GB Update #4

[jwhess]

World  health sources place the average deaths per covid-19 infections between 5-10 percent.  The differences are based on when in the year we choose the data and what country we are looking at. This is sometimes called "mortality rate".  The rate is going down as a general number in most countries because of the medical treatment available now compared to a year ago.

 

If we apply such general statistics in reverse to our brothers, based on 17,000 deaths, it would represent an average of  85,000 to 170000 brothers sickened by the disease in all the world.  This is just statistical data mining, there is no official report or statistics in our organization.

[Thesauron]

You right that we never know would got their shot or not. Mostly likely any member of GB who didn’t get their shot will not be stepping on an airplane in the future too.

That is true. Many countries will require some sort of proof of vaccination in the future.

[Naturale]

A person is simply required to provide a recent negative COVID-19 test result or documentation of recovery.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Naturale

[.Ivan.]

Sanderson noted that there have been more disasters around the world in the last 2 years than in previous years.  a very interesting observation.  there was an earthquake in my city like no other for 140 years.  the state's economy is bad, the whole eu is generally on its knees, and the world order is shaking because of the corona crisis.  no one knows what will happen tomorrow.

[DarinS]

On 5/21/2021 at 9:04 AM, Tortuga said:

I wonder how they did that during a lockdown.

Technically they are not on the same restrictions/lockdown as they were in the past

SFTS have also received some instructions changing the ‘lockdown/quarantine’

our April letter mentions “organizational’ restrictions remain the same, but does not indicate same for personal restrictions (mentions social and travel)

our CO says they can leave the property for ‘necessary’ tasks

our Assembly hall family have been getting together in small groups and have been told they can leave the AH grounds - but they still avoid social settings....ie they go to a park 

the Bethelite who gave our talk said they can gather in small groups - ie 6 folks at the BBQ

-he is also a nurse - so they have the expertise to deliver the vaccine - they just need the actual vaccine

(some vaccines have special handling instructions and temperatures)

 

Since this is an international group - we must remember that there are specific instructions per country/state

 

we did get clear instruction to still be cautious - and not think everything is great and resume old ‘normal’

unfortunately i see some young ones and older ones posting pictures at parties/bars/social events with hundreds of people

Edited May 23, 2021 by DarinS
Spelling

[Thesauron]

A person is simply required to provide a recent negative COVID-19 test result or documentation of recovery.

The EU has proposed a system, a “Digital Green Certificate,” that will allow for people who have been vaccinated, and hopefully, people who have received recent negative tests, or have recovered (within some time limit?), but countries are free to chose to accept only vaccinated people. Estonia’s QR code system, for example, falls within this category, I believe. In Israel, you can apply for a vaccination certificate, or proof of recovery certificate.

[...]

 

The brother suggested watching Bulletin N ° 9 , 2020 again. ❤️

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/2020-Governing-Body-Update-9/ 

 

[jayrtom]

On 5/21/2021 at 9:07 PM, JkentBZ said:

I think he meant many have been and that some have not.  Since it is a personal decision as he stated each individual is allowed to decide for themselves.  And if one is pro-vax or anti-vax they should keep that personal choice to themselves.  It does not need to be shared just as many other personal decisions are ours to make and shouldn't be up for debate.  I like to apply 1 Thess. 4:11 when discussing personal decisions. 

Like John mentioned bellow, it's notorious that it was mentioned the famous sentence. IMHO there are lots of brothers that talk bad about vaccines (extrapolating from jwtak) and so that sentence was more to stress that we as an organization don't have anything against vaccines. The way it was stated was to shift direction to taking vaccines. It is still a personal decision, but he talked positively on one way of the question. There is no doubt about that. If he wanted to stay absolutely neutral he would close the remark on "this is a personal decision". If he wanted to focus on not taking the vaccine he would say "many have chosen not to take the vaccine"

I believe the choice of words was deliberate.

But it's not the case that the GB is saying "take the vaccine", it's more like "don't follow the anti-vax propaganda"

On 5/21/2021 at 11:47 PM, Qapla said:

Since there is so much conjecture about the comment "many in our Bethel families have chosen to be vaccinated"... here is another way to look at it -  he made NO mention that some (or any) chose NOT to be vaccinated.

 

I guess we could read into that whatever we want.

 

I was told a few weeks back by someone in Bethel that more than 80% had already been vaccinated ... for what it is worth.

 

 

[Jothob]

On 5/21/2021 at 2:04 PM, Tortuga said:

I wonder how they did that during a lockdown.

Well the Bethelites in my congregation said they have been getting their vaccinations like the rest of us, by going to the vaccination sites or doctors office. They said the brothers would arrange for quite a few to go on the same day and then they would all self isolate for 14 days. 
That’s how they’ve done it here at the Britain branch. 

[runner92]

Maybe it's me, but I'm not understanding the percentage battle here. Even if we are taking the percentage of of the world, that still includes our brothers and sisters who have died because their deaths would be included. Of course, since we are only taking from a source of 8 million, the percentage for just us would be higher because our sample size is smaller. 

 

Also, not everyone has been able to just stay in the house. We aren't going door to door anymore, but many of us still have to work out of the home. Many still have to go get groceries.

 

On top of that, it's a sad reality, but not everyone has been following directions to isolate from others. It's unfortunate, but it's true. I know in my area, everyone hasn't. Many have even taken whole vacations with other families.

Edited May 25, 2021 by runner92

[Thesauron]

Maybe it's me, but I'm not understanding the percentage battle here. Even if we are taking the percentage of of the world, that still includes our brothers and sisters who have died because their deaths would be included. Of course, since we are only taking from a source of 8 million, the percentage for just us would be higher because our sample size is smaller. 
 
Also, not everyone has been able to just stay in the house. We aren't going door to door anymore, but many of us still have to work out of the home. Many still have to go get groceries.
 
On top of that, it's a sad reality, but not everyone has been following directions to isolate from others. It's unfortunate, but it's true. I know in my area, everyone hasn't. Many have even taken whole vacations with other families.

It’s not a battle. You see, most of us do not live outside of society, and we live fairly ordinary lives. But we lead our lives guided by respect for divine law. This means that the figures reported to the branch are probably more accurate than the figures we hear from our various governments. So when the number of deaths because of COVID among the Witnesses seem high, it is more likely an indication that the figures we hear from the world are much, much lower than they really ought to be. WHO has voiced a similar concern.

[Thesauron]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:14 PM, Jothob said:

Well the Bethelites in my congregation said they have been getting their vaccinations like the rest of us, by going to the vaccination sites or doctors office. They said the brothers would arrange for quite a few to go on the same day and then they would all self isolate for 14 days. 
That’s how they’ve done it here at the Britain branch. 

Same here. We do not get batches delivered to the branch, so the bethelites have to go on this necessary trip to a vaccination site.

Edited May 25, 2021 by carlos

[carlos]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:14 PM, Jothob said:

Well the Bethelites in my congregation said they have been getting their vaccinations like the rest of us, by going to the vaccination sites or doctors office. They said the brothers would arrange for quite a few to go on the same day and then they would all self isolate for 14 days. 

It's the same here. The special pioneers in our congregation went to a clinic yesterday to have their vaccine. In fact, that has been the procedure all this year. Bethelites could go to the doctor or any other necessary visit, but they had to quarantine for 14 days in their room afterward.

[runner92]

7 hours ago, Thesauron said:

It’s not a battle. You see, most of us do not live outside of society, and we live fairly ordinary lives. But we lead our lives guided by respect for divine law. This means that the figures reported to the branch are probably more accurate than the figures we hear from our various governments. So when the number of deaths because of COVID among the Witnesses seem high, it is more likely an indication that the figures we hear from the world are much, much lower than they really ought to be. WHO has voiced a similar concern.

I get that. But you have to think about sample size too. We are 8 million in total. There are over 7 billion people on this planet. Also, not all JWs have gotten COVID just like not all worldly people have. So us as an organization already probably had a tiny infection rate to begin with.  Hope I'm making sense. 

[jwhess]

Even one death is a tragedy.  We must be vigilant and keep as safe as possible.

[Thesauron]

I get that. But you have to think about sample size too. We are 8 million in total. There are over 7 billion people on this planet. Also, not all JWs have gotten COVID just like not all worldly people have. So us as an organization already probably had a tiny infection rate to begin with.  Hope I'm making sense. 

Sweden has about 10 million inhabitants, with about 14,000 dead from COVID. This has been considered high, and the government blamed in all sorts of ways. Jehovah’s Witnesses are fewer, but with a higher number of deaths, despite following stricter restrictions. I’d rather believe our brothers, they are honest, which makes me think that perhaps the real number of deaths in Sweden ought to be higher.

[jwhess]

There were comments in this site from brothers who felt reporting such disease or sickness to the elders to be relayed to the organization violated their privacy rights and indicated they would not report.  So our reporting is not complete either.  It is just the best we can do with our brothers cooperation and under the pandemic conditions of communication.  Elders recently were reminded to continue the weekly reports.

[jayrtom]

6 hours ago, jwhess said:

There were comments in this site from brothers who felt reporting such disease or sickness to the elders to be relayed to the organization violated their privacy rights and indicated they would not report.  So our reporting is not complete either.  It is just the best we can do with our brothers cooperation and under the pandemic conditions of communication.  Elders recently were reminded to continue the weekly reports.

In Europe (in Portugal but I extrapolate to Europe because of the gdpr laws) every br has to sign a form authorizing the use of their contacts by the organization. This is necessary mainly because of the reports on service work

I wonder if any br objected to that also.... That would mean he became inactive

 

There are some things the organization asks of us. I don't understand how someone may thhink that the organization has not the right to ask this or that 😮

They are working for our well being in every sense! 

[Hinata]

12 minutes ago, jayrtom said:

I wonder if any br objected to that also.... That would mean he became inactive

 

There are some things the organization asks of us. I don't understand how someone may thhink that the organization has not the right to ask this or that 😮

They are working for our well being in every sense! 

 

Satan’s modern system is advocating an unnaturally worrying attitudes towards one’s privacy, even making worldly people going as far as to completely hide themselves from the world. Of course, we all should always be careful not to post any inappropriate and unwanted contents on the internet, and by that we protect our privacy. But what if the brothers are affected by the air of the system, and even choose to hide themselves completely from the organisation? We really instead should be “shining as illuminators in the world.”

 

[Thesauron]

There were comments in this site from brothers who felt reporting such disease or sickness to the elders to be relayed to the organization violated their privacy rights and indicated they would not report.  So our reporting is not complete either.  It is just the best we can do with our brothers cooperation and under the pandemic conditions of communication.  Elders recently were reminded to continue the weekly reports.

I don’t think anyone I’ve talked to have opted to not be counted among the figures sent to the branch.

[jwhess]

1 hour ago, Thesauron said:

I don’t think anyone I’ve talked to have opted to not be counted among the figures sent to the branch.

That is good.  My reference was the "Herd Immunity: thread (starting on page 2 and going for a couple of pages).  It had posts similar to...

 

(excerpt)

"Is this an invasion of privacy?  

It's worth saying that it's voluntary.  If certain families don't report symptoms despite having them, there's nothing you can do. "

 

There was some "back-and-forth" for several exchanges.  Even Carlos and I had some discussion with each other.

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by jwhess

[M.J.]

You may have a right to privacy, and not report, but what does that accomplish? I don't understand why some feel the desire to keep it a big secret...?

Especially when so many have it. You're not going to stand out, you're just one of many who got sick.

[jayrtom]

22 hours ago, Hinata said:

 

Satan’s modern system is advocating an unnaturally worrying attitudes towards one’s privacy, even making worldly people going as far as to completely hide themselves from the world. Of course, we all should always be careful not to post any inappropriate and unwanted contents on the internet, and by that we protect our privacy. But what if the brothers are affected by the air of the system, and even choose to hide themselves completely from the organisation? We really instead should be “shining as illuminators in the world.”

 

That is very true. I personally have my mobile location turned on, and all privacy features turned off. I reckon that the advantages of having that surpasses the disadvantages (google has a lot of nice features that need the location turned on*) as I don't have anything to hide and don't expect anyone to be hacking me for whatever reason...

 

There are br's that are afraid of being located during GT and so they don't put any information on their letters, no phone n. no address, no email, etc...

 

I reason that there is no point in being afraid of that becasue if the authorities want to find us they will. It's not like we're preaching in hidden places and with masks on... (that would be the case if the preaching work was forbidden, but before that point  all our neighbours know that we are JW's, we can't hide that in a free country

 

Well this has matter for a whole thread on privacy...

 

 

* For example, a couple of weeks ago, my mother who lives with me, lost her phone and didn't know where... I just searched for it with google and found out it was on a coffee shop where she had been. I blocked it immediatly, called the coffee shop and the waiter found it on top of one table just in time and kept it for me

 

 

 

 

[Tortuga]

On 5/21/2021 at 1:32 AM, jwhess said:

Great report. Many of the Bethel brothers and sisters already vaccinated...♥️.

I recently heard that the Full Time Servants that are fully vaccinated have some of the restrictions reduced and they have more freedom to associate than the ones that aren't vaccinated. It's nice to see the Branch adjusting the guidelines for full time servants that have chosen to get vaccinated.

[rocket]

A few months ago our CO was in line to get vaccinated along with several elders from our Congregation. So I know for a fact that he was vaccinated.  He was giddy happy this past CO visit that he finally is allowed to travel and visit his aged mom of whom is not in the best of health.  The lifting of some restrictions on Full Time Servants that are vaccinated is a good thing I hope.