Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[Old]

57 minutes ago, runner92 said:

NVM

Node Version Manager?

[AH173]

On 12/26/2020 at 8:26 AM, Naturale said:

In order to make a monoclonal antibody an antigen is injected into a mouse or a rat.  The animal naturally produces lymphocytes, which produce antibodies specific to the antigen Spleen cells which produce the lymphocytes.  An operation on the animal removes spleen cells. The spleen cells are fused with human cancerous white blood cells called myeloma cells to form hybridoma cells which divide indefinitely.  These hybridoma cells divide and produce millions of monoclonal antibodies specific to the original antigen

 

 

If what you write is true in some or all cases of animal testing for the benefit of humankind, the FDS has wrote material on this subject.

Awake July, 8 1990 pages 3-11 is the source.

 

Quote

*** g90 7/8 pp. 3-4 Animal Research—Blessing or Curse? ***

Virtually all the diseases that have been eliminated or brought under control in this century—polio, diphtheria, mumps, measles, rubella, smallpox, and others—have been conquered through animal research. Anesthetics and analgesics, intravenous feeding and medications, radiation therapy and chemotherapy for cancer, all were tested and proved effective first on animals. And these are but a few.

“There is virtually no major treatment or surgical procedure in modern medicine that could have been developed without animal research,” said a noted neurologist, Dr. Robert J. White. “Work with dogs and other animals led to the discovery of insulin and the control of diabetes, to open-heart surgery, the cardiac pacemaker and the whole area of organ transplantation. Polio . . . has been almost totally eradicated in the United States by preventive vaccines perfected on monkeys. By working with animals, researchers have raised the cure rate for children afflicted with acute lymphocytic leukemia from four percent in 1965 to 70 percent today,” the same doctor said.

The role of animal research is confirmed by former laboratory assistant Harold Pierson, who worked under Dr. F. C. Robbins at Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, U.S.A. He told Awake! that their program to discover an oral vaccine for polio involved using monkey kidneys. The tissue from one kidney could be used for thousands of tests. He explained: “The monkeys were kept in humane conditions and were always under anesthetic when they were operated on. Certainly there was no deliberate cruelty. However, by reason of their operations, they were involuntary victims of scientific cruelty.”

 

*** g90 7/8 p. 11 Animal Research—A Balanced View ***
Biblical Viewpoint

Following the global Flood in Noah’s day, Jehovah God issued this edict to Noah and to his offspring, which includes our generation: “Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat.” (Genesis 9:1, 3, 4) Animal skins could also be used for clothing. This would not violate man’s God-given dominion over the animal kingdom.—Genesis 3:21.

“If animals may be used as food to sustain people’s lives,” wrote the Awake! magazine of June 22, 1980, “it seems reasonable to use them in medical experiments to save lives. However, this is no license for unrestricted and often valueless, repetitious experiments involving intense suffering.” Certainly, from the Biblical viewpoint, heartless cruelty to animals cannot be justified.—Exodus 23:4, 5, 12; Deuteronomy 25:4; Proverbs 12:10.
 

 

 

On 12/26/2020 at 1:56 PM, AH173 said:

In a very important matter like this, even if one had good intentions, they should not run ahead of the chariot in this manner. 

 

I believe the Faithful Slave will do things that does not stir up contentions among the friends and they have better resources of information from independent thinkers whomever they are.

 

Patience in this matter is needed like in Watchtower study like in the circumcision issue which predated the Mosaic Law among the 1st century Christians.

 

 

23 hours ago, normaclutter said:

But also the Faithful and Discreet Slave has always encouraged us to be informed, whether  on the blood issue or anything else we have questions about. They encourage us to pray and research and be informed before we make any decisions. They have never told us to accept blindly any information they give. Even with the blood issue, we have additional information that comes from “outside” sources to aid us in our decision. And there are details that we are all responsible to figure out on whether certain parts of the blood issue is right or wrong for us (fractions).  It is NOT running ahead of the chariot to use our God given brains and power of reasoning to figure out what personal medical decisions we should make. We are taught to study and research. We are taught to ask questions. Yes... we definitely take what they say very seriously. Very seriously. But then it is up to us to choose what direction to go in. We each have a conscience .... and it’s ok by Jehovah that they are not all exactly the same. We grew up differently, we are influenced by life long learning. The most important thing is that we show love for each other, stay united, and stay awake to any direction given us. And even all those things are choices. Each person must personally figure out if they are acceptable to Jehovah according to his principles. The FDS gives us plenty of food to HELP us make those decisions. They rest is up to our own intelligent selves. 

I appreciate your points even though with undertones of contention displayed. We are not on our own with the gathering of medical information for ourselves or families. The FDS and its Hospital Information Services department are well equipped to assist no doubt in  many medical issues. These should be inquired of  and relied on which would be of great assistance to the worldwide congregation as needed in making life and death decisions. It too is a provision from Jehovah.

[AH173]

On 12/22/2020 at 11:23 AM, Maria Keerie said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/22/vatican-says-getting-covid-vaccine-morally-acceptable

 

Just been sent this article regarding the Vaccine a brother has done much research into one being produced in the UK 

 

The brother has done research and found the following :

 

 

I spent a while researching that a while ago and again since Covid kicked off. I’m absolutely not offering any opinion on the ethics or suitability either way what so ever, but I found it helpful in making my own decision so if anyone’s interested - the most commonly used cells of this type were apparently harvested from aborted foetuses in the 1960s and 70s and have been mostly lab-cultured from those original cells ever since. 

Cells from such sources are used in various vaccines already, including Chickenpox, Shingles, Hep A and Rubella (the R in MMR).

As far as I found only the Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine contains such cells, and that one hasn’t yet been approved.

 

On 12/23/2020 at 5:31 PM, normaclutter said:

It seems some (not all and apparently not the two that our Organization has already let us know do not include blood) manufacturers of covid 19 vaccinations are using aborted fetal cell lines in the production of their vaccines. The aborted fetal tissue comes from fetuses aborted in 1972 and also in the 1985. This may not bother some people. I am just letting anyone know who is interested. This is for information purposes only. Not looking for a debate.

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/abortion-opponents-protest-covid-19-vaccines-use-fetal-cells

 

On 12/23/2020 at 6:40 PM, hatcheckgirl said:

Thanks Norma for that info.  I also found some more info on the fetal cell lines and the vaccines:

 

“Unlike the aforementioned COVID-19 vaccine candidates that rely on abortion-derived cells for their ongoing production, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine used the HEK-293 cell line from a 1972 abortion only to confirm that messenger RNA was properly coding for the spike protein of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. While still ethically disconcerting, the fact that this remote and limited interaction with abortion does not involve the continuing use of an aborted fetal cell line makes it less ethically problematic compared to its competitors than use these cell lines for ongoing vaccine production.“

 

By contrast:

 

“Deciding which COVID-19 vaccine poses the least ethical concerns hinges in part on the implication of abortion in (a) the initial design of the vaccine, (b) the confirmatory testing of the vaccine, and (c) the ongoing production of the vaccine. Vaccines that continue to use the abortion-derived cell line in ongoing production pose the most obvious ethical barrier to use by pro-life individuals. This category includes vaccines by AstraZeneca–University of Oxford and by Janssen–Johnson & Johnson. In fact, these vaccines employ abortion-related cell lines in all three stages—design, confirmation, and production.”

 

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/11/72753/

(This site has reasonable ethical discussions by pro-life medical doctors and ethics professionals. I only was interested in highlighting their research on the Pfizer vaccine as they explained the fetal cell lines very well).

 

 

 

On 12/26/2020 at 9:06 AM, Maria Keerie said:

A brother researched this and he found it to be the Astra /Zenika (Oxford vaccine) that is being produced at Oxford University UK that has used this , this one is not yet     approved but let us know from his research as below , so that we can make a informed choice as we will likely be offered this one first in the UK if approved .

Quote from his message

I spent a while researching that a while ago and again since Covid kicked off. I’m absolutely not offering any opinion on the ethics or suitability either way what so ever, but I found it helpful in making my own decision so if anyone’s interested - the most commonly used cells of this type were apparently harvested from aborted foetuses in the 1960s and 70s and have been mostly lab-cultured from those original cells ever since. 

Cells from such sources are used in various vaccines already, including Chickenpox, Shingles, Hep A and Rubella (the R in MMR).

As far as I found only the Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine contains such cells, and that one hasn’t yet been approved.

 

Seems there is a dissenting voice in this point.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/nov/18/facebook-posts/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-does-not-contain-aborte/

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by AH173
update

[vern]

Personal cause some get damaged...

 

Hope you don.t... Don.t fault any that do and speak up.

 

[normadenardo]

1 hour ago, AH173 said:

If what you write is true in some or all cases of animal testing for the benefit of humankind, the FDS has wrote material on this subject.

Awake July, 8 1990 pages 3-11 is the source.

 

 

 

 

I appreciate your points even though with undertones of contention displayed. We are not on our own with the gathering of medical information for ourselves or families. The FDS and its Hospital Information Services department are well equipped to assist no doubt in  many medical issues. These should be inquired of  and relied on which would be of great assistance to the worldwide congregation as needed in making life and death decisions. It too is a provision from Jehovah.

Absolutely no contention intended. Was just trying to thoroughly express my feelings/viewpoint. Maybe a bit too passionately. My apologies.  

[M.J.]

15 minutes ago, normaclutter said:

Absolutely no contention intended. Was just trying to thoroughly express my feelings/viewpoint. Maybe a bit too passionately. My apologies.  

I thought your comment was well balanced. I didn't see any contention at all.

[hatcheckgirl]

56 minutes ago, AH173 said:

Seems there is a dissenting voice in this point.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/nov/18/facebook-posts/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-does-not-contain-aborte/

 

The article you quoted is true.  However that is not what Norma or I were saying. I appreciated Norma took the time to find an article that was as balanced as you can get regarding the fetal cell line used in vaccine production.  We may both believe differently due to personal choice when it comes to vaccination. But the different articles we quoted from show that the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine production is different in that it uses HEK-293 in all three stages of production, compared with the Pfizer and Moderna one which only uses it to confirm the messenger RNA was properly coded to look for SARS-CoV-2 virus.

 

What we quoted from does not dissent from the article you quoted from, which debunked the allegation that “aborted male foetus” is in the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. That FB lie is definitely misinformation, and neither of us were endorsing that claim, nor the articles we quoting from.

 

@Maria Keerie I cannot vouch for what your quote from a brother you know, since he may have been referencing a similar claim that the debunked FB video. Please quote instead from a reputable source, otherwise it’s hearsay. 

[New World Explorer]

European Union started vaccinations on Sunday,  

 

All E.U. member nations now have a supply of vaccine on hand to distribute

In Poland, November was the deadliest month since the end of World War II.

With nearly 1,000 deaths recorded in Germany each day in the week before Christmas, a crematory in the eastern state of Saxony operated around the clock, straight through the holiday, to keep up.

Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez wrote on Twitter that the vaccinations marked “a hopeful new chapter.”

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/12/27/world/covid-19-coronavirus-updates

 

 

[Naturale]

16 hours ago, AH173 said:

If what you write is true in some or all cases of animal testing for the benefit of humankind, the FDS has wrote material on this subject.

Awake July, 8 1990 pages 3-11 is the source.

 

They don't say these things now though.

There are ethical issues regards developing monoclonal antibodies and what is involved with it both with animal testing and cruelty and with genetic engineering which goes beyond certain boundaries.  There is a lot involved and knowledge of a subject is vital.

Each individual makes their own decisions.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Naturale

[The Outcast]

9 minutes ago, Naturale said:

They don't say these things now though.

Do you have a reference for this statement? I couldn't find any evidence of this.

It would be nice if you could give a reference to our literature.

[Naturale]

3 minutes ago, The German said:

Do you have a reference for this statement? I couldn't find any evidence of this.

It would be nice if you could give a reference to our literature.

They simply don't say the things they said thirty years ago.  They leave it to individuals to do their own careful research.  

From the bible we do know how Jehovah feels about animals.  When giving the Israelites laws, God taught them proper care of animals. He required them to return a stray animal to its owner and to help animals in distress. (Exodus 23:4, 5) Animals were to benefit from a Sabbath rest, just like humans. (Exodus 23:12) There were laws governing the proper treatment of farm animals. (Deuteronomy 22:10; 25:4) Obviously, animals were to be cared for and guarded, not exploited.

 g98 11/8 26-27

[AH173]

2 hours ago, Naturale said:

They simply don't say the things they said thirty years ago.  They leave it to individuals to do their own careful research.  

From the bible we do know how Jehovah feels about animals.  When giving the Israelites laws, God taught them proper care of animals. He required them to return a stray animal to its owner and to help animals in distress. (Exodus 23:4, 5) Animals were to benefit from a Sabbath rest, just like humans. (Exodus 23:12) There were laws governing the proper treatment of farm animals. (Deuteronomy 22:10; 25:4) Obviously, animals were to be cared for and guarded, not exploited.

 g98 11/8 26-27

Nice scriptures and Awake 98 quotation.

But a seeming misapplication to the point at hand. If you want to know if a matter is the current position of the FDS, then please feel free to speak to your local body of elders and/or write your local branch --you should recieve an answer in about 2-3 weeks like I did on another matter and another topic. And let the matter rest and wait on Jehovah.

 

Quote

*** w96 7/15 pp. 16-17 Maintain Unity in These Last Days ***
Cling to the Truth

6 As part of Jehovah’s family of worshipers, we maintain unity because all of us are “taught by Jehovah” and hold firmly to his revealed truth. (John 6:45; Psalm 43:3) Since our teachings are based on God’s Word, all of us speak in agreement. We gladly accept the spiritual food made available by Jehovah through “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47) Such uniform teaching assists us to maintain our unity worldwide.

7 What if we individually have difficulty understanding or accepting a certain point? We should pray for wisdom and undertake research in the Scriptures and Christian publications. (Proverbs 2:4, 5; James 1:5-8) Discussion with an elder may help. If the point still cannot be understood, it may be best to let the matter rest. Perhaps more information on the subject will be published, and then our understanding will be broadened. It would be wrong, however, to try to convince others in the congregation to accept our own divergent opinion. This would be sowing discord, not working to preserve unity. How much better it is to “go on walking in the truth” and encourage others to do so!—3 John 4.

8 In the first century, Paul said: “At present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face. At present I know partially, but then I shall know accurately even as I am accurately known.” (1 Corinthians 13:12) Although the early Christians did not see all the details, they remained unified. We now have a much clearer understanding of Jehovah’s purpose and his Word of truth. Let us therefore be grateful for the truth we have received through the ‘faithful slave.’ And let us be thankful that Jehovah has led us by means of his organization. While we have not always had the same degree of knowledge, we have not been starving or thirsting spiritually. Instead, our Shepherd, Jehovah, has kept us unified and has taken good care of us.—Psalm 23:1-3.
 

Another nice article to consider also.

Quote

*** w11 10/15 p. 32 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
What should I do when I have a question about something I read in the Bible or when I need advice about a personal problem?
 

Until then what the FDS has said on a particular matter is what it is from my 35 year experience.

Edited December 28, 2020 by AH173
update

[Naturale]

19 minutes ago, AH173 said:

Nice scriptures and Awake 98 quotation.

But a seeming misapplication to the point at hand. If you want to know if a matter is the current position of the FDS, then please feel free to speak to your local body of elders and/or write your local branch --you should recieve an answer in about 2-3 weeks like I did on another matter and another topic. And let the matter rest and wait on Jehovah.

 

Until then what the FDS has said on a particular matter is what it is from my 35 year experience.

Many things are personal decisions.  We each have our own conscience, our own values.  Each individual makes a personal decision regarding whether to accept products, drugs or whatever that are tested on animals.  The same goes for genetic engineering since it goes beyond certain boundaries.  Each person must use the bible as a foundation for ethical decision-making.  It is also vital to research a subject and find out all the facts available in order to make well informed decisions.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Naturale

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, AH173 said:

It would be wrong, however, to try to convince others in the congregation to accept our own divergent opinion. This would be sowing discord, not working to preserve unity. How much better it is to “go on walking in the truth” and encourage others to do so!—3 John 4.

Doesn't this go both ways, though?  When someone posts on here their objection to some vaccine or some form of treatment or their ethical dilemma over animal testing, why is there an immediate reaction to counter the opinion posted?  Why can't we just let the opinion go?  It seems like the point/counterpoint is what leads to the round and round discussions or arguments. 

 

Someone shares a medical opinion we disagree with.  Do we try to convince them they are wrong and should come around to our way of thinking?

 

3 hours ago, Naturale said:

Many things are personal decisions.  We each have our own conscience, our own values.  Each individual makes a personal decision regarding whether to accept products, drugs or whatever that are tested on animals.  The same goes for genetic engineering since it goes beyond certain boundaries.  Each person must use the bible as a foundation for ethical decision-making.  It is also vital to research a subject and find out all the facts available in order to make well informed decisions.

Why do some constantly post any and all negative information they find about vaccines or animal testing?  It's as if there is a crusade to constantly point out the potential ethical and moral dilemmas, as well as all the disaster stories centered around vaccines.  It's reached a point where we had to split off separate topics - one for pro vaccine discussion and another for alternative treatment vaccine discussions.  We posted warnings in each topic to allow everyone to express their opinion without condemnation or argument.

 

It's like each opposing view cannot let the other live and let live.  Vaccines are here to stay and the majority of people on this website accept vaccines as sound medical treatment.  There is no need to constantly and almost "knee-jerk reaction" post a constant barrage or reminder of every dark side effect, ethical scary story, or fear mongering pot stirring article that vilifies a medical stand the majority of people have taken.

[hatcheckgirl]

6 hours ago, Naturale said:

They don't say these things now though.

 

6 hours ago, Naturale said:

They simply don't say the things they said thirty years ago.  They leave it to individuals to do their own careful research.  

From the bible we do know how Jehovah feels about animals.  When giving the Israelites laws, God taught them proper care of animals. He required them to return a stray animal to its owner and to help animals in distress. (Exodus 23:4, 5) Animals were to benefit from a Sabbath rest, just like humans. (Exodus 23:12) There were laws governing the proper treatment of farm animals. (Deuteronomy 22:10; 25:4) Obviously, animals were to be cared for and guarded, not exploited.

 g98 11/8 26-27

But just how are vaccines actually developed so that they can be used for humans? Here’s one of many sources answering that:

 

”Each vaccine under development must first undergo screenings and evaluations to determine which antigen should be used to invoke an immune response. This preclinical phase is done without testing on humans. An experimental vaccine is first tested in animals to evaluate its safety and potential to prevent disease.”

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/how-are-vaccines-developed
 

If you think this is unethical, you are entitled to your opinion. Until the world doesn’t need medicines and vaccines, we all have little choice but to use medical intervention that unfortunately was developed on animals before it was tested on humans.  That is just a fact of living in this world. And the article quoted by FDS is agreeing with this, it’s not a superseded thought.

 

Otherwise, if vaccines were against Bible principles it would not have been a conscience matter. All drugs have to be tested on animals before humans.  I appreciate your sensitivity for the treatment of lab animals, but I can assure you no one wants to endorse animal cruelty.  It’s not right to slant this discussion to imply taking any vaccine would be against what Jehovah requires because of animal testing. One day we won’t have to guilt others with this line of reasoning because then we won’t need medications and vaccines - “no one will say: ‘I am sick’”.

 

[trottigy]

The slave does seem to have a pretty balanced view of "animal testing". A quick search of that will bring up an article:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101990483

 

Quote

“If animals may be used as food to sustain people’s lives,” wrote the Awake! magazine of June 22, 1980, “it seems reasonable to use them in medical experiments to save lives. However, this is no license for unrestricted and often valueless, repetitious experiments involving intense suffering.” Certainly, from the Biblical viewpoint, heartless cruelty to animals cannot be justified.—Exodus 23:4, 5, 12; Deuteronomy 25:4; Proverbs 12:10.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by trottigy

[Lee49]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-55473196/page/2

Spain to set up register of people who refuse jab

 

 Spain will set up a register of people who refuse to be vaccinated against coronavirus and share it with other European Union nations, its health minister has said.

Salvador Illa said the list would not be made accessible to the public or to employers.

He said the way to defeat the virus was "to vaccinate all of us - the more the better".

Spain has been one of the countries in Europe worst affected by the virus and is currently rolling out the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

Mr Illa emphasised that vaccination would not be mandatory and that the register would be created with the "utmost respect for data protection".

[M.J.]

1 hour ago, Lee49 said:

Salvador Illa said the list would not be made accessible to the public or to employers.

If they are not going to use it, what's the point of having it?

[Dustparticle]

1 hour ago, Lee49 said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-55473196/page/2

Spain to set up register of people who refuse jab

 

 Spain will set up a register of people who refuse to be vaccinated against coronavirus and share it with other European Union nations, its health minister has said.

Salvador Illa said the list would not be made accessible to the public or to employers.

He said the way to defeat the virus was "to vaccinate all of us - the more the better".

Spain has been one of the countries in Europe worst affected by the virus and is currently rolling out the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

Mr Illa emphasised that vaccination would not be mandatory and that the register would be created with the "utmost respect for data protection".

On a worldwide scale, I see this be as  an oxymoron. because not all will take the shot. If so, then how we can see the doors open at the halls and assemblies, etc. when some will walk in with the potential virus.?

[Lee49]

Those that get the shot also get this tattooed on their forehead!

[Qapla]

1 hour ago, M.J. said:

If they are not going to use it, what's the point of having it?

 

Border crossings, perhaps ...

[Tortuga]

49 minutes ago, Lee49 said:

Those that get the shot also get this tattooed on their forehead!

The mark of the beast..😱

 

😂🤣

[kejedo]

1 hour ago, Lee49 said:

Those that get the shot also get this tattooed on their forehead!

           Forehead, huh? At least it's not the letter 'A,' and I can usually rock bangs.

[Tortuga]

On 12/26/2020 at 5:51 PM, runner92 said:

I wish in the next letter they would make this clear.

The brothers have a list that is kept updated and sent to the congregations. Here is the current list.

 

[Bob]

Some news:

 

I just took the first of two Moderna shots. So they have me sitting in a 15 minutes monitoring area just in case.

 

Didnt hurt. A small pinch. I’m sure side-effects will kick on the next day or so.