Covid-19 Vaccine Research, Development, Ingredients and Reactions

[Sofia]

4 hours ago, trottigy said:

Odd, I didn't notice Israel on the list at all. Did I miss it?

Israel was only propaganda 😕😕 

In fact they had vaccinated about 90% OLD AGED.

Not the entire population.

This kind of propaganda misleads people to wrong conclusions.

source: our world in data 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Sofia

[WilliamChew]

Looks like vaccine mandates has some effect on motivating vaccination. In Singapore, about 10% stepped for vaccination to bring the fully vaccinated rate to 81% when the unvaccinated couldn't eat in air conditioned restaurants anymore. Maybe the increase in cases due to the delta variant helped too.

 

This CNN article talks about France's vaccine mandate.

 

"Clearly, Emmanuel Macron took a risk," said Bruno Cautres, a political analyst at the Center for Political Research at Sciences Po in Paris.

 

"He took a risk to say I will make the life of the non-vaccinated very difficult, which is a very, very, very dangerous statement for an executive."

 

Today, France's Covid-19 vaccination rate is among the highest in the world, with 73% of people having received at least one shot, according to Our World in Data.

 

[New World Explorer]

Just now, WilliamChew said:

Looks like vaccine mandates has some effect on motivating vaccination. In Singapore, about 10% stepped for vaccination to bring the fully vaccinated rate to 81% when the unvaccinated couldn't eat in air conditioned restaurants anymore. Maybe the increase in cases due to the delta variant helped too.

Australia is more or less following the footsteps of Singapore, soon we are going to have economy opening up for vaccinated people, and limits imposed on unvaccinated. 

 

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews has sent a clear message as to what the future of the economy looks like in the state, saying proof of double vaccination will now be the price of entry."We're going to move to a situation where, to protect the health system, we are going to lock out people who are not vaccinated and can be," Mr Andrews said.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-06/daniel-andrews-vaccine-passport-double-vaccinated/100435606

[pnutts]

In the province of Ontario a passport system starts rolling out on the 22nd after being pressured for weeks. Full rollout for Oct 22nd with QR code and digital, and just this evening Alberta premier bowed to the pressure to introduce a passport system too, since Alberta has one of the highest rates of infection in the country.

Ontario has more population than the 3 western provinces combined.

[hatcheckgirl]

The Australian state of Victoria, of which Melbourne is the capital, is still increasing exponentially in cases (they are yet to peak), but at the same time vaccination rates are quite high. So the hospitalisation and death rates are staying consistent and not rising in the same way.

 

“There were 1,838 infections reported on Friday and five deaths.

The chief health officer said rising vaccination levels were ensuring the rate of people being hospitalised or placed into intensive care was not growing as quickly as the daily case numbers.“ https://www.sbs.com.au/news/victoria-records-1-965-new-local-covid-19-cases-and-five-deaths-as-mildura-enters-lockdown/10cb6092-c28e-437a-98b8-7e41d0da8d62

 

Vaccinations work? Sydney bears the same pattern. Cases peaked last week and have been dropping quickly as the population passed 70% fully vaccinated.

 

One thing though, these two states are still in lockdown. On Monday, restrictions will be somewhat lifted in Sydney, and that will be interesting to see how vaccination is really affecting the spread of covid when people are mingling again. Masks have been mostly dropped as well, which I feel is not helpful. But we'll see.

 

All in Australia are watching what will happen from Monday in Sydney.

[Nirex]

New study out, saying what a lot have known already, but it confuses me.https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people

 

Quote

A new study from the University of California, Davis, Genome Center and UC San Francisco shows no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people who tested positive for the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2. It also found no significant difference between infected people with or without symptoms.

Quote

When they analyzed the data, the researchers found wide variations in viral load within both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, but not between them. There was no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated, or between asymptomatic and symptomatic groups.

Quote

Although vaccinated people with a breakthrough infection are much less likely to become severely ill than unvaccinated, the new study shows that they can be carrying similar amounts of virus and could potentially spread the virus to other people. This study did not directly address how easily vaccinated people can get infected with SARS-CoV-2, or how readily someone with a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus.

“Our study does not provide information on infectiousness,” Michelmore said. “Transmission will be influenced by several factors, not just vaccination status and viral load.”

Like, why the mandates then? I understand why push the vaccination, so people don't get severely sick or die, that's out of concern. But why go to the point of an executive order, force federal, contractors and try to make large jobs force it, if in the end both vaccinated and unvaccinated get and spread it the same? It's not protecting workers anymore than if they didn't have it, just maybe ensuring they don't die.

 

But if it's to ensure they don't die and thus lose that worker, they're losing it anyway by having them choose between the shot and their job.

 

It's this stuff that I'm confused about to the point of distrust.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Nirex

[carlos]

34 minutes ago, Nirex said:

Like, why the mandates then? I understand why push the vaccination, so people don't get severely sick or die, that's out of concern. But why go to the point of an executive order, force federal, contractors and try to make large jobs force it, if in the end both vaccinated and unvaccinated get and spread it the same? It's not protecting workers anymore than if they didn't have it, just maybe ensuring they don't die.

I am not following your logic, Regina. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can spread the virus to others. But while the unvaccinated will get sick, maybe very sick and even die, those vaccinated will not have any symptoms or only mild ones. Workers who get a vaccine won't get very sick or die. What other protection could they offer?

 

Think of what you are saying. It's like arguing that a seatbelt is useless because people have accidents despite wearing it. Well, they have accidents, but instead of dying or being terribly hurt they only have some broken bone.

 

Even if we accept the idea that companies don't care if their workers die (which is not necessarily true), what companies don't want at all is to have their workers on sick leave for weeks or months, maybe to end up with some long term physical damages.

 

 

[Nirex]

Sorry, I'm not saying the vaccination in of itself is useless.

 

What I'm saying is why MANDATE, as in force people, give them an ultimatum to lose their job if they don't get it?

 

The study shows that both vaccinated and unvaccinated have the same viral load and can spread it. So even if they mandate it, and get to the point of only having vaccinated workers, people still get covid.

 

The only thing forcing people to do get it does is make sure they don't get severely sick or die, but going by companies that don't care about their workers, not all, but let's say the big ones, what's the point of literally giving an ultimatum if it doesn't stop people from getting sick? Suggest it, encourage it, yes. What I don't understand is forcing it to people that don't want it given that it doesn't change what happens on the job.

[carlos]

32 minutes ago, Nirex said:

The study shows that both vaccinated and unvaccinated have the same viral load and can spread it. So even if they mandate it, and get to the point of only having vaccinated workers, people still get covid.

People will still get covid unless they are vaccinated. Infectious diseases disappear when most of the population are immunized. Smallpox, measles, polio, they used to kill millions every year, now they are forgotten after most of the population received a vaccine.

 

It would have been easier if people had taken the vaccine voluntarily, which is the most logical approach anyway. There is a virus killing people and there is a vaccine that protects you from the virus. But since everything is now politics and this choice which should have been a no brainer became a political thing in the US, American population will never reach that immunization threshold. So the government and companies are now forcing it or making life difficult for the unvaccinated. The are trying to make the virus disappear for good.

[Shawnster]

16 minutes ago, Nirex said:

What I'm saying is why MANDATE, as in force people, give them an ultimatum to lose their job if they don't get it?

 

The government needs to do something.  Again, going back to Carlos' seatbelt illustration - why mandate seat belt use?  Actually, ultimately, the ultimatums about employment are designed to encourage people to get vaccinated.  With as much political opposition to vaccinations in the United States, the government's options are limited.  A government's ability to rule is limited to either the carrot or the stick.  The carrots haven't worked, so all that is left is the stick.

 

Now, as for the other aspect of your question...

 

1 hour ago, Nirex said:

But why go to the point of an executive order, force federal, contractors and try to make large jobs force it, if in the end both vaccinated and unvaccinated get and spread it the same? It's not protecting workers anymore than if they didn't have it, just maybe ensuring they don't die.

 If I understand you correctly, I think you might be missing a point.  I apologize if this sounds like I'm mansplaining or talking to you like you're 5.  I can't think of a better way to approach this.

 

Viral load = the amount of the virus an infected person carries.

 

So, on the average, an infected vaccinated individual carries the same amount of coronavirus as an infected unvaccinated person.  

 

Now, here is the point I believe you are overlooking.  There are still more unvaccinated individuals contracting Covid than there are vaccinated persons who contract Covid.  So, while the amount of viral load is the same regardless whether a person is vaccinated or not, the key is that wearing a mask, social distancing, hand washing, and getting vaccinated does make it less likely that an individual will become infected.  Is it 100% protection?  No.  Nothing in this world offers 100% protection.

 

The goal for mask mandates, social distancing, hand washing, and vaccination is to reduce the spread of Coronavirus.  The goal is to limit the amount of people infected.  That number will never be 0 in this system of things.  However, if the numbers drop to around the same numbers reported each year for, say, influenza infections, then society could completely return to normal and there would no longer be any need for masks or social distancing.  Perhaps even vaccination mandates would end and the Covid vaccine would be viewed in the same category as the MMR vaccine, TDAP vaccine, or even the annual flu shot.  But, until then, something needs done to help continue to push infection numbers down.

[Nirex]

The point I'm trying to make might be better with scenarios... I'm not saying to not mask or social distance, just the vaccination.

 

Let's say we have Bob. Who either doesn't trust the vaccine, is scared of it, or just doesn't want it because immunity or something of the sort.

 

Scenario One: Bob isn't vaccinated. Sally who is either vaccinated or not vaccinated since she can still catch it either way, comes to work with covid because she doesn't know she has it. Bob gets it.Bob gets severely sick and maybe dies because he was unvaccinated. Job loses a worker.

 

Scenario Two:  Bob isn't vaccinated but is being forced by the mandate to get vaccinated or lose his job. Bob refuses. Job loses a worker.

 

Scenario Three: Bob isn't vaccinated, same thing as Scenario One happens, but Bob doesn't get severely sick, even being unvaccinated. Job doesn't lose a worker.

 

Scenario Four: Bob isn't vaccinated but gets the ultimatum to lose job or get it. Bob gets it, he turns into one of the rare cases that had a complication, Job loses a worker.

 

In Scenario 1, 2, and 4, the job loses a worker.  Through death, walking out, or death/complications again. 

Scenario 3, has a chance of death, but if it doesn't happen, the job doesn't lose a worker.

 

So wouldn't the no mandates, scenario 3 be the better risk? All scenarios are assuming Bob is still smart and adheres to masks and social distancing, just doesn't want the vaccine.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Nirex

[carlos]

15 minutes ago, Nirex said:

So wouldn't the no mandates, scenario 3 be the better risk? All scenarios are assuming Bob is still smart and adheres to masks and social distancing, just doesn't want the vaccine.

I don't know the way things work in the US. In Spain, if your worker is sick, you still have to pay them until they recover. If that's the case in the US too, the company has a strong motivation to have all its workers vaccinated. If one died from a complication with the vaccine (which is extremely unlikely since it's one case in millions) they can always hire another worker. But if their workers get sick they will have to pay people who are not producing anything.

 

Even if things work differently in the US, from a government viewpoint it makes perfect sense to force people to get vaccinated. Most people who die of covid do not die of the disease but due to lack of room, staff or breathing devices in hospital. I mean, if the hospital ICU has 30 beds and 10 them are occupied with very sick covid patients, they can all be treated and most will survive. But if there are 500 very sick patients it won't be possible to treat them all with 30 beds and hundreds of them will die. The most people get the vaccine, the fewer very sick patients will be at ICU, and the more people will be working and paying taxes.

[Nirex]

22 minutes ago, carlos said:

I don't know the way things work in the US. In Spain, if your worker is sick, you still have to pay them until they recover. If that's the case in the US too, the company has a strong motivation to have all its workers vaccinated. If one died from a complication with the vaccine (which is extremely unlikely since it's one case in millions) they can always hire another worker. But if their workers get sick they will have to pay people who are not producing anything.

 

Even if things work differently in the US, from a government viewpoint it makes perfect sense to force people to get vaccinated. Most people who die of covid do not die of the disease but due to lack of room, staff or breathing devices in hospital. I mean, if the hospital ICU has 30 beds and 10 them are occupied with very sick covid patients, they can all be treated and most will survive. But if there are 500 very sick patients it won't be possible to treat them all with 30 beds and hundreds of them will die. The most people get the vaccine, the fewer very sick patients will be at ICU, and the more people will be working and paying taxes.

Money, that's right. Sick leave. That's what I was missing. Thanks. What I was trying to do was see it as a company risk analysis view, but the risk analysis wasn't clicking for the mandates with the study.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Nirex

[rocket]

3 hours ago, carlos said:

I don't know the way things work in the US. In Spain, if your worker is sick, you still have to pay them until they recover. If that's the case in the US too, the company has a strong motivation to have all its workers vaccinated. If one died from a complication with the vaccine (which is extremely unlikely since it's one case in millions) they can always hire another worker. But if their workers get sick they will have to pay people who are not producing anything.

 

Even if things work differently in the US, from a government viewpoint it makes perfect sense to force people to get vaccinated. Most people who die of covid do not die of the disease but due to lack of room, staff or breathing devices in hospital. I mean, if the hospital ICU has 30 beds and 10 them are occupied with very sick covid patients, they can all be treated and most will survive. But if there are 500 very sick patients it won't be possible to treat them all with 30 beds and hundreds of them will die. The most people get the vaccine, the fewer very sick patients will be at ICU, and the more people will be working and paying taxes.

In the US, besides government mandates,  the medical insurance is private companies.  The incentive for employers to have it's workers vaccinated is the rising cost of employer paid health insurance.  The more claims the higher the insurance cost to the employer.  My son works for Starbucks distribution center.  If they have Covid symptoms they have to stay home for 10 days or get tested.  If they have Covid they get paid leave, if not they get no pay. 

[pnutts]

Listen Very Very carefully to bro. Lett in governing body 2021 #8.Print out the transcript, if need be.

 

Look at the numbers concerning deaths just the brothers from the US alone since June - Compiled by Brothers thus we should trust them!

This virus is Deadly!

Yes you can still get it if fully vaccinated, but much less likely too. We are a small congregation and we have had brothers sick with it and at least one- a sister died.

my 1/2 cent worth.

Edited October 14, 2021 by pnutts

[rolypoly]

Can somebody help me? I can't read through this whole forum. I've tried searching. I've been googling. I've looked through all of the literature that my service overseer has sent me about covid and I just can't find an answer and I'm tired.

 

Is the antibody infusion, regeneron acceptable for witnesses? I'm just worried it might be made from blood or something I know it comes from other people. I think I read something about plasma. Does anyone know? My wife had the infusion yesterday but she's an unbeliever, and I just showed positive this morning so I'm weighing my options. I feel fine and I have been vaccinated.

 

Thanks

[Brother_Bliss]

1 hour ago, rolypoly said:

 

Is the antibody infusion, regeneron acceptable for witnesses? I'm just worried it might be made from blood or something I know it comes from other people. I think I read something about plasma.

Regeneron is not a convalescent plasma therapy. Regeneron's antibodies are made in a laboratory, so they're expressed in some mammalian cell line in an incubator. Then it gets grown up and then purified out of the cells there. 

 

Almost all medical options are a conscience matter. Based on this brief internet search, I would have no problem taking it.

[Shawnster]

Unless the antibody infusion contains blood, then the procedure is a conscience matter. 

 

So, the basic question is does this antibody infusion contain red cells, white cells, blood plasma, or platelets?   

 

 

[rolypoly]

15 minutes ago, Shawnster said:

Unless the antibody infusion contains blood, then the procedure is a conscience matter. 

 

So, the basic question is does this antibody infusion contain red cells, white cells, blood plasma, or platelets?   

 

 

I don't know if it contains those things that's what I'm worried about. I seem to remember reading something about plasma but I've read so much that I'm not sure. I just asked my dad and he says from what he understands it's totally synthetic which would be okay. Just want to make sure before I accept it. I read my wife's literature and the other thing that concerns me is that it's basically experimental and there's no guarantees and they don't know if there will be any ill effects sooner or later.

I'm half tempted just to ride it out. I do have asthma and catch pneumonia and all that pretty easy. But I have a feeling I'm not going to get sick. I feel fine right now. My wife doesn't feel that bad but she's healthier than an ox (but not as big. Have to throw that disclaimer in there).

 

[trottigy]

On 10/21/2021 at 3:18 PM, rolypoly said:

I don't know if it contains those things that's what I'm worried about. I seem to remember reading something about plasma but I've read so much that I'm not sure. I just asked my dad and he says from what he understands it's totally synthetic which would be okay. Just want to make sure before I accept it. I read my wife's literature and the other thing that concerns me is that it's basically experimental and there's no guarantees and they don't know if there will be any ill effects sooner or later.

I'm half tempted just to ride it out. I do have asthma and catch pneumonia and all that pretty easy. But I have a feeling I'm not going to get sick. I feel fine right now. My wife doesn't feel that bad but she's healthier than an ox (but not as big. Have to throw that disclaimer in there).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoclonal_antibody

 

That treatment (as far as I can tell) does use a blood fraction that comes from plasma.

 

Quote

Much of the work behind production of monoclonal antibodies is rooted in the production of hybridomas, which involves identifying antigen-specific plasma/plasmablast cells (ASPC) that produce antibodies specific to an antigen of interest and fusing these cells with myeloma cells.^[6]

They mass replicate the cell that they want and then harvest the antibodies from the replicated cells. If you are someone who refuses all fractions - you'll likely want to stay away from this, BUT if you are a Christian who doesn't have an issue with most fractions - you shouldn't have an issue with this one.

 

I'd like to avoid the "ok with fractions vs NOT ok with fractions" discussion here - as we have several of those topics on the forum already. Basically, that is a personal decions based on your Bible trained conscience.

[mramirez720]

On 10/21/2021 at 3:05 PM, rolypoly said:

Can somebody help me? I can't read through this whole forum. I've tried searching. I've been googling. I've looked through all of the literature that my service overseer has sent me about covid and I just can't find an answer and I'm tired.

 

Is the antibody infusion, regeneron acceptable for witnesses? I'm just worried it might be made from blood or something I know it comes from other people. I think I read something about plasma. Does anyone know? My wife had the infusion yesterday but she's an unbeliever, and I just showed positive this morning so I'm weighing my options. I feel fine and I have been vaccinated.

 

Thanks

I don't know the answer brother, but I just asked the same question in my service group this morning. Some coworkers that refused the vaccine got the infusion after they got Covid because they were feeling so sick. I was wondering how they determined that the vaccine was unsafe, but the infusion wasn't. I am wondering if we will hear an update by the GB in reference to this. My coworkers felt that the infusions helped their recovery, but they are not Witnesses.

[vern]

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/51512

 

So.... You got to look up the medical speak words.... And the weird letter number names

..

 But more then likely it will goto odd animal and or cancer cells... The immortal cells usually is cancer cells.   They can.t filter out the dna. Now we eat dna when we eat animal.foods.... So does by passing digestion and sending it into your blood pose a risk?   Some say yes...

 

Personally the idea of taking a product propogated with diploid cells is not very appealing.

[vern]

One thing to know.... I.ve researching this... And one statistic was that the most common side effect with this monoclonal antibody is upper respertory infection.  That can.t mix well with covid 19.... And the percentage was 39%.... Over all they get 30% infection side effects.....

 

 

I.m not sure i would understand why doctor would presvribe this when its a chemo therapy targetted at a specific cancer cell....

 

And its made with both human and animal cells.  Not found the human source yet.... But animal so far is rat and mouse. And the part is spleen.

[Ms. Piffle]

On 10/21/2021 at 3:05 PM, rolypoly said:

Can somebody help me? I can't read through this whole forum. I've tried searching. I've been googling. I've looked through all of the literature that my service overseer has sent me about covid and I just can't find an answer and I'm tired.

 

Is the antibody infusion, regeneron acceptable for witnesses? I'm just worried it might be made from blood or something I know it comes from other people. I think I read something about plasma. Does anyone know? My wife had the infusion yesterday but she's an unbeliever, and I just showed positive this morning so I'm weighing my options. I feel fine and I have been vaccinated.

 

Thanks

Plasma & Monoclonal Antibody Treatments / FAQs

 

What antibody treatments exist?

You will hear about antibodies is relation to the following treatments:

• Monoclonal antibody treatments

• Direct transfusion with COVID convalescent plasma (CCP)

• Hyperimmune globulin (HIG)

What are monoclonal antibodies (mAbs)?

Monoclonal antibodies (mAbs) are antibodies that are made in laboratories and help the body fight specific diseases.

https://www.survivorcorps.com/plasma-mabs-faqs

 

*** My understanding is the antibodies are not derived from blood.  Obviously the convalescent plasma is. I hope this website answers your question and gives you peace of mind in whatever decision you make.  And of course, talk it over with Jehovah first.

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Polka Dot

[vern]

Origin and Preclinical Analysis

Ofatumumab was generated in transgenic mice using the following protocol: Transgenic mice were immunized with human CD20 transfected cells using a prime-boost strategy. Hybridoma that secreted human IgG1 anti-CD20 antibodies were extracted from successfully immunized mice.^13,14 Using genetic engineering techniques, heavy and light chain genes from one human anti- CD20 cell line, 2F2, were transfected into a murine myeloma cell line (NS/O) for production of ofatumumab.

 

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2726602/