Governing Body update #8

[Doug]

On 12/5/2022 at 1:46 PM, Hope said:

 

 It's an INCREDIBLE provision. A spiritual life-saver to us all during the pandemic and and beautiful phone tie-in improvement. 

 

Now with the advent of bad, icy weather - and increased illness - it's incredible we won't have to cancel a meeting or service time because of outside conditions.  In times past, we'd cancel at least two or three per season.  Not necessary now... but if the Slave believes Zoom is being abused, who knows what will be the outcome?

 

 

Before Zoom our meeting might be cancelled due to weather.  One winter , we had three consecutive meetings cancel - Thursday/Sunday/Thursday.

Now, there's never a meeting cancelled.

 

If the meetings before Zoom were not cancelled , then you simply had to ask yourself if it was important enough to risk your life driving the icy roads at night (Psalm 115: 17 "The dead do not praise Jehovah").  And we don't want to forget the dear sister who broke her hip in the parking lot when she slipped on black ice.

 

It occurs to me that we had a hot thread about leaving our camera on or off during meetings.  Look how far we've come!!!

 

 

[Doug]

On 12/4/2022 at 11:10 AM, Pabo said:

 

 Then he started mulling over who it could be, and he later came back and worked it out who it is, it is I.

 

 

"I am he, the one speaking to you"   Pabo 1:1     

[Pabo]

6 hours ago, Doug said:

 

"I am he, the one speaking to you"   Pabo 1:1     

 

More like somewhere Pabo 30:6

[Francy]

On 12/4/2022 at 10:29 AM, Keep Fighting said:

I dont know but when GB bring this up about what is happening here in the most democratic country in the world, we all should be ready.

Actually I wasn't much surprised. Norway is one of the most progressive countries and there have already been some court's decisions against our Organization. This was really predictable.

[Sheep]

6 hours ago, Francy said:

Actually I wasn't much surprised. Norway is one of the most progressive countries and there have already been some court's decisions against our Organization. This was really predictable.

 

I thought about that too. It was apparently about our scriptural practice of disfellowshiping, and Brother Morris implied that Norway said we should change our beliefs! No way would Jehovah ever change what the Bible says just to suit the wrongly motivated beliefs of a worldly court! No doubt this was brought on by apostates, as was the case in Belgium. That decision was overturned later, but it does show that the same spirit against us prevails in many other places. Brother Morris rightly noted that we should "make it a matter of prayer."

[Eejay]

On 12/5/2022 at 11:25 AM, Woanders said:

Brother Morris had clearly addressed the fact that elderly and sick ones certainly have valid reasons to use Zoom. The direction was for those who really didn’t have reason to stay home except for convenience. How one wants to define that is a personal conscience matter.

 Thanks for highlighting this important aspect of our recent Zoom instruction.

 

It seems the problem is widespread where Zoom exists. Zoom is an absolute blessing when it is needed. Due to a nasty flu type viral infection followed by Covid, my family has missed KH attendance for over 3 weeks. BUT not a problem because we have not missed a single meeting and have been able to share in ministry, including Bible study work, without interruption. We will be clear to attend the next mid-week meeting in person.

 

I do not understand why anyone would PREFER to do meetings and ministry by Zoom, but I fully understand why they would do so if there was a NECESSITY due to a physical/mental health, safety, mobility, or some other issue. Thanks to Jehovah for such a wonderful provision for when it is needed.

 

Regarding the choosing to stay home (cameras off and quick exit or avoidance of breakouts included), it all seems a bit like the situation Jesus experienced with his disciples the night before his arrest. (Matt.26:40-45). We understand why the disciples went to sleep, and Jesus counsel reminds me of the way Br. Morris approached this issue. But it doesn't minimise the importance of WHY Jesus chastised them (albeit gently) for succumbing to sleep (v45). Look at the result in v 56: "Then all the disciples abandoned him and fled." They did not have the spiritual strength to deal with the situation that ensued.

It reminds me too of Paul's well-known counsel at Heb.10:24-25: "Let us consider one another ...NOT forsaking our meeting together as some have the custom...all the more so as you see the day drawing near". 

 

So Bro. Morris addressed those who might be in danger of developing a customary practice of neglecting physical attendance at meetings, along with the requirement to "widen out" in demonstrating love to one another and all those other things that cannot be done remotely via an electronic screen to a selective audience.

 

Jehovah will never allow his servants to go without due to circumstance ( comp. Heb.10:5) but it is a different story for those who CHOOSE not to come to the table (comp.Pro.19:24).

"The words of the wise are like oxgoads" Ecc12:11. There may be a little discomfort in recognising and complying with wise counsel, but nothing like the discomfort if one resists (Comp. Acts 26:14)

 

[Amygdala]

1 hour ago, Eejay said:

It seems the problem is widespread where Zoom exists. Zoom is an absolute blessing when it is needed. Due to a nasty flu type viral infection followed by Covid, my family has missed KH attendance for over 3 weeks. BUT not a problem because we have not missed a single meeting and have been able to share in ministry, including Bible study work, without interruption. We will be clear to attend the next mid-week meeting in person.

 

Were in the same boat, atm. Glad to hear you are all on the mend!

[Sofia]

14 hours ago, Francy said:

Actually I wasn't much surprised. Norway is one of the most progressive countries and there have already been some court's decisions against our Organization. This was really predictable.

Something rotten is happening in Spain

 

https://bitterwinter.org/spain-hate-speech-against-jehovahs-witnesses/

 

GB knows…and there s a need for help in this matter in Europe 🙈😬😬😬

 

[Doug]

2 hours ago, Sofia said:

Something rotten is happening in Spain

 

https://bitterwinter.org/spain-hate-speech-against-jehovahs-witnesses/

 

GB knows…and there s a need for help in this matter in Europe 🙈😬😬😬

 

 

The author lays the blame squarely on irresponsible media not checking before disseminating.

If not for the media , this wouldn't have gone far.  Just apostates.

I liked his comments that international courts and Western governments have condemned what Russia has done.

[Jimi-L]

If I understand correctly, thisNorway case is related to this: https://bitterwinter.org/norway-decision-against-the-jehovahs-witnesses/ 

[halfspanishlee]

My Congregation has a get together party this weekend still undecided if going or not my name is down to go. 

[CharlieJ]

On 12/11/2022 at 9:01 AM, Jimi-L said:

If I understand correctly, thisNorway case is related to this: https://bitterwinter.org/norway-decision-against-the-jehovahs-witnesses/ 

As I understand it from the Brothers in Norway, they are not being persecuted in any way, but the government agency that protects families and children are saying that we can't disfellowship minor children because it violates the rights of children and supports the social isolation of minors. 

But our brothers are free to preach and hold meetings as they always have. The only difference is that we are not a registered religion in Norway and we will not receive the government handouts of 1.6 million dollars. But my questions is, why do we need this money from Satan's organization anyway? We are free to preach the truth and conduct studies with absolutely no opposition. Norway is a wealthy country with many nice Kingdom Halls, so the money is not needed. Our work is about the Kingdom and preaching and should not be focused on money. 

Also I'm not sure why many have been sharing these worldly articles from Mr. Introvigne. He appears to be a staunch Catholic who supports many false religions including Scientology and more than a dozen cults.  Shouldn't we rely upon what the Faithful Slave has published and not upon someone who is very deeply embedded with Babylon the Great? 

Just my opinion.

[jwhess]

17 minutes ago, CharlieJ said:

But our brothers are free to preach and hold meetings as they always have. The only difference is that we are not a registered religion in Norway and we will not receive the government handouts of 1.6 million dollars. But my questions is, why do we need this money from Satan's organization anyway? We are free to preach the truth and conduct studies with absolutely no opposition. Norway is a wealthy country with many nice Kingdom Halls, so the money is not needed. Our work is about the Kingdom and preaching and should not be focused on money. 

There  is a big difference between being "allowed" or ignored and being registered and approved leagally.

[CharlieJ]

4 minutes ago, jwhess said:

There  is a big difference between being "allowed" or ignored and being registered and approved leagally.

I'm not sure if I completely understand what you are saying, but overall I think it's important to remember that true Christianity does not reside in man-made institutions, nor is it dependent upon funds from Satan's system of things. 

At the very least I think it's important for our brothers to realize that we are not being persecuted, but rather are reliant upon Jehovah to sustain the preaching work just as he did during the Nazi occupation of Norway. 

It will be interesting to see how all of this turns out, because I know that in Europe there is a lot of opposition to our scriptural right to disfellowship wrongdoers. 

[Paul20]

35 minutes ago, CharlieJ said:

But my questions is, why do we need this money from Satan's organization anyway? We are free to preach the truth and conduct studies with absolutely no opposition. Norway is a wealthy country with many nice Kingdom Halls, so the money is not needed. Our work is about the Kingdom and preaching and should not be focused on money. 

 

The organisation has decided it's worth fighting for. Maybe it's more about equality under the law rather than the actual money? I don't know, I'm just guessing.

[CharlieJ]

26 minutes ago, Paul20 said:

 

The organisation has decided it's worth fighting for. Maybe it's more about equality under the law rather than the actual money? I don't know, I'm just guessing.

According to the national media coverage, our brothers are being treated equally since everyone must comply with the same laws regarding children. They are trying to say that our faith is the only faith that disfellowships minor children, causing social isolation, and that this violates the laws of Norway. 

I can't speak as an authority since I don't know what all the other religious groups do in that country. I also don't trust everything the media says, but in this case they appear to be saying the same thing. 

I never really thought much about the social isolation thing until this came up. Apparently the government isn't trying to change the JW rules on disfellowshipping for adults, they only object to what happens to children. So I think that's one part that brother Morris left out, and our brothers may not realize that this is only about the disfellowshipping of children. 

But we will certainly wait on Jehovah and there will likely be clarification in the future. 

[jwhess]

50 minutes ago, CharlieJ said:

I'm not sure if I completely understand what you are saying, but overall I think it's important to remember that true Christianity does not reside in man-made institutions, nor is it dependent upon funds from Satan's system of things. 

At the very least I think it's important for our brothers to realize that we are not being persecuted, but rather are reliant upon Jehovah to sustain the preaching work just as he did during the Nazi occupation of Norway. 

It will be interesting to see how all of this turns out, because I know that in Europe there is a lot of opposition to our scriptural right to disfellowship wrongdoers. 

Our organization fights for registration rights in all the countries in which we preach.  We have been doing this for many decades.  I have attached a photo of our Defending and Legally Establishing the Good News booklet from 1950 (that's 72 years ago).

 

 

[carlos]

1 hour ago, CharlieJ said:

Also I'm not sure why many have been sharing these worldly articles from Mr. Introvigne. He appears to be a staunch Catholic who supports many false religions including Scientology and more than a dozen cults.  Shouldn't we rely upon what the Faithful Slave has published and not upon someone who is very deeply embedded with Babylon the Great? 

 

BitterWinter.org is not a religious site. It's a human rights site which reports and denounces governmental attacks against religious groups. He reports governmental abuse against Jehovah's Witnesses as well as against other religions. His articles are as "wordly" as any newspaper.

[carlos]

1 hour ago, CharlieJ said:

I'm not sure if I completely understand what you are saying, but overall I think it's important to remember that true Christianity does not reside in man-made institutions, nor is it dependent upon funds from Satan's system of things. 

 

Money is not the issue.

 

A basic concept of democracy is separation of church and state. The government doesn't have any say about the way a religious organization works. But that is exactly what the Norwegian government is doing here. They are trying to dictate religious rules. And that's a very dangerous precedent. Today it's the age of those disfellowshipped, tomorrow it can be that we have to accept homosexuality or that women must be appointed as elders. That's what the Scandinavian branch is trying to establish legally.

[trottigy]

It's also a slippery slope, isn't it? If we leave it to the government to decide at what age you're allowed to disfellowship people, then they can just gradually increase the age, correct? In fact, let's say they increase it to 16 or 18 because those are minors. And then a 13, 14 or even 16-year-old sexually abuses someone and they come after us for not doing something about it. This is how Satan system of things works. Isn't it? They "gradually" get you to compromise until the compromise is so big that you're doing the exact opposite of whar Jehovah wants.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by trottigy

[Tortuga]

5 minutes ago, trottigy said:

It's also a slippery slope, isn't it? If we leave it to the government to decide at what age you're allowed to disfellowship people, then they can just gradually increase the age, correct? In fact, let's say they increase it to 16 or 18 because those are minors. And then a 13, 14 or even 16-year-old sexually abuses someone and they come after us for not doing something about it. This is how Satan system of things works. Isn't it? They "gradually" get you to compromise until the compromise is so big that you're doing the exact opposite of whar Jehovah wants.

 

 

Good point, then gradually a committee of men can't disfellowship a woman, so a sister would have to be on the committee. Wow...

[Shawnster]

Norway is not persecuting Witnesses in the same way Russia or Eritrea does.  On the other hand, any law that targets Witnesses and our customs, practices, and beliefs is persecution, regardless if its Norway, the USA, or Russia. 

[carlos]

25 minutes ago, Tortuga said:

Good point, then gradually a committee of men can't disfellowship a woman, so a sister would have to be on the committee. Wow...

 

All of these troubles are being caused by apostates who are stirring the pot.

 

Not long ago a Norwegian court decided that a woman who had been disfellowshipped for immorality should be reinstated. In February this year the Supreme Court in Norway overturned that decision. Now they come with this. It's clear the Norwegian government is trying to stick its nose into the way the congregation works.

[MullumMiss]

I’m finding all this information about Norway very interesting.  I did not know any of this. Thanks all for the input.

[Tortuga]

2 hours ago, CharlieJ said:

They are trying to say that our faith is the only faith that disfellowships minor children, causing social isolation, and that this violates the laws of Norway. 

Baptized minors..

I wonder how many baptized minors are disfellowshipped?

A law that keeps you from disfellowshipping baptized minors for violating their dedication is like not being allowed to fire a minor from a job for stealing.