The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[Sequoia]

As far as some being required by the authorities to be vaccinated.  Vaccination is a personal decision unless the law requires it.  The governing body has said we follow the law when it comes to this pandemic and do what the authorities tell us to do.  We follow the law unless it violates God's law which vaccines don't violate God's law.

[Shawnster]

We also, as Christians, obey the traffic laws, yet we don't pillory those Christians who might regularly drive over the speed limit or don't wear seat belts.

 

Let's not blow "obeying  the law" out of proportion, either.  Yes, it could become the law that we need to be vaccinated.  How the congregation views this law and the violation thereof might be different than how the congregation views laws like murder.

 

Before we start making our fellow Christians feel guilty because they aren't vaccinated, let's wait and see how the Faithful Slave leads us in such a situation.

[Sofia]

Pandemic evolution:

[Sequoia]

31 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

We also, as Christians, obey the traffic laws, yet we don't pillory those Christians who might regularly drive over the speed limit or don't wear seat belts.

 

Let's not blow "obeying  the law" out of proportion, either.  Yes, it could become the law that we need to be vaccinated.  How the congregation views this law and the violation thereof might be different than how the congregation views laws like murder.

 

Before we start making our fellow Christians feel guilty because they aren't vaccinated, let's wait and see how the Faithful Slave leads us in such a situation.

Where did I compare it to murder?  I merely stated we should follow the law. I'm not making anyone feel guilty.  You overreacted.

[Shawnster]

17 minutes ago, JW2017 said:

Where did I compare it to murder?  I merely stated we should follow the law. I'm not making anyone feel guilty.  You overreacted.

I didn't say you did.  Nowhere did I imply that or mean to do so.  I'm sorry if you feel I overreacted, but you clearly misunderstood my comment.  In fact, I didn't even quote you.  I merely had the random chance of being the next person to post after you did.

 

So, let me be blunt so as to not allow room for any confusion.  I expect or assume (but you know what happens when you assume) that any law that mandates vaccinations will be viewed by the congregation the same as laws concerning immigration status or traffic violations.  In other words, a Christian who chooses to not be vaccinated and violates such a law will not face judicial reproof, just as a Christian that breaks the speed limit or doesn't stop at a stop sign doesn't automatically get reproved either.  

 

My comparison to murder was to point out that even the congregation (and the legal system) does not view all laws the same when it comes to violation and punishment.  Some laws that are broken require the payment of a fine.  Other laws, lie murder, are more severe.  I do not believe for a moment that the government or the congregation will view violation of a mandatory vaccination law to be equal to murder.

 

But, as I said, this is my own opinion and I could be wrong.  I do not speak for the congregation or the FDS or the Organization.  These thoughts are just my own.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Shawnster

[hatcheckgirl]

1 hour ago, Nancy M said:

Saying someone is selfish for not taking the Covid shot is part of the worldly narrative.

Even if we take “selfishness” out of this, look at this from the perspective of the public being served by nurses and police. It’s not possible to have confidence in that service or feel protected if you don’t know that your midwife or policeman is vaccinated or not.

 

One state governments in Australia has already mandated its police all be vaccinated for this reason - to assure the public. Other state governments are mandating all health workers must be vaccinated. Going into hospital is not a choice if you need an operation. But choosing your employment is a personal choice.

 

Why are the governments wanting their frontline staff to be vaccinated? It’s mitigating the worst of the effects of the disease, which then reduces the number of people who can spread the virus because they have lower viral loads. In other words, it helps to protect these frontline workers, and that helps in slowing the spread to the rest of the community.

 

The personal choice is still there, but that can’t override community health protections. For a Christian, that means that if we personally choose to not have the vax, then we choose to work elsewhere because of the rights of others to feel safe, and the right of superior governments imposing these health mandates (as they aren’t breaching God’s requirements). Personal choice comes with consequences.

[Sequoia]

37 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

I didn't say you did.  Nowhere did I imply that or mean to do so.  I'm sorry if you feel I overreacted, but you clearly misunderstood my comment.  In fact, I didn't even quote you.  I merely had the random chance of being the next person to post after you did.

 

So, let me be blunt so as to not allow room for any confusion.  I expect or assume (but you know what happens when you assume) that any law that mandates vaccinations will be viewed by the congregation the same as laws concerning immigration status or traffic violations.  In other words, a Christian who chooses to not be vaccinated and violates such a law will not face judicial reproof, just as a Christian that breaks the speed limit or doesn't stop at a stop sign doesn't automatically get reproved either.  

 

My comparison to murder was to point out that even the congregation (and the legal system) does not view all laws the same when it comes to violation and punishment.  Some laws that are broken require the payment of a fine.  Other laws, lie murder, are more severe.  I do not believe for a moment that the government or the congregation will view violation of a mandatory vaccination law to be equal to murder.

 

But, as I said, this is my own opinion and I could be wrong.  I do not speak for the congregation or the FDS or the Organization.  These thoughts are just my own.

I'm sorry.

[Shawnster]

28 minutes ago, hatcheckgirl said:

One state governments in Australia has already mandated its police all be vaccinated for this reason - to assure the public. Other state governments are mandating all health workers must be vaccinated. Going into hospital is not a choice if you need an operation. But choosing your employment is a personal choice.

Fair is fair and the government does have a right to mandate certain health requirements for their employees.  As you said, vaccinations are personal choice.  Along with that choice comes the responsibility for one's actions and decisions.  

 

We aren't here to make anyone feel bad for choosing not to be vaccinated.  That is their choice and we can support their right to self-determination.  We also need to be willing to accept the consequences of our decisions.  Those consequences may be burdensome, but there is always a way out from under those burdens.  (Psalm 37:25) 25 I was once young and now I am old, But I have not seen anyone righteous abandoned, Nor his children looking for bread.  

[Sequoia]

What Happens if You Use a Fake Vaccine Card? (msn.com)  It might result in prison.

[Brother_Bliss]

7 hours ago, Nancy M said:

Sad they had to quit and likely did not want to quit, but not selfish...the GB would never say anyone is selfish because they do not want the Covid shot.  They consistently tell us it's a personal choice.  Saying someone is selfish for not taking the Covid shot is part of the worldly narrative.

It's part of the "narrative" because in the world the anti-vax movement is a political issue and the ones protesting the vaccine are usually screaming 'my freedom, my body, my choice, cuz 'Merica!" which does indeed sound crazy selfish.

 

Of course, Jehovah's people are not part of any anti-vax movement, and would never protest or speak out against the vaccine in an effort to influence their choice.

[Miss Bea]

On 9/10/2021 at 5:04 AM, runner92 said:

 

 

I work for a company that employs more than 100 people, so I feel that eventually they're going to force us regardless. 

There should be waivers for those who work at home!

[Shawnster]

6 hours ago, Miss Bea said:

There should be waivers for those who work at home!

Who says there isn't or won't be? The problem and I am not directing this statement at you @Miss Bea, is that people on social media are reacting to these announcements and news reports without knowing all the facts. Heck, the news articles don't contain the exact wording of the directives and I don't believe the exact wording has been released yet. We should wait until we know what the direction is before complaining

 

(Proverbs 18:13) 13 When anyone replies to a matter before he hears the facts,

It is foolish and humiliating.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwtsty&srctype=wol&bible=20018013&srcid=share

[Dustparticle]

Putin has it https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-isolate-due-coronavirus-circle-80006037

[daydream]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-isolate-due-coronavirus-circle-80006037   14 September 2021

 

Russia's daily new coronavirus infections in recent weeks have plateaued around 17,000-18,000, with the daily death toll remaining just under 800, the highest level in the pandemic. Nevertheless, hardly any virus restrictions are currently in place in Russia.

 

Russia's state coronavirus task force has reported a total of 7.1 million confirmed coronavirus cases and 194,249 deaths. However, reports by the government's statistical service Rosstat that tally coronavirus-linked deaths retroactively reveal much higher numbers.

[Shawnster]

59 minutes ago, Dustparticle said:

Putin has it https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/putin-isolate-due-coronavirus-circle-80006037

That's not exactly what the article says.  

 

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters that Putin is “absolutely healthy,” but will self-isolate after coming in contact with someone who contracted the virus. He didn’t clarify for how long Putin would remain in self-isolation, but assured that the president will continue working as usual.

 

Asked if Putin tested negative for the virus, Peskov said “definitely, yes.”

 

Peskov didn’t say who among Putin’s contacts were infected, saying only that there were several cases.

37 minutes ago, happiness IS said:

Russia's daily new coronavirus infections in recent weeks have plateaued around 17,000-18,000, with the daily death toll remaining just under 800, the highest level in the pandemic. Nevertheless, hardly any virus restrictions are currently in place in Russia.

 

I believe there are governments that are not accurately reporting their cases.  Russia and China being 2 of those governments.

[lovjahupepl]

1 hour ago, Shawnster said:

Who says there isn't or won't be? The problem and I am not directing this statement at you @Miss Bea, is that people on social media are reacting to these announcements and news reports without knowing all the facts. Heck, the news articles don't contain the exact wording of the directives and I don't believe the exact wording has been released yet. We should wait until we know what the direction is before complaining

 

(Proverbs 18:13) 13 When anyone replies to a matter before he hears the facts,

It is foolish and humiliating.

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&pub=nwtsty&srctype=wol&bible=20018013&srcid=share

May relative job's told their people (the majority that work from home) they must be vaccinated "no waivers" and no testing.  Sure they can "attempt" a medical or religious exemption but the process/paperwork is very extensive and not guaranteed.  They have until the 15th of this month to turn in any exemption requests.  If they don't get vaccinated they will be terminated in November.  The exemption process has to go through an outside company, reviewed, etc. The wording in the paperwork isn't even designed to make it easy.  It's not as simple as going to your doctor and he stating "what your illness is" and why you shouldn't take it.

[Tbs77]

Oops…. from NY Times:

Email your thoughts to briefing@nytimes.com. Did a friend forward you the briefing? Sign up here.

Correction: In last Friday’s newsletter we wrote that unvaccinated Americans are 11 times more likely than unvaccinated Americans to die of Covid. The comparison should have been between unvaccinated and vaccinated Americans.

[M.J.]

1 hour ago, lovjahupepl said:

Sure they can "attempt" a medical or religious exemption but the process/paperwork is very extensive and not guaranteed.  They have until the 15th of this month to turn in any exemption requests.

They just use this wording to discourage people from doing it. No company wants to be sued for forcing someone to get a vaccine after their doctor specifically said it was dangerous for medical reasons and gave them a medical exemption. However, the medical exemption has to be legitimate. Is the person actually allergic to any of the components? Do they have a history of problems with allergic reactions? It sounds to me like a lot of people just want to get a medical exemption even thought they don't really qualify and don't need an exemption. The doctors are not going to hand them out like candy. It will be a rare exception for the person who is exempt. 

[lovjahupepl]

14 minutes ago, M.J. said:

They just use this wording to discourage people from doing it. No company wants to be sued for forcing someone to get a vaccine after their doctor specifically said it was dangerous for medical reasons and gave them a medical exemption. However, the medical exemption has to be legitimate. Is the person actually allergic to any of the components? Do they have a history of problems with allergic reactions? It sounds to me like a lot of people just want to get a medical exemption even thought they don't really qualify and don't need an exemption. The doctors are not going to hand them out like candy. It will be a rare exception for the person who is exempt. 

Why is it necessary to peer pressure people with wording or discourage them from seeking an exemption?  It's obvious that if they don't qualify it would be found out when paperwork is reviewed. 

[Dustparticle]

2 hours ago, Shawnster said:

That's not exactly what the article says.  

 

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters that Putin is “absolutely healthy,” but will self-isolate after coming in contact with someone who contracted the virus. He didn’t clarify for how long Putin would remain in self-isolation, but assured that the president will continue working as usual.

 

Asked if Putin tested negative for the virus, Peskov said “definitely, yes.”

 

Peskov didn’t say who among Putin’s contacts were infected, saying only that there were several cases.

I believe there are governments that are not accurately reporting their cases.  Russia and China being 2 of those governments.

Sorry, my mistake. Yet, we never know.

[Saffron]

As far as docs handing out medical exemption forms, they can skip convincing them. There are pastors handing them out for a suggested donation of $25. 🙄

 

It's clear that people can make their own decisions, but I'm going to have to fight within myself and pray to be at peace with this matter. 

 

When I read about innocent children dying in very unvaccinated states or about someone's grandmother dying of a heart attack because the hospitals are too full of unvaccinated covid patients to provide appropriate care, it his the mother and caretaker in me hard. 

 

Then there's the medical professional in me who wonders why some people disregard the opinions of the medical community, yet run straight to them for help when they end up with covid. If medical professionals can't be trusted to prevent or minimize the effects of this virus, why trust them to treat it?  

 

Then there's the Christian in me who knows she needs to let it go. People can think whatever they want and do whatever it is that suits them. 

 

I know there will be plenty of people here who don't like what I have to say. It's okay. My current thoughts are what they are for now. I'm a work in progress. We will see where they go from here with prayer and a news detox. 

[M.J.]

2 hours ago, lovjahupepl said:

Why is it necessary to peer pressure people with wording or discourage them from seeking an exemption?  It's obvious that if they don't qualify it would be found out when paperwork is reviewed. 

This is Satan's world.

 

Also, as others have mentioned, some people abuse the system.

 

It's not obvious.

 

All this is new, and many regulations haven't been clearly established yet, so it's really crazy and confusing for everyone right now. It will take time to sort things out.

Edited September 14, 2021 by M.J.

[DarinS]

20 hours ago, Shawnster said:

We also, as Christians, obey the traffic laws, yet we don't pillory those Christians who might regularly drive over the speed limit or don't wear seat belts.

 

Let's not blow "obeying  the law" out of proportion, either.  Yes, it could become the law that we need to be vaccinated.  How the congregation views this law and the violation thereof might be different than how the congregation views laws like murder.

 

Before we start making our fellow Christians feel guilty because they aren't vaccinated, let's wait and see how the Faithful Slave leads us in such a situation.

thats some good points shawn -- thanx for the reminders to be kind to others

 

and not to be self-righteous against others

some who dont understand

some who dont agree

some who just dont......

 

 

in the US we have had mandatory vaccinations for over 50 years

I think almost every child in the US has had to be vaccinated in order to attend public school

(measles, mumps, polio, rubella)

(and yes I know some folks were against these vaccinations claiming it caused Autism - until that was completely debunked as fake news)

(and YES I know these Covid vaccines have side effects and there are some legitimate worries about it)

but its nothing new - requiring vaccines for students of jobs.......

 

of course it is being used by Satan to sow discord and confusion and contempt

 

glad my father is in charge of this mess in the long run

 

1 - how this will impact our association - or lack of association with the unvaccinated

---(see other posts where branch direction to FTS where to avoid unvaccinated)

 

2-was wondering recently - how this might effect the 'call of Peace and Security' ????

---will people feel safe with this hanging over their heads

[DarinS]

4 hours ago, lovjahupepl said:

May relative job's told their people (the majority that work from home) they must be vaccinated "no waivers" and no testing.  Sure they can "attempt" a medical or religious exemption but the process/paperwork is very extensive and not guaranteed.  They have until the 15th of this month to turn in any exemption requests.  If they don't get vaccinated they will be terminated in November.  The exemption process has to go through an outside company, reviewed, etc. The wording in the paperwork isn't even designed to make it easy.  It's not as simple as going to your doctor and he stating "what your illness is" and why you shouldn't take it.

just out of curiosity

 

I understand health - auto immune , etc

 

 

what would a religious objection be???

it does not have blood  - 

other than those who reject any and all health treatments

is there any ' legitimate sounding' religious reasons that you have heard?

 

 

[careful]

early on there were some who thought the vaccine contained parts of aborted fetuses that would possibly raise a blood issue in their opinion.this was not true.