Governing Body update #8

[Pabo]

9 hours ago, Shannie said:

Just stop Zoom altogether…. Bring back the phone tie in lines … didn’t have zoom before the pandemic don’t need it now that we are able to go in person..

 

We were using Skype as our congregation hookup long before the pandemic (however we only used audio only as our internet wasn't up to speed for visual), but switched to Zoom when the pandemic started as it was a better product. So for our congregation, Zoom will be here to stay as our Kingdom Hall connection.

 

As we do have a congregation about a 40% of elderly, we generally do have a few that Zoom at night and attend on the weekend, but generally we have about 3:1 ratio of those at the KH midweek and about 5:1 ratio on the weekend. However, in the past few weeks it has been an upsurge in Zoom attendees due to genuine needs, as COVID has made the rounds with a fair few contracting it. Even the PT speaker had to Zoom in on Sunday as his wife had COVID but he however tested negative, but didn't want to spread it by coming up. Last midweek meeting was only the third time where Zoom attendees outnumbered those at the KH (by 1) or have been in hospital or are isolating themselves due to having some family members being sick (COVID or other).

 

I was talking with a brother yesterday at the KH about the GB update and he said well everyone in the congregation would have at least missed being an in-person meeting as it has been just 8 months since we started. I said "pretty well much for most, but there is only one person in our congregation who has attended every in-person since March." He said "Who can that be?" I replied "I'll just leave it for you to figure that out". Then he started mulling over who it could be, and he later came back and worked it out who it is, it is I.

 

[zoebarry]

On 12/4/2022 at 10:05 AM, Shannie said:

Just stop Zoom altogether…. Bring back the phone tie in lines … didn’t have zoom before the pandemic don’t need it now that we are able to go in person..

it really has made a lot of people although able bodied to get to meetings LAZY… or reason with themselves I can just go on zoom..

 

Do we actually know the circumstances of each and every person who attends meeting on zoom? Jehovah knows them all. Even if a brother or sister looks PHYSICALLY fine to attend meeting in person, we have no idea what their mental state is. As some on the forum have stated they are having mental struggles to go to in person meetings.

 

If a person attends meeting on zoom, it does not mean that Jehovah views their worship less than those that attend in person. What clearly the GB is stating is it is that we will benefit even more by attending in person.

[Tortuga]

35 minutes ago, zoebarry said:

It’s these types of comments such as yours it causes divisions.

Thank you for mentioning that that's why we are encouraged to be kind and lovingly at all times, to everyone, because we don't know the other persons circumstances or thought process.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Tortuga

[Shawnster]

43 minutes ago, zoebarry said:

It’s these types of comments such as yours it causes divisions.

Only if we allow it. Ps 119:165

 

47 minutes ago, zoebarry said:

clearly the GB is stating is it is for our OWN BENEFIT that we attend in person….

Yes. It's best to follow their lead. They are not pointing fingers or casting shade. They are asking us to continue to personally reflect on our circumstances. 

 

[Shannie]

1 hour ago, zoebarry said:

I find your comment very judgemental. Do you actually know the circumstances of each and every person who attends meeting on zoom? It is not up to you to decide whether their excuse for being on zoom is legitimate or not, Jehovah knows all.

 

Even if a brother or sister looks PHYSICALLY fine to attend meeting in person, you have no idea what their mental state is. As some on the forum have stated they are having mental struggles to go to in person meetings.

 

if a person attends meeting on zoom, it does not mean that Jehovah views their worship LESS than those that attend in person. What clearly the GB is stating is it is for our OWN BENEFIT that we attend in person…. it is not up to ANY OF US to decide whether someone should to attend meetings in person or on zoom. IT’S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. Period.

 

It’s these types of comments such as yours it causes divisions.

We all have our views

[jwhess]

On a larger scale, it IS the responsibility of the appointed shepherds to guide the sheep to the best and most productive experience in learning the Truth.  This is their job.  If the GB tells the shepherds one way has better success then it is the responsibility of a good shepherd to share that advice, admonition and direction with the flock.  Don't get upset with us, don't shoot the messenger.  The elders did not invent the direction.  We merely, humbly pass it on.

 

A couple of months ago we had a Midweek Meeting part on advising us to attend in person.  I was given that part to present.  I felt a little negative "push-back" sensing that I was treading on their "rights".  We are a Theocratic organization.  We are directed from the top down.  I am sure most will not contemplate taking issue with Br. Morris (or heaven forbid, with his master Jesus).  So try not to be too hard on a low-level minister who is just passing on the directive. 

 

Can you imagine a person wanting Noah to allow him a "teleconference attachment" and being miffed if Noah suggested an "In-Person" attendance might be life-saving.  How about our "basement video" of a couple of years ago.  Elders were risking their lives to check on our safety.  How many of those calls were "tele-conferences".  The picture of the young brother climbing into the attic to meet with others hiding there, they did not even have electronics there,.  the person in the fore-ground was opening a box that held printed Bibles and publications and passing them around.  I think yo had to be "In-Person" to get your copy.

 

We all believe the end is near.  Next month, next year...will you be there of just wondering when the video will come back on.  Currently, Zoom offers an option but I think the end of all we know is coming soon...❤️

[Sister Susie]

I am doing the best I can and at 73, I take the threat of covid seriously.  More people in my congregation have come down with covid lately then during the "pandemic".  Last month a brother came into my store and as he was leaving, mentioned he had a cold and was getting tested.  Yes, covid.  Thankfully I still wear a mask and practice distancing.  At the CO visit, a cargroup of sisters came down with covid.  Several congregation sisters and their close relatives seem to pass it from family member to family member and have had covid multiple times and their fleshly elderly father has recently been in and out of the hospital due to covid. 

 

I chose not to get the vaccinations but I believe I have a valid reason.  I have not been back to the Kingdom Hall, but I also don't go out to dinner, to the movies or any other crowded destinations.  When I must go to the market, I go very early in the morning when most people are still in bed.  I am in service with the same sister who I know is as careful as I try to be.  She has had the vaccinations but has immunity & other health issues that unfortunately just pulled her off the Pioneer list..

 

I am sure I will be going back to the Kingdom Hall at some point but I'm not sure when.  I do not believe I am lazy.  And I don't believe that others in the congregation who continue on Zoom are either.  I reason that 

I am more help to Jehovah alive than dead,  so I continue to be cautious

 

Jehovah knows I love him and that I try to be obedient.  I trust that if he wants me in the new system...I won't be left out.  

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Shannie said:

We all have our views

And sometimes those views are best kept to ourselves.  That doesn't make us right or wrong.  But it does make us a peacemaker. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Shawnster

[CHecker]

31 minutes ago, Sister Susie said:

I am sure I will be going back to the Kingdom Hall at some point but I'm not sure when.  I do not believe I am lazy.  And I don't believe that others in the congregation who continue on Zoom are either.  I reason that 

I am more help to Jehovah alive than dead,  so I continue to be cautious

 

Jehovah knows I love him and that I try to be obedient.  I trust that if he wants me in the new system...I won't be left out.  

I also work around people and many have come down with covid as well as brothers and sisters. One man where I work still hasn't taken his mask and gloves off, his wife is an anesthesiologist and so to protect the hospital HE needs to be very cautious. So being on Zoom works for many to protect others as well as themselves.

Edited December 5, 2022 by bagwell1987

[pnutts]

Without Zoom, we would not have had our weekend meeting at all. Power was in and out just before our scheduled meeting on Saturday,

thus meeting was postponed until Sunday and had to be on Zoom because the hall was in use by other congregations.

[Shannie]

2 hours ago, jwhess said:

On a larger scale, it IS the responsibility of the appointed shepherds to guide the sheep to the best and most productive experience in learning the Truth.  This is their job.  If the GB tells the shepherds one way has better success then it is the responsibility of a good shepherd to share that advice, admonition and direction with the flock.  Don't get upset with us, don't shoot the messenger.  The elders did not invent the direction.  We merely, humbly pass it on.

 

A couple of months ago we had a Midweek Meeting part on advising us to attend in person.  I was given that part to present.  I felt a little negative "push-back" sensing that I was treading on their "rights".  We are a Theocratic organization.  We are directed from the top down.  I am sure most will not contemplate taking issue with Br. Morris (or heaven forbid, with his master Jesus).  So try not to be too hard on a low-level minister who is just passing on the directive. 

 

Can you imagine a person wanting Noah to allow him a "teleconference attachment" and being miffed if Noah suggested an "In-Person" attendance might be life-saving.  How about our "basement video" of a couple of years ago.  Elders were risking their lives to check on our safety.  How many of those calls were "tele-conferences".  The picture of the young brother climbing into the attic to meet with others hiding there, they did not even have electronics there,.  the person in the fore-ground was opening a box that held printed Bibles and publications and passing them around.  I think yo had to be "In-Person" to get your copy.

 

We all believe the end is near.  Next month, next year...will you be there of just wondering when the video will come back on.  Currently, Zoom offers an option but I think the end of all we know is coming soon...❤️

LOVE this comment!!!!!! And I agree!!

[Paul20]

16 hours ago, Shannie said:

Just stop Zoom altogether…. Bring back the phone tie in lines … didn’t have zoom before the pandemic don’t need it now that we are able to go in person.

 

I'm fine to follow whatever the GB recommends. They are appointed to make these types of decisions. We need to keep pace with the organization and not be running ahead.

[runner92]

22 hours ago, Thomas Walker said:

It stings, sometimes.

 

The latest GB update (very politely) spanked those of us who were Zooming it without being sick. In my case, I'm always just 'sick enough' to justify staying home; but I get it the message. Every now and then, it feels like there's no way to be a Witness and an introvert. Some people have to overcome past sins, some people have to overcome ingrained bad habits. The only real problem I have is being myself.

 

In my town, they've just closed the last testing site, and admit that the RAT tests barely work on the new variants. But they're sick of talking about it, so the pandemic is over. By the numbers, more of my Cong has COVID now than we did during the lockdowns; and yet we're going back to in-person Assemblies next year.

 

I know I'm a minority here, and that the update is aimed at everyone; but every time I hear one interview after another talking about "The joy we feel" and "Can you believe the Joy" and "Oh, there's so much Joy", it breaks my brain, because I'm in the: 'Conventions in person next year. Take this time to examine your attitude' category. Except I have been that way since I was about twelve. Where does attitude end and basic personality begin?

 

 

I understand how you feel. I'm coming to terms with the fact that I will probably never be the most social, outgoing person, and trying to fake it every single day does nothing but wear me down. I don't have feelings of joy going to the meetings like so many seem to feel, because I don't really enjoy being around a lot of people either. My parents, who are extroverted and love to socialize, also always want to be there 20 minutes early and stay for a long period after, and it stresses me out. I'll stay around for 10-15 minutes after the meeting then go sit in the car. I guess this is just our burden until the new system.

 

That said, I felt worse when I was just on Zoom all the time. I think the brief interactions are good because we all need some exposure to others. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by runner92

[Áine]

23 hours ago, Thomas Walker said:

It stings, sometimes.

 

The latest GB update (very politely) spanked those of us who were Zooming it without being sick. In my case, I'm always just 'sick enough' to justify staying home; but I get it the message. Every now and then, it feels like there's no way to be a Witness and an introvert. Some people have to overcome past sins, some people have to overcome ingrained bad habits. The only real problem I have is being myself.

 

In my town, they've just closed the last testing site, and admit that the RAT tests barely work on the new variants. But they're sick of talking about it, so the pandemic is over. By the numbers, more of my Cong has COVID now than we did during the lockdowns; and yet we're going back to in-person Assemblies next year.

 

I know I'm a minority here, and that the update is aimed at everyone; but every time I hear one interview after another talking about "The joy we feel" and "Can you believe the Joy" and "Oh, there's so much Joy", it breaks my brain, because I'm in the: 'Conventions in person next year. Take this time to examine your attitude' category. Except I have been that way since I was about twelve. Where does attitude end and basic personality begin?

I absolutely agree with you, I have a introvert personality and love my own company… one thing I noticed was that lockdown encouraged me to be like that and I have to say that I loved that time!

 

 I have been back to the meeting but I’m now trying to shield my mother who is 88 and the past few weeks I’ve been trying to keep my husband safe as he has a large operation this week….

 

 However one thing I have found is that I don’t feel as close to the brothers and sisters and that’s purely down to not associating… It’s dragging me down and it’s something that I need to put right, so as soon as I can I’ll be back at the KH 

 

there is obviously a world wide problem in trying to motivate some people to get back to the kh … I don’t think it’s down to laziness at all, maybe the odd few but I think that most of us want to be there and may need a bit of motivation to return

 

 we had KHCONF before and now thankfully we have zoom… I think it’sa blessing for many who are unable to be there in person, they can still be an encouragement to others by their participation and can still be part of field ministry, I know that my mother in particular never misses a zoom meeting 

 

 

[Mykyl]

Direction from our CO was to drop zoom ministry. All congregation ministry is in person now. Is that new? Not heard it anywhere else so far. 
We can do our own personal ministry over zoom if we wish but no official congregation ministry meetings on zoom. 

[Pabo]

49 minutes ago, Mykyl said:

Direction from our CO was to drop zoom ministry. All congregation ministry is in person now. Is that new? Not heard it anywhere else so far. 
We can do our own personal ministry over zoom if we wish but no official congregation ministry meetings on zoom. 

 

I haven't heard anything about Zoom stopped being used for the ministry meetings, but again, it might be just a recommendation suggested by your CO to get more brothers out in the field service group to benefit your congregation.

 

I know some can benefit from connecting to a field service group with Zoom, especially when they cannot be physically be able to meet the group due to frailty etc, and we have a few of these.

 

At the moment our congregation does our Monday group as Zoom only, the other weekday groups as hybrid being conducted at the KH. But I am unsure who does the Zoom for the Saturday morning group, as we only just started meeting in our smaller groups instead of just being combined.  Ironically, the groups had to be combined again as we have several of the group overseers being in hospital or sick or unavailable. And our Sunday group is only at the KH after the meeting.

 

We had our CO visit just as we started to go public ministry back in early October and we still used a hybrid setup with the field service group for all of those days. But on the next visit, it may changed if there are specific needs that may be passed onto CO's if the public ministry may also be suffering from not people going out door to door.

[Amygdala]

Brother Morris had clearly addressed the fact that elderly and sick ones certainly have valid reasons to use Zoom. The direction was for those who really didn’t have reason to stay home except for convenience. How one wants to define that is a personal conscience matter.

 

As already mentioned many times, Zoom has been a blessing for those who cannot attend in-person. Plus for those who fall sick due to COVID, illness, etc., they still are able to participate, particularly in the way of giving talks (except for symptomatic coughing, sore throat, hoarse voice, or feverish individuals), which certainly is an advantage for smaller congregations.

[Brother_Bliss]

On 12/4/2022 at 4:05 AM, Shannie said:

Just stop Zoom altogether…. Bring back the phone tie in lines … didn’t have zoom before the pandemic don’t need it now that we are able to go in person..

it really has made a lot of people although able bodied to get to meetings LAZY… or reason with themselves I can just go on zoom..

 

Actually, the organization bought KHConf before the pandemic and video streaming capabilities were being added to it. Cameras were being installed in Kingdom Halls to support this feature before the coronavirus forced us to onto Zoom. The plan was that you could either dial in, OR open your KHConf app and watch the meeting. KHConf even allowed ones to participate from home for years if your congregation was set up with the proper equipment.

So video streaming was on the way anyway, Covid or not.

 

"My ears have heard about you, but now I do see you with my eyes." (Job 42:5).

 

[Shawnster]

17 minutes ago, Brother_Bliss said:

Actually, the organization bought KHConf before the pandemic and video streaming capabilities were being added to it. Cameras were being installed in Kingdom Halls to support this feature before the coronavirus forced us to onto Zoom. The plan was that you could either dial in, OR open your KHConf app and watch the meeting. KHConf even allowed ones to participate from home for years if your congregation was set up with the proper equipment

 

 

Zoom has this capability.  There is a KHconf app for Roku.  An elder can send a publisher an email with a confirmation code. You input the code into the KHconf app on Roku and then the app is connected to your congregation Zoom session. You can watch the Zoom stream of the meeting on TV via roku.  Your attendance is counted by the KHconf software.  You cannot participate and nobody can see you are connected. 

 

It's a nice alternative but it limits you to just passively watching.  On the other hand, if you connect to Zoom via computer or mobile device you can participate and everyone can see you are in attendance 

[cricket246]

I have multiple health problems and thank Jehovah for Zoom, as my elderly mother and I have many health limitations.
 

The hall is kept cooler to keep germs at bay, but that air negatively effects my circulatory diseases. 

 

We also have those who are housebound & immobilized - zoom was the first time they were able to letter write with a group as they can't be around alot of people with her health risks.

 

I would much rather have good health and be able to attend the meetings, but I feel zoom is a blessing from Jehovah. ❤️ I

'll follow whatever Jehovah decides, but I pray He allows this provision to continue for those who cannot attend due to legit health problems. ❤️ 

Edited December 5, 2022 by cricket246

[Shawnster]

It's clear in-person attendance is an issue otherwise we would have had yet another reminder on the benefits of in person meetings.

 

 

Obviously those with genuine health problems or concerns are doing the best they can to be on Zoom. They are to be commended and appreciated.  These reminders are not for them. 

 

On the other hand, it does get discouraging when you see a person at a gathering eating food, sharing the same serving utensils as everyone else, hugging or shaking hands, sitting and playing cards, only to then hear that same person say they don't attend in-person meetings or service because of the pandemic.  It's clearly a mixed signal they are sending.  

 

We all do well to reflect on our circumstances.  Can we push ourselves? Is a little inconvenience worth attending in person? Will Jehovah bless our sacrifice? Just how far does "if at all possible" go? 

[Hope]

On 12/4/2022 at 1:05 AM, Shannie said:

Just stop Zoom altogether…. Bring back the phone tie in lines … didn’t have zoom before the pandemic don’t need it now that we are able to go in person..

it really has made a lot of people although able bodied to get to meetings LAZY… or reason with themselves I can just go on zoom..

 

Y'know - I'm really unhappy about how we've been taking advantage of Zoom.  It's an INCREDIBLE provision. A spiritual life-saver to us all during the pandemic and and beautiful phone tie-in improvement for those who are infirm (plus no limit, like the phone has).  It's wonderful for occasions when some may be sick or running so late from work they may miss the meeting altogether.  For the record, I personally miss a LOT of things about our Zoom meeting/service past.  A lot...   And I also will admit that, despite being a regular in-person attender, I *have* Zoomed in a couple of meetings because I just didn't feel like going out that night or getting dressed to go on Sunday.  I bet I'm not the only one.. but if so, I still own it and take the spanking.  

 

But MAN!!!  SO many are not at meetings!  A recent midweek of ours had 90 on Zoom and 45 at the Hall.  We've not had a congregation COVID outbreak.  There have been the usual sick kids, etc.  But that particular night happened to be dark, chilly and raining. Only one in-person student part given. 😕  Five years ago, everyone would be at the Hall.  Now, it's too easy not to be... and the GB know this (especially since we're allowed "to make our own decisions").  They're getting attendance reports from the circuit overseers and saying, "what on earth...?" 

 

I like how they featured, not only the sister from Congo's gratitude, but also the older American sister's.  Our in-person meetings are so important, such a privilege.  It's ironic that I've encouraged a couple of sisters to return to the Hall because, as they're concerned about germs, they can very easily sit in a row unto themselves, since hardly anyone is there. 😢 

 

Now with the advent of bad, icy weather - and increased illness - it's incredible we won't have to cancel a meeting or service time because of outside conditions.  In times past, we'd cancel at least two or three per season.  Not necessary now... but if the Slave believes Zoom is being abused, who knows what will be the outcome?

 

C'mon friends.  People are comfortable doing so many other things in public.  Is it so scary to attend Jehovah's house twice a week... in a building that's probably cleaner than any of our homes? 😉  You really don't have to touch anyone you don't want to.  And you can still wear your mask, if you wish.

 

/end rant  ❤️ 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Hope

[Hope]

Something else that's curious to me.  Several in our congregation who do not attend in-person meetings *will* meet for in-person service... and spend a good couple of hours in the close quarters of a car group - not just with their families.  I do not understand that rationale at all.  :shrug:

[SUNRAY]

I just updated my JW Library app and there is a pending update for #8..anyone know what is updated?😉

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, SUNRAY said:

I just updated my JW Library app and there is a pending update for #8..anyone know what is updated?😉

In such situations this is likely a coding issue that possibly caused some devices to crash or couldn't play the video.  Or some other glitch was fixed.