Jehovah’s Witnesses in Belgium fined for "Disfellowshipping Policy"

[Rendrocxof]

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2021/03/16/jehova-getuigen/

Edited March 18, 2021 by Shawnster

[Sepie93]

https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/160238/jehovahs-witnesses-given-e12000-fine-for-incitement-to-hatred-against-ex-members-ghent-correctional-court-unia-shunning-policy/
 
In Belgium, a court has fined the organization €96000,- for inciting discrimination, hatred and violence, because how we treat former members.
 
Yet another courtcase to bring before higher courts..
 
(the article says €12000, but I read in Dutch articles that it's €12000 for each "victim". So that would make it €96000).
 
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[Dustparticle]

They need to appeal this because of religious discrimination.

[Tortuga]

Today's text is very appropriate.

[Dages]

43 minutes ago, Sepie93 said:

Yet another courtcase to bring before higher courts..

Yep. I hope this will get cancelled.

 

[comtemplate]

Very interesting 🤔 we will see what comes out of this. It seems to me to be the climate for religious attacks in general. As well as attacks on journalists. I’m seeing more in the news more often. 

[BLEmom]

Good grief!  Not to trivialize but....

You become a member knowing the rules just like being a member of any “club” per se.

you don’t follow the rules then you face the consequences of those same club rules you chose to be a part of in the first place.  
 

[Qapla]

When will they decide that people who do not buy a ticket to a sporting event or concert are being discriminated against when they are refused admission ...

[On the huh]

These cases are not about removing members, but how former members are treated, i.e. we won't associated with them in social settings.  Of course everyone has free will to associated with whoever they want.  Disfellowshipped ones want their cake and eat it.

[Bob]

3 hours ago, On the huh said:

These cases are not about removing members, but how former members are treated, i.e. we won't associated with them in social settings.  Of course everyone has free will to associated with whoever they want.  Disfellowshipped ones want their cake and eat it.

Yet, former members aren't "treated" any negative way. They are simply ignored as you say. And this case is ripe for appeal as they even said it was wrong for Witnesses to ignore df'd family members inside the privacy of their own homes. What a joke.

 

The natural slippery slope appeals question is simple: "Do courts have the jurisdiction to compel private citizens to associate with other private citizens on their own private property or in public?". I don't know if Belgium supports private citizenship like in the US, but this is clear government overreach. 

 

If a case like this is allowed to stand, imagine the consequences. If you have a gathering and don't invite a certain family member but you invite the rest, they would be allowed to sue you because refusing to associate with them is "inciting hatred and discrimination" because you invited most of the family but not all. You cannot exclude under the precedent set by this God awful ruling.

 

Yeah...obviously the religious bigots in Belgium are coming after us. Too bad they are sitting on the court. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Bob

[hatcheckgirl]

Yes, but it is Jehovah they are going against. Who wants to be against him? 😳😳

But until He acts at Armaggedon to clear his name and his right way of doing things, we his servants are going to cop flack from this twisted system. 
 

I know, I’m shaking my head at the nerve of this self-righteous government decision. But Jehovah will be the one to sort it out. Our Yeartext is really becoming clear how appropriate it is.

[Omoyeme]

This reminds me of the Walls case in Calgary back in 2017 that involved the Supreme Court of Canada.  As in that development, I pray that sound reasoning prevails in this one also. 

[Jimi-L]

This is unacceptable. We cannot change Jehovah's will, and his will in this matter is clear. That's it. Let’s hope the court ends up with a similar solution as in Canada.

[mdj]

w88 15 april pg 30:  similar case in 1987 up to the United States Supreme Court.
This article gives a clear explanation of our Biblical standpoint. 

[Jimi-L]

one thing I find strange:

 From article

Quote

We act, for example, for a man whose wife is still a member, and he is ignored in his own home

I understand that it does not go like this. quote from jw.org

 

Quote

What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.

 

 

[Bob]

3 hours ago, Jimi-L said:

one thing I find strange:

 From article

I understand that it does not go like this. quote from jw.org

 

 

Belgium doesn’t care about the facts. They merely wanted to get the organization.

 

Furthermore, the apostates who brought the case thinks that they can merely take this to the ECHR (they said they want to go to the European Courts) and try to get our practice banned. 

 

But Europe has also been ruling in our favor too:

 

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/united-kingdom/England-Upholds-Rights-Regarding-Religious-Affiliation/

 

[Sepie93]

Bitter Winter, an Human Rights organization, published the first of an 3 parts article about the decision.

Jehovah’s Witnesses Fined in Ghent for Their “Ostracism”: A Wrong Decision.

https://bitterwinter.org/jehovahs-witnesses-fined-in-ghent-for-their-ostracism-a-wrong-decision/

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[Jimi-L]

2 Timothy 4: 3  fits this perfectly. Clearly shows the innermost thoughts of apostates.

" For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching,+ but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; "

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Jimi-L

[Semer]

I suppose the brothers will appeal, we will win, and the media will ignore the  final verdict, as usual.

But this case seems to confirm the trend we can see in Western society in the last 10 years or so.

The wave of tolerance and respect that came up among institutions after the horrors of WW2 seems to be waning.

Some institutions feel more and more entitled to impose their "single thought". They even feel entitled to interfere in our worship by hauling in our two witness rule, or what the Bible commands about the sanctity of  blood or disfellowshipping.

In this case, internal religious discipline, based on the Bible and known and accepted by all members, is now religious discrimination.

How about the baseless accusation in Belgium against a whole religious group of covering up paedophiles? That is not religious discrimination? That is not incitement to hatred?

This kind of things reminds me of how easily the institutions of this world can turn against us. The attack of Gog used to be harder to imagine.

In any case, we have to follow 1 Timothy 2:1, 2:

Quote

"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, concerning kings and all those who are in high positions, so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness."

And we'll have to be thankful when they rule in our favour.

[Sepie93]

I think we are here facing a whole new idea of "tolerance". Western society wants to be tolerant towards everything. And any (religious) institution what says: whoa, this is our (moral) border, is considered intolerant and needs to be handled accordingly..
Its weird thinking but what can we expect of Satan's world. Whats good today, is bad tomorrow and visa versa.

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[Dages]

Good is bad and bad is good.

And don't you dare say otherwise you bigot !

 

How sad this world is... and it is going to be worse... when, in Paradise, we will be asked about the last days, by Moses, or Daniel, how appalled they will be.  

 

[Thesauron]

They cannot ban what God himself has instituted. You are fighting against God, and that never works out well.

[Thomas Walker]

Jehovah’s Witnesses given €12,000 fine for incitement to hatred against ex-members

 

 

[Tia]

Wow...the last sentence -  coming in cities and states near you...

 

 

“This is just the start,” former Jehovah’s Witnesses member Patrick Haeck told Het Nieuwsblad.

“We are going to the European Court. This has to stop everywhere.”

[Hotteok]

Seems like a start of something