Torture of JWs in Russia

[dove]

1 hour ago, Old said:

"... withstood only two hours of torture..."

I think we should limit our commenting on this avenue to those that have withstood two hours of torture, ... anyone?

 

Childbirth?....

[dove]

1 hour ago, tuntun said:

two hours of torture is not a 'only'

I had that same thought..2 hours of that kind of pain can seem like an eternity at times..

[Thesauron]

Yes. Russians are tough compared to Westerners, but Central Asians and those in the Caucuses are even tougher than the Russians. We still have a lot of men in the traditional sense of the word. That is not to say that the West does not have them. It does, but feminism and effeminisation are having a negative impact on many. No offence. 
 
I personally would not be afraid of institutionalised torture by police or KGB, because they use only light forms that do not kill. I have not heard of a single fatality from police torture yet in our region. If I was tortured in prison, that would be different ball game. I could easily be killed without any serious consequences.  
 
 

Death isn’t the worst. Death is a release. No, worse yet is torture that lingers and that makes you suffer for years to come, in some instances. A brother our congregation still suffers 20 years on from the torture he had to endure as a young witness in another European country. The brothers are courageous, but it is fully understandable if they are scared of being tortured. When they are scared, they can gain more courage by trusting in Jehovah and by seeing the reality of our hope clearly.

[Tortuga]

It's good to review Chapter 17 in the OD book. 

[dove]

53 minutes ago, Dove said:

Childbirth?....

Not meaning to trivialize what the brothers are going through; just helps one to understand the level of suffering..

[Bek]

I have finished the book of Mark today. In its last two chapters, 15-16, Mark says that Jesus was nailed to the stake at the third hour (9 a.m.) and expired at the 9th hour (3 p.m.). That means he was on the stake for six hours before he died. Plus, he had been whipped and beaten for some time before the impalement.

 

Did Jesus run away or beg the soldiers to stop the torture and the murder of him? No, he bravely endured and even refused to take the bitter wine to avoid dulling his senses to the pain.  

 

It is said that the whipping itself was sometimes enough to kill some, because of the straps that had jagged bone or metal tips on them. Jesus must have been scourged with that kind of whipped. 

 

When I tried to picture it all, it was extremely painful just to imagine it. In reality, it must have been far worse. But he still remained faithful despite the unimaginable physical suffering.    

 

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Bek

[EccentricM]

All inspired by Satan too. What a sick individual. Even if he "could" offer everlasting life with "freedom from rules", would you really want it, knowing someone like that was your god?

[retroHelen]

Sad fact is that Amnesty International, a UK charity that watches human rights abuses, has reported Russia's torture of prisoners for years since Putin came to power.

 

This incident with the brothers is just the pinnacle of a long series of such nasty activities in Russia:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/oct/15/russia.chechnya 2000

 

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/torture-in-eastern-ukraine-and-what-comes-after-it 2015

 

https://www.raamoprusland.nl/dossiers/rechtsstaat/398-torture-is-common-practice-in-russia-s-gulag 2016

 

The latest one that actually led to investigation and prosecution of prison guards was a nasty incident very similar to what happened to our brothers, but to a prisoner (not a brother) in Yaroslavl in 2017. The United Nations sent in the evidence and complaints as video evidence had got out to the media of the man being stripped beaten and waterboarded repeatedly.

[shali]

Many times, they deprive you of basic necessities for long periods of time to confuse you and weaken your resolve before the real pain begins (sleep, food, water).  You go without sleep for 24 hours or more and you probably have trouble spelling your own name.  

[Igorianov]

https://tass.ru/ural-news/6242064

European court of human right has denied allegation of torture !!!!

[ChocoBro]

16 minutes ago, Igorianov said:

https://tass.ru/ural-news/6242064

European court of human right has denied allegation of torture !!!!

 

Or so says TASS, the "Telegraph Agency of the Soviet Union". There is something that seems contradictory about this. The article says

 

Quote

The European Court of Human Rights notified the Ministry of Justice of Russia about the refusal to satisfy Sergei Loginov’s request to take urgent interim measures in the case,

[...]
It is noted that the Ministry of Justice and the Federal Penitentiary Service conducted a medical examination of the applicant with the participation of independent experts, which did not confirm the fact of torture. The ministry explained that after reviewing the evidence provided and the legal reasoning, the ECHR found no valid reasons for satisfying Loginov's petition.

 

But if you look at the official documents and the JW-Russia site, it says

 

Quote

According to the order handed down by the court in Strasbourg, the Government of Russia has until March 20, 2019, to comply. The order states that Mr Loginov be immediately examined by medical doctors independent from both the Russian Investigative Committee and the penitentiary system.

 

Seems to me that there is more to the story here. Russia knows how to make a mockery of the human rights system and evade any responsibility for any of their actions. They probably found a nice legal loophole out of this issue. The ECHR can only do so much.

 

I saw the photos of our brothers. They probably fell down the stairs though, you know how it is.

 

[retroHelen]

This is reminiscent of the spies that came to  the UK, sitting with Putin on Soviet TV and in their media, claiming that they were in the city of Salisbury as tourists to look at the cathedral despite the fact they were followed by local CCTV security cameras in the city going in the opposite direction towards the home of Mr Scripal (the spy who was poisoned with Russian Novichok that also damaged a few other people as well).

 

UK Newspapers had uncovered the fact they were Russian army people acting undercover and Mr Scripal was on their hit list for providing information about the Soviets to the West.It was so obvious who the Russian men were it seemed either amateur or blatant how they did it and the UK newspapers even took their photographs to where one of the men was born in Russia and his old relatives identified him as well.

 

But these false reports were not for the benefit of the West, they were fake news to placate  the ordinary people of their own country who they hope don't have access to any other opinion.

 

As I posted with news item links previously, these 'torture' tactics have been in use in Russian Police stations and prisons for many years now and are a regular matter for human rights courts outside Russia to complain about. They seem to be ignored in Russia as unwanted interfering, unless the cry is so loud they have to make a show of arresting some police/soldiers (like in Yaroslavl 2017) and making out that those Police/soldier actions were 'rogue' and not 'policy' to placate people again.

 

So sad when the Witnesses were good quiet obedient tax paying citizens in a country so rich in art and culture and now it is becoming more isolated and inward it  will lose tourist income because of actions reminiscent of their dark past being uncovered and not dealt with properly. 

[Bek]

The Russian Investigative Committee, known in Russian as the SC, denies using electric shockers against JWs in Surgut. It also slanders brothers saying that the electric shock marks on their bodies were done by JWs themselves later to "discredit law-enforcement bodies". 

 

SC denies torture by electric shock of Jehovah's Witnesses in Surgut 

 

https://bit.ly/2uvL2ri

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Bek

[EccentricM]

Pfff. As if. We know well brothers would never resort to such things. We have no interest in political affairs, so why would we want to slander anyone? And self electrocution? Really?

[shali]

It shouldn't surprise us really - all governments have a policy of coverup and denial. If you can't cover it up then deny it ever happened.

[Bek]

Of course, brothers would not do such a thing. It is clear as day that the Kremlin has just decided to resort to its old propaganda tactics.

 

What concerns me though is that when the Kremlin is called out publicly on something it wants to keep under wraps, they usually retaliate in some way. If the Kremlin's past behaviour is something to go by, I can say that they will likely either make the life of the tortured brothers very difficult or further tighten the screws on all our fellow believers in Russia. 

 

   

[campanula]

 

Announcement of the press conference “The Torture of Jehovah's Witnesses in Surgut. New facts of persecution. The conclusion of experts "

It's going to be on YouTube.

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jw-russia.org%2Fnews%2F19032619-691.html

[stargazer]

13 hours ago, shali said:

It shouldn't surprise us really - all governments have a policy of coverup and denial. If you can't cover it up then deny it ever happened.

Simple. Buy the rumour, sell the fact...

[ChocoBro]

4 hours ago, campanula said:

The event will be held at the Press Center of the Rosbalt Information Agency at the address: 4/2 Skatertny Lane, Moscow, p. 1. The Press Center organizes a live video broadcast of the conference . Beginning March 28, 2019 at 12:00.

Which will be in Russian. Wonder if there will be a possibility to get a translation.

[campanula]

3 hours ago, ChocoBro said:

Which will be in Russian. Wonder if there will be a possibility to get a translation.

Its finished already... Yes, it is in russian. Many good and right words...... 

 

 

[dove]

On 3/14/2019 at 2:21 PM, Dove said:

Childbirth?....

I find it a little wondersome that the only reaction to this is 3 brothers who have never experienced it..😶

[JennyM]

3 hours ago, campanula said:

Its finished already... Yes, it is in russian. Many good and right words...... 

 

 

What did they say?

[campanula]

33 minutes ago, JennyM said:

What did they say?

This is an article about this event.

https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&tab=wT&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fm.rosbalt.ru%2Fmoscow%2F2019%2F03%2F28%2F1772343.html

In Russian it is here

http://m.rosbalt.ru/moscow/2019/03/28/1772343.html

Edited March 28, 2019 by campanula
Fixing links

[Bek]

8 hours ago, ChocoBro said:

Which will be in Russian. Wonder if there will be a possibility to get a translation.

 

1 hour ago, JennyM said:

What did they say?

 

I have watched the hour-long conference on the persecution of JWs and, in particular, the torture of brothers in Surgut. Here is a condensed write-up of the key points.

 

To Mods, I have tried to make it as short as possible, but it still runs to two pages. Since there are no copyright issues, I hope you will not remove my report which has taken me about two hours to put together.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

1) A prominent rights activist, Lev Ponamaryov, says that a forensic research institute in Chelyabinsk has examined the tortured brothers and produced a report, confirming that they were indeed tortured by beatings and electrocution.

 

He says that although torture by police and other security bodies is "constantly" used at detention facilities in Russia, he was still surprised at the audacity and scale of the torture that was done so "publicly" against a large group of people who were not officially in custody, but were only taken in for questioning.

 

He casts doubt over the Investigative Committee’s recent report that denied the use of torture against JWs. He says that human rights activists expected that answer because the allegations were investigated by those who were themselves involved in the torture.

 

Ponamaryov also finds the investigators' claims that JWs "tortured themselves" when they got home after the questioning ridiculous.

 

He concludes that the head of the Investigative Committee, Bastrykin, should put his agency in order or resign for failing to control his own subordinates.

 

2) A spokesman of our organisation in Russia, Yaroslav Sivulski, starts from saying that right after the verdict against Denis Christensen, there were predictions that the persecution of JWs would only intensify, which sadly all have come true. Then he goes on listing the numerous criminal cases, detentions, house searches and so on that have taken place in 36 regions of Russia so far.

 

Here are the stats:

 

There have been over 400 searches and 70 criminal cases. 169 JWs are already regarded as accused or suspects, 35 of whom are women.

 

Over the last two years, 82 JWs have been in custody. Of these, 27 are still in custody. 28 JWs are under house arrest and 60 are banned from leaving the country.

 

He says that it appears as if after Putin's statement that he cannot understand why Christians like JWs are being persecuted, law-enforcement bodies have stepped up their efforts to prove that JWs are truly "extremists".

 

He also says that Russian media reports about the ECHR’s decision to drop Brother Loginov's case because there was no evidence to prove that he was tortured are false. In reality, the ECHR dismissed only "preliminary injunctions" that were imposed in view of a threat to the defendant's life, but it does not mean that it has recognised that there was no evidence of torture. The case still stands and will be considered when all investigations into torture allegations are completed.

 

Sivulski says that few people find the Russian Investigative Committee's statement that "an active resistance" that was allegedly put up by JWs during detention led to violence against our brothers as convincing.

 

Right after the torture allegations were made, the Investigative Committee denied them vehemently and then it said that defence lawyers had told JWs to beat each other up to put pressure on law-enforcement bodies. However, now it admits that investigators did use "violence" only because there was "active resistance".

 

He says that as believers JWs abide by God's laws and cannot give false testimonies because it is a great sin to do so. He adds that JWs never resisted arrest or detention in Russia because they follow the Biblical commandment "do not return evil for evil".

 

In conclusion, he says that those who thought that after the ban, JWs would renounce their faith and scatter have not studied the history of the Soviet Union, the Nazi Germany and first-century Christians. “Jesus himself was tortured, but this did not frighten his followers at all. JWs are true Christians who remember Jesus's words that they will be handed over to courts for a witness to them and other nations. That is exactly what is happening now in Russia”, he added. He also says that JWs still hope that Putin's instruction to the top court look into why JWs are being persecuted will lead to a positive result.

 

3) A defence lawyer, Yegiazar Chernikov, mentions the numerous violations of the brothers' rights during questioning. He names the investigators and describes the role of "executioners" who tortured the brothers. He also describes in great detail the horrible torture tactics that are too graphic to write about here. He says that JWs were forced to sign "confessions" that were written by investigators.

 

He cites various medical examination reports to refute the Investigative Committee's report mentioned above.

 

4) The director of a law and religion research institute in Russia, Anatoly Pchelintsev, talks about the history of persecution against JWs in Nazi Germany and about his visit to a concentration camp museum in Germany. He says that JWs are pacifists and would never resort to violence. He says that they do not even buy toy weapons for their kids and do not watch violent films. He then expresses his anger at the state of law enforcement in the country. He warns that the injustices against JWs will sooner or later have to be undone if Russia wants to be part of the civilised world.

 

5) Svetlana Gannushkina, a prominent human rights activist and a member of the Memorial human rights and charitable community and of the Russian presidential council on civil society and human rights, says that "Memorial" considers the persecution of JWs to be politically motivated and has already recognised a few dozen JWs as "political prisoners".

 

She criticises the current "disgraceful" situation and calls for an end to it.

6) A defence lawyer, Viktor Zhenkov, describes his conversations with investigators in charge of proceedings against JWs. He says that when asked why they are persecuting innocent people, they openly admitted that JWs are good people, but persecution against them is "the political will" of the state.

 

He says that the court has outlawed only the legal entity of JWs, but not their religion. Under the constitution, they still have the right to practise their religion. However, the law-enforcement bodies are disregarding this difference. 

 

He says that during a trial, he questioned FSB officers and when asked if the law prohibited JWs to read the Bible, gather for worship and preach, they said no, but they still persecute peaceful people. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Bek

[SUNRAY]

48 minutes ago, Bek said:

Here is a condensed write-up of the key points.

Wow! Thank you our dear brother for spending the time and effort to translate and relate this information to us! Very much appreciated! 💖