Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[Tortuga]

https://apnews.com/article/uk-authorizes-vaccine-emergency-use-ea0170c978eb281a905866e5bd78bbdf

 

The UK may start vaccinations within days.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Tortuga

[Lee49]

Are Covid-19 vaccines safe? CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta has answers.

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/12/02/sanjay-gupta-covid-19-vaccine-safety-orig-dp.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/

[rocket]

One thing that one needs to consider in posting more than your opinion is the blood guilt one could acquire if one person dies because of convincing that person to or not to take a vaccine.  Jehovah is the one that decides if you have blood guilt.

 

Take as an example something that happened in my little town.  Recently a person who was infected with the virus (believing that it is all fake news) went to the grocery store and infected 47 other people.  Now if even one person dies from that super spreader incident, does that person have blood guilt? Everyone must do their own research and decide for themselves with love of neighbor in mind as Jesus second command.

 

We have a Thread on the Forum about Blood Fractions.  Some of the friends would take Blood Fractions based on their own research and some of the friends would not based on their own research.  Is it right to try to convince one not to take blood fractions because your conscience and research says it is wrong or the reverse. Each person must do their own research and come to their own decision. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by rocket

[Allabord4Jah]

This article was on my tablet under Google news.  I'll try to get the rest of it.  US NEWS TODAY, carried the article. But this paragraph caught my attention in the article:

Once you get vaccinated, can you still get sick? Can you still transmit the virus to other people?

Yes, it is possible that you could still get sick or transmit the virus to someone else, even after having received the vaccine, according to experts. "The vaccines are 90% effective. That means that there’s a small chance you could encounter the virus and still get sick," Schaffner said.

For example, data from Moderna showed that of 196 people in the clinical trial who caught COVID-19, 11 had received the vaccine. But none of those 11 participants had severe disease, suggesting that the vaccine prevented severe disease.

It's also possible to get sick if you don't give the vaccine enough time to provide protection. It typically takes "a few weeks" for the body to build immunity after vaccination, according to the CDC. So it's possible that someone could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 just before or just after vaccination and get sick.

 

********************************************************** 

This bothers me about the vaccines.  

Edited December 3, 2020 by Allabord4Jah
Added site where article came from

[Lee49]

" No one must do their own research and come to their own decision. "

 

or - No, one must do their own research and come to their own decision. " ( commas do help ) 😆 there, I helped you!

[rocket]

2 hours ago, Allabord4Jah said:

This article was on my tablet under Google news.  I'll try to get the rest of it.  US NEWS TODAY, carried the article. But this paragraph caught my attention in the article:

Once you get vaccinated, can you still get sick? Can you still transmit the virus to other people?

Yes, it is possible that you could still get sick or transmit the virus to someone else, even after having received the vaccine, according to experts. "The vaccines are 90% effective. That means that there’s a small chance you could encounter the virus and still get sick," Schaffner said.

For example, data from Moderna showed that of 196 people in the clinical trial who caught COVID-19, 11 had received the vaccine. But none of those 11 participants had severe disease, suggesting that the vaccine prevented severe disease.

It's also possible to get sick if you don't give the vaccine enough time to provide protection. It typically takes "a few weeks" for the body to build immunity after vaccination, according to the CDC. So it's possible that someone could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 just before or just after vaccination and get sick.

 

********************************************************** 

This bothers me about the vaccines.  

According to the info provided, it will take two vaccinations, a month apart, to get to full immunity.  This is not so unlike the flue shot for the elderly.  Double dose required. Yes, you can get the flu after getting the flu shot but as with the COVID-19 shots the severity of the disease they say will be less.  Time will tell.

 

The fact is in all medical procedures including vaccines there is a risk. This is true in naturopath medicine too. A very good friend of mine is dead today because of naturepath medicine.

With vaccines a certain amount of people are going to have a bad reaction.  The same is true with aspirin or any other medication one takes. Risk verses benefit.

Edited December 3, 2020 by rocket

[califlorican]

4 hours ago, Allabord4Jah said:

This article was on my tablet under Google news.  I'll try to get the rest of it.  US NEWS TODAY, carried the article. But this paragraph caught my attention in the article:

Once you get vaccinated, can you still get sick? Can you still transmit the virus to other people?

Yes, it is possible that you could still get sick or transmit the virus to someone else, even after having received the vaccine, according to experts. "The vaccines are 90% effective. That means that there’s a small chance you could encounter the virus and still get sick," Schaffner said.

For example, data from Moderna showed that of 196 people in the clinical trial who caught COVID-19, 11 had received the vaccine. But none of those 11 participants had severe disease, suggesting that the vaccine prevented severe disease.

It's also possible to get sick if you don't give the vaccine enough time to provide protection. It typically takes "a few weeks" for the body to build immunity after vaccination, according to the CDC. So it's possible that someone could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 just before or just after vaccination and get sick.

 

********************************************************** 

This bothers me about the vaccines.  

 

My question is, what is the alternative to a vaccine in this system? Not go back to the Kingdom Hall, assembly hall, or convention center until the new system comes or enough people take the vaccine and become immune? Not meet up with friends indoors? Never again travel for an International or special convention? (because I believe a vaccination will be required to travel internationally for the next few years at least) The virus may die off on its own, but at the rate it’s going it will take hundreds of thousands or more lives first. Really, by not getting a vaccine, people will just (unknowingly?) be counting on others to do it for them. 

[hatcheckgirl]

That’s a valid point. Putting aside the concerns we all have regarding the rush job and ingredients and side effects, the reality  going forward is we are going to be faced with this scenario. Travel, possibly even work is going to be contingent on having the jab. I can see why the governments will quite possibly insist on this. Polio and other horrible diseases have been eradicated through mass vaccinations. And it worked! The precedence is set. So even if people have their own ideas about not having the jab, how this will look going into a post covid world, well, we’ll have to wait and see.

[Bob]

I find it disheartening that in 2020, scientists have to actually address the "is the COVID vaccine" safe question. Vaccines have protected us against diseases like measles, polio, now ebola, and soon to be Covid. 

 

Perhaps politics, not science, has seeded needless doubt and hesitancy this time. 

 

[Shawnster]

5 minutes ago, Bob said:

I find it disheartening that in 2020, scientists have to actually address the "is the COVID vaccine" safe question. Vaccines have protected us against diseases like measles, polio, now ebola, and soon to be Covid. 

 

Perhaps politics, not science, has seeded needless doubt and hesitancy this time. 

 

While I see your point, we also live in a world where anything rushed into production can have unintended and unforseen side effects or may be unstable.  This goes for anything.  Improved and increased safety only comes from time and refinement. 

 

How many corners were cut to rush the job into completion?  Look at the disaster early this year where those rush built Covid-19 hospitals in China collapsed because they really weren't safe. 

 

It's not always doubt and mistrust that fuels some skepticism, even in the 21st century. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Shawnster

[Bob]

10 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

While I see your point, we also live in a world where anything rushed into production can have unintended and unforseen side effects or may be unstable.  This goes for anything.  Improved and increased safety only comes from time and refinement. 

 

How many corners were cut to rush the job into completion?  Look at the disaster early this year where those rush built Covid-19 hospitals in China collapsed because they really weren't safe. 

 

It's not always doubt and mistrust that fuels some skepticism, even in the 21st century. 

Well, this has been addressed (I'll find the link). No corners were cut. They had unprecedented funding and people volunteering, along with breaking technology, to get this done. 

 

Funding is the number one barrier to vaccine development. But since this virus has devastated the entire world, there was obvious incentive to get everyone on-board like never before. Pockets are deep now, and volunteers are plentiful. 

[Bob]

15 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

While I see your point, we also live in a world where anything rushed into production can have unintended and unforseen side effects or may be unstable.  This goes for anything.  Improved and increased safety only comes from time and refinement. 

 

How many corners were cut to rush the job into completion?  Look at the disaster early this year where those rush built Covid-19 hospitals in China collapsed because they really weren't safe. 

 

It's not always doubt and mistrust that fuels some skepticism, even in the 21st century. 

Here's the link:

 

Anthony Fauci says COVID-19 vaccines are safe, not rushed (nypost.com)

 

Quote

“The process of the speed did not compromise at all safety, nor did it compromise scientific integrity,” Fauci said Thursday at the first White House coronavirus task force briefing in months.

“It was a reflection of the extraordinary scientific advances in these types of vaccines, which allowed us to do it in months that actually took years before,” the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said.

“So I really want to settle that concern that people have about that,” he said, calling the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines “really solid.”

 

[Shawnster]

36 minutes ago, Bob said:

Well, this has been addressed (I'll find the link). No corners were cut. They had unprecedented funding and people volunteering, along with breaking technology, to get this done. 

 

Regardless of what was addressed, people still feel the way they feel and this isn't entirely due to politics.  Lets look at some of the other topics you and I have been on the opposite side of in these discussions.  Are your feelings based on politics or do you feel your opinions have also been shaped by personal experience and history?  Aren't there examples where you have disagreed with the party line or "what has been addressed" and actually viewed with skepticism the information you've been fed from the media, including quotes from scientists and other authority figures?  Haven't you, even within these last twelve months, uttered or thought the phrase "just because you say it's true doesn't mean it's true" in response to something an authority has said?

[Bob]

9 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Regardless of what was addressed, people still feel the way they feel and this isn't entirely due to politics.  Lets look at some of the other topics you and I have been on the opposite side of in these discussions.  Are your feelings based on politics or do you feel your opinions have also been shaped by personal experience and history?  Aren't there examples where you have disagreed with the party line or "what has been addressed" and actually viewed with skepticism the information you've been fed from the media, including quotes from scientists and other authority figures?  Haven't you, even within these last twelve months, uttered or thought the phrase "just because you say it's true doesn't mean it's true" in response to something an authority has said?

You and I were on opposite sides of philosophical issues, primarily. Not proven science (like vaccines preventing disease). 

Edited December 3, 2020 by Bob

[Lee49]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/politics/obama-vaccine/index.html

 

Former Presidents Obama, Bush and Clinton volunteer to get coronavirus vaccine publicly to prove it's safe

 Former Presidents Barack Obama, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton are volunteering to get their Covid-19 vaccines on camera to promote public confidence in the vaccine's safety once the US Food and Drug Administration authorizes one.

 The three most recent former presidents hope an awareness campaign to promote confidence in its safety and effectiveness would be a powerful message as American public health officials try to convince the public to take the vaccine.

 President Bush will get in line for his, and will gladly do so on camera."

Clinton's press secretary told CNN on Wednesday that he too would be willing to take the vaccine in a public setting in order to promote it.

[Lee49]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/health/covid-19-vaccination-kit-record-card/index.html

 

Vaccination cards will be issued to everyone getting Covid-19 vaccine, health officials say

 

Vaccination cards will be used as the "simplest" way to keep track of Covid-19 shots, said Dr. Kelly Moore, associate director of the Immunization Action Coalition, which is supporting frontline workers who will administer Covid-19 vaccinations.

 Moore said many places are planning to ask patients to voluntarily provide a cell phone number, so they can get a text message telling them when and where their next dose is scheduled to be administered.

Every dose administered will be reported to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said Claire Hannan, executive director of the Association of Immunization Managers.

[Shawnster]

1 hour ago, Bob said:

You and I were on opposite sides of philosophical issues, primarily. Not proven science (like vaccines preventing disease). 

That is irrelevant to my questions.  And you are also twisting or changing my comments.  I'm not advocating ignoring vaccines.  I'm not coming from a position that vaccines don't work or are poison.  I'm not coming from an anti-vaxxer point of view.  Someone can accept vaccines but still be skeptical of this initial batch of vaccines that are just now coming online.  Someone can be a strong advocate of vaccines, yet still feel the need to proceed with caution and be skeptical when the very first vaccines that are on the market are stated to be 90% effective.  

 

Hey, I'm all for driving across a bridge.  However, if I am suspicious of how quickly that bridge was built, I'm going to wait and see how it stands up to daily traffic before I drive across it.  I might wait until the first big storm rolls through and see how well constructed said bridge is.  Bridges are proven constructions with a long history of success.  However, that doesn't mean this particular bridge might not be safe because the pressure to build it in such a short time resulted in cut corners.  

 

Someone can accept vaccines and still be cautious.

 

And no, we didn't disagree on only philosophical issues.  Again, though, that is irrelevant.  The fact is you felt your opposition on certain topics was not motivated by politics.  You felt strongly about your position based upon evidence, research, and your own experience and observation.  Please allow me the same dignity you give yourself.  My experience in humanity is telling me to be cautiously optimistic.  

 

I don't see me getting a vaccine for Covid until the end of 2021.  I'm going to be cautious.   I'm going to wait and see how this plays out and if the vaccine lives up to the claim.  I'm not anti-vaxxer and I'm not being influenced by politics or pseudo science.  

 

You gotta know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em.  

[Bob]

20 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

That is irrelevant to my questions.  And you are also twisting or changing my comments.  I'm not advocating ignoring vaccines.  I'm not coming from a position that vaccines don't work or are poison.  I'm not coming from an anti-vaxxer point of view. 

I'm confused. I don't think I commented on your personal views on vaccines.

[Naturale]

On 12/2/2020 at 2:53 AM, Shawnster said:

Isn't there aluminum in deodorant? 

 

If all these "toxins" in vaccines were really dangerous to health, wouldn't the majority of people be sicker than they are?  The facts show that these ingredients are not all that harmful in the minute quantities present in vaccines. 

 

 

You don't believe that the general health of humans in many places is worse now than ever before?  

 

Also many people use natural alternatives for deodorant.

[cricket246]

When I was younger I got a flu vaccine. I got so severely sick after taking it, that I thought I was gonna die and had to go to the hospital, was sick for a long time. Whether it caused it directly or weakened my already low immune system to where I caught the flu and a few other viruses/infections - either way, my dr's admonished me to avoid the flu vaccine after that. 

 

With this vaccine (As with any other form of treatment, my concerns would be :

* 1st, does it contain blood products or other ingredients that would be against Bible principles or my own conscience?

* 2nd, how much would it supress my immune system, putting me at risk for other infections?

* 3rd, what are the long term affects? Some medicines and treatments can cause damage down the road, by restructuring a person's dna makeup or damaging organs without us knowing.

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by cricket246

[Shawnster]

52 minutes ago, Bob said:

I'm confused. I don't think I commented on your personal views on vaccines.

No, but your assertion is 

 

3 hours ago, Bob said:

I find it disheartening that in 2020, scientists have to actually address the "is the COVID vaccine" safe question. Vaccines have protected us against diseases like measles, polio, now ebola, and soon to be Covid. 

 

Perhaps politics, not science, has seeded needless doubt and hesitancy this time. 

 

So, your premise is politics is influencing people's hesitancy. Although you use the word "perhaps," you do not seem to allow room or entertain the idea people might be hesitant for another reason. 

 

Further, 

 

2 hours ago, Bob said:

You and I were on opposite sides of philosophical issues, primarily. Not proven science (like vaccines preventing disease). 

I took this statement, along with the link from Fauci to indicate your position is if someone is hesitant to accept this vaccine that they are bucking against proven science.  Further, by using Fauci's quote I concluded your point is that since Fauci said it, then it must be true, there is no reason to be hesitant of this vaccine. 

 

My point was people can be rational, informed, accepting of proven science and still be hesitant to take Fauci at his word and be reluctant to embrace this initial vaccine release.  I'm not saying Fauci is lying or there is a conspiracy, but simply that sometimes caution is warranted based on past performance over 6,000 years. 

[blue-jay]

1 hour ago, Naturale said:

You don't believe that the general health of humans in many places is worse now than ever before?  

 

Also many people use natural alternatives for deodorant.

My daughter can't have deodorant that has aluminum or she gets a rash that looks and hurts like a burn.

[Qapla]

Without taking a side for or against this, or any, vaccine ... and with caution in mind it does well to keep in mind recent events

 

The Boeing 737 max is a good example. It passed all the required tests and specs required by the industry and Gov't inspectors and was approved for flight - then started falling out of the skies.

 

They found they had something wrong that was "missed" during the approval process. They now say those things have been fixed and the plane is once again approved for usage.

 

I would hate to find out the hard way that something similar has happened with one of these vaccines that have been "fast tracked" (didn't want to say 'rushed') and fall victim to the same end as those who were in those 737 max planes that crashed.

 

When there is sufficient proof these vaccines are safe I will not object to the jab - just don't want to be "first in line" for something that has not been "time tested" or has been "fast tracked".

 

 

[Bob]

15 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

No, but your assertion is 

 

So, your premise is politics is influencing people's hesitancy. Although you use the word "perhaps," you do not seem to allow room or entertain the idea people might be hesitant for another reason. 

 

Further, 

 

I took this statement, along with the link from Fauci to indicate your position is if someone is hesitant to accept this vaccine that they are bucking against proven science.  Further, by using Fauci's quote I concluded your point is that since Fauci said it, then it must be true, there is no reason to be hesitant of this vaccine. 

 

My point was people can be rational, informed, accepting of proven science and still be hesitant to take Fauci at his word and be reluctant to embrace this initial vaccine release.  I'm not saying Fauci is lying or there is a conspiracy, but simply that sometimes caution is warranted based on past performance over 6,000 years. 

Well, its clear that politics plays in role in vaccine hesitancy in the US (the COVID vaccine in particular). Here is one example:

 

Quote

Susan Bailey, a 57-year-old retired nurse from Florida, has had all her jabs and gets a flu shot every year. She's a vocal Joe Biden supporter -- and one of a growing number of people globally who say they wouldn't take a coronavirus vaccine even if one becomes available soon.

"I'm not anti-vaccine. My kids were both vaccinated with everything, but I would not take a Covid vaccine today," Bailey told CNN.

"I have underlying health issues ... I would want to see enough studies in a long-term period of what the ramifications are for the vaccine."

Bailey said she doesn't trust US President Donald Trump, and that consensus around a vaccine among the world's top scientists and at least six months of testing would be just "a start" in persuading her to take it. "It's much too soon for me, I'd have to say, 18 months."

Coronavirus vaccines hesitancy: Concern over Covid-19 jab - CNN

 

What does Trump have to do with developing a vaccine? Absolutely nothing. He's not developing the vaccine. He's not in the lab. He's not conducting experiments. He's just providing funding. 

 

Furthermore:

 

Quote

Moncef Slaoui during an interview with CNN's "State of the Union" attributed polls showing a decreased public willingness to be inoculated against COVID-19 to the process being "politicized."

Vaccine czar: 'Unfortunate' that COVID-19 vaccine 'has been politicized' (msn.com)

 

So while its my humble opinion this is publicized and people are hesitant for that reason, I am not asserting you in particular are refusing it on those grounds.  

Edited December 3, 2020 by Bob

[Naturale]

2 minutes ago, blue-jay said:

My daughter can't have deodorant that has aluminum or she gets a rash that looks and hurts like a burn.

I just buy the bottles of pure lemon and mix with a tiny bit of water

 

 

(Yes I know armpits are off topic :D)