the flu not count in Influenza deaths because he had AIDS?  Does that sound reasonable? 

I am not totally sure if deniers say underlying conditions shouldn’t count. 
 

What they’re saying is that they SHOULD count. For example, those who want universal masking for children in schools cite raw covid deaths without accounting for the children who had underlying conditions that succumbed to the illness. 
 

Those against universal masking for children say healthy children don’t need mask because the chances serious illness and death are minimal in children. 
 

I think the fact is that people who are pro restrictions don’t care about underlying conditions, generally speaking, and people who want less restrictions account for it to make the case that COVID isn’t as dangerous to healthy people as we are lead to believe. 
 

So it’s really not a scientific issue for either side. It’s about increasing or limiting the power of elected officials. 

 

Just one man’s opinion. I could be wrong. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Bob

[Bob]

5 minutes ago, Bob said:

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Bob

[Brother_Bliss]

9 minutes ago, Bob said:

Those against universal masking for children say healthy children don’t need mask because the chances serious illness and death are minimal in children. 
 

I think the fact is that people who are pro restrictions don’t care about underlying conditions, generally speaking, and people who want less restrictions account for it to make the case that COVID isn’t as dangerous to healthy people as we are lead to believe. 

And those who are Jehovah's people don't care. We're happy to do whatever Caesar says.

[Bob]

6 minutes ago, Dismal_Bliss said:

And those who are Jehovah's people don't care. We're happy to do whatever Caesar says.

Yes, of course. That was merely my subjective assessment of the issue. I wasn’t (or at least intending to) taking a side. 

[Dustparticle]

 

Nirex Posted yesterday at 12:10 PM

 

The problem with the statistics of it vs the flu, is as I said before, the way they're marking their numbers. I don't know if this is just U.S or other cuontries as well. But if you go into the hospital with say a heart attack, but you test positive for covid while you're there? It's marked as a Covid death, whether or not the Covid was actually the cause of the heart attack or not. 

 

I was told 3 days ago about the same thing. I do not know it is true or not that the state gets a $125 for each person who dies of covid.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Dustparticle

[lord-360]

58 minutes ago, Dustparticle said:

 

Nirex Posted yesterday at 12:10 PM

 

The problem with the statistics of it vs the flu, is as I said before, the way they're marking their numbers. I don't know if this is just U.S or other cuontries as well. But if you go into the hospital with say a heart attack, but you test positive for covid while you're there? It's marked as a Covid death, whether or not the Covid was actually the cause of the heart attack or not. 

 

I was told 3 days ago about the same thing. I do not know it is true or not that the state gets a $125 for each person who dies of covid.

A: Recent legislation pays hospitals higher Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients and treatment, but there is no evidence of fraudulent reporting. - https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

 

Nothing for deaths, but they do receive money to treat cases and offset cost.

 

https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-investigates/fact-check-how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-do-hospitals-get-money-for-covid-19-deaths

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, Bob said:

I am not totally sure if deniers say underlying conditions shouldn’t count. 

My point was people say that the Covid-19 deaths are being inflated by counting covid positive people who die of heart attacks, motorcycle accidents, and other causes.  This very page has at least two people who mentioned the inflated numbers as fact, so there is an example of what I was referring to. 

 

My sister contracted Covid and died.  Yes, she had underlying health issues.  However, she had lived for years and years with those underlying conditions.  Her health was stable and it wasn't like she was on death's door for years clinging to life.  She was as active as she could be and there was no thought that "she could die at any moment."  Her death was sudden and unexpected.  So, yeah, even though she had underlying health conditions and one of those conditions might have actually been the exact cause of her death, she would still be alive today if she hadn't caught Covid.  

Edited August 16, 2021 by Shawnster

[rocket]

To me it makes a lot of sense to list a heart attack as a covid death.

 

While the COVID-19 coronavirus attacks lung, not heart, tissue, the heart is affected because it may have to work harder to try to pump oxygenated blood through the body, and researchers are seeing heart damage in about one-fourth of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 infections. For someone already with heart disease or heart failure, this is a serious concern.

Edited August 16, 2021 by rocket

[MontRose]

Not to take sides, just sharing data:

 

Mortality rate, all causes, crude, per 1000 people

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.CDRT.IN?name_desc=false

 

Adults, per 1000

 

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.AMRT.MA?name_desc=false

 

And, selecting a few random years from the WHO

 

 

Does anyone else find it as conflicting information (the constant barrage of fear and death)? Comparing this to something like the Spanish flu, we see a gargantuan difference in numbers. My heart goes out to those who have been impacted by these events.

 

Anyway, I don't want to stir the pot too heavily... just providing this data.

 

At any rate, I don't obsess about it since Jehovah will put an end to it all soon. But remember Caesar has been wrong many times.. and our only friend is Jehovah, his kingdom, and all who are a part of it (in my opinion).

[Bob]

1 hour ago, Shawnster said:

My point was people say that the Covid-19 deaths are being inflated by counting covid positive people who die of heart attacks, motorcycle accidents, and other causes.  This very page has at least two people who mentioned the inflated numbers as fact, so there is an example of what I was referring to. 

 

My sister contracted Covid and died.  Yes, she had underlying health issues.  However, she had lived for years and years with those underlying conditions.  Her health was stable and it wasn't like she was on death's door for years clinging to life.  She was as active as she could be and there was no thought that "she could die at any moment."  Her death was sudden and unexpected.  So, yeah, even though she had underlying health conditions and one of those conditions might have actually been the exact cause of her death, she would still be alive today if she hadn't caught Covid.  

Sorry to hear that brother.
 

I believe COVID deaths are likely undercounted seeing the disease was here late 2019 before it was recognized by officials. We aren’t digging up bodies from late 2019 and doing autopsies, presumably. 
 

But a public health official in Illinois and here in Michigan did state as I recall, that a covid positive person who died as a direct result of a motorcycle accident would be counted as a Covid death. 
 

So personally I frankly don’t know for sure. I think there is play in the joints either way. 

[Michał]

Excess mortality rate for 3 countries:

 

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores?country=POL~USA~BRA

Edited August 16, 2021 by Michał
Missing image

[Michał]

As a comment to the picture above: in Poland our first wave (March-May 2020) wasn’t even a wave. We (people and government) we’re so scared that we had a totally strict lockdown (even forests were closed - I still can’t believe that). I left our apartment once every two weeks to do grocer6 shopping with masks and gloves, putting gels on every surface possible. Virtually everyone was doing that. effect: almost none Covid deaths (I wonder how many people committed suicide because of loss of job or because they were afraid to go to hospital). 
 

Then summer came and presidential elections. Restrictions were lifted. Nobody wanted to go into lockdown after summer so next two waves hit us badly: so many deaths that ICU units in bigger cities were full and people died waiting in ambulances (although not so much as in India or Brazil, I really sympathize with people there). You can see it on the chart. 
 

My point is COVID is real. Howver  human governments are trying to fight it, they lose life’s in the process.

 

I just can’t wait to see resurrected people just like in our original music video with Daniel. 

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, MontRose said:

Comparing this to something like the Spanish flu, we see a gargantuan difference in number

Granted.  Coronavirus is not as deadly.  Of course, wouldn't you agree that the 102 years of advances in medical procedures and sanitation has also helped in lowering that mortality rate? 

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, Bob said:

But a public health official in Illinois and here in Michigan did state as I recall, that a covid positive person who died as a direct result of a motorcycle accident would be counted as a Covid death. 

There must be a source somewhere that has this recorded. Two states... This ought to be easy to follow up on if you have a source. 

[lord-360]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

There must be a source somewhere that has this recorded. Two states... This ought to be easy to follow up on if you have a source. 

In a reply I made earlier that included sources for this. Googling " covid motorcycle death " brought the information up for me. It did happen, but it was quickly investigated and correctly fixed. That last part always seems to be missing from the story.

[Shawnster]

2 minutes ago, lord-360 said:

In a reply I made earlier that included sources for this. Googling " covid motorcycle death " brought the information up for me. It did happen, but it was quickly investigated and correctly fixed. That last part always seems to be missing from the story.

This is in contradiction to what @Bobwas implying in his comment. Thanks for the clarification. 

[Bob]

4 hours ago, Shawnster said:

This is in contradiction to what @Bobwas implying in his comment. Thanks for the clarification. 

The part of the press conference in this link specifically shows an Illinois health official stating that any person who dies of an alternate cause yet has COVID is still classified as a covid death:

 

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.”

 

https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/

 

I cannot find the motorcycle comments by our local health official, but this should suffice. It was over a year ago so I had a hard time remembering if this was the Illinois official who made the motorcycle comments or mines. 
 

Now, this is not to say the current death toll is deliberately and falsely inflated. The likelihood is that cases and deaths are still undercounted seeing how long the disease has been with us before discovery. 
 

But this is merely to validate my claim.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Bob

[Lee49]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58241619

New Zealand enters nationwide lockdown over one Covid case

 

 

The case was detected in Auckland, which will be in lockdown for a week, while the rest of the country will be in lockdown for three days.

Authorities say they are working on the assumption that the new case was the Delta variant.

Just around 20% of its population has been fully vaccinated.

Coromandel, a coastal town where the infected person had visited, will be in lockdown for seven days too.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the toughest "level 4" rules were required - closing schools, offices and all businesses with only essential services remaining operational.

Talk about acting fast!

[GeordieGirl]

11 hours ago, Lee49 said:

Talk about acting fast!

This is what happens here in WA too, which is why we are living a normal life here, unlike most of the rest of the country. 🙂

[countrykaren]

1 minute ago, GeordieGirl said:

This is what happens here in WA too, which is why we are living a normal life here, unlike most of the rest of the country. 🙂

I’m in Manjimup 

[Ludwika]

11 hours ago, Lee49 said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58241619

New Zealand enters nationwide lockdown over one Covid case

 

 

The case was detected in Auckland, which will be in lockdown for a week, while the rest of the country will be in lockdown for three days.

Authorities say they are working on the assumption that the new case was the Delta variant.

Just around 20% of its population has been fully vaccinated.

Coromandel, a coastal town where the infected person had visited, will be in lockdown for seven days too.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the toughest "level 4" rules were required - closing schools, offices and all businesses with only essential services remaining operational.

Talk about acting fast!

Yes, we went into level 4 lockdown at midnight last night as soon as the first case was detected. 5 cases as of this morning.

[hatcheckgirl]

Short, sharp lockdowns have kept the WA economy bubbling along while the rest of the eastern states languish under longer, hotspot lockdowns. The states of Western Australia and Tasmania, and also South Australia as well as New Zealand still have zero covid, unless it breaches through quarantine or human error. So far the quick lockdowns have worked. 
 

But the strategy of elimination in the community has failed in Sydney, and so we all need to have higher vaccination rates in order to open up our borders. At the moment, two states and two territories, which includes Canberra the capital, have cases which are growing exponentially and are in lockdown. Borders within our country are closed. And yet cases still grow and spread because delta’s happy to exploit human stupidity and shortsightedness. And that’s unfortunately how the Sydney outbreak got out of hand, due to complacency and underestimating the delta strain.

[Shawnster]

Wonder what the attitude and opinions of US citizens would be if we had experienced short, sharp lockdowns. 

[pnutts]

Just today, the province of Ontario announced ( finally ) stricter measures for health care workers and those in education. Not quite a full vaccine mandate, but if you don't have a "documented " medical reason for refusing, there will be consequences.

In either case you could be required to take rapid testing 1 to 3 times a week, Before going to work.

Many health care and teacher unions have said it doesn't go far enough.