Love or criticism?

[jwhess]

I have noticed that in recent times Christian love and civility are being strained.  Look at some of the threads and posts in various subjects.  Someone will make a comment and the observers take sides. Not just commenting but taking the person to task over the post.  If I say “Great Crowd” in a post, someone will have to point out that these people only exist after Armageddon.  That riposte will generate a counter attack with a Watchtower quote saying it’s used as a generic term, and so on.

 

Supposedly on this forum, we are all the “good-guys” and the opposers are the ones “out-there” in the world.  In the western movie scenario, we have ‘circled the wagons’ to protect us against the Indian attack (apologies to my first nation, aboriginal, etc friends).  Inside the wagon circle, we are supposed to be supportive, caring, defending and so on.  Instead, these hardy pioneers are squabbling about spelling, counting, typos, limited research, forms, levity, personal attacks and so on.

 

Satan does not have to assault us to get us to fall, we trip over our own feet.  I like accuracy as much as the next researcher but is it life-threatening?  We make all kinds of allowances for children.

*** w94 5/15 p. 12 par. 11 Parents, Your Children Need Specialized Attention ***

One couple listened while their three-year-old asked God to bless “Wally.” He prayed for “Wally” on succeeding nights, and the parents were greatly encouraged when they realized that he meant the brothers in Malawi, then suffering persecution.

 

If that poor kid had posted here he might have received a smile if he was under 12 years of age, but a much different response if he was 20.  What happened to the kind, loving appreciation for a good effort?  Suggestions (even counsel)  can be applied if necessary but can we avoid being critical?

 

Human nature is with us always, but how we apply the new personality is a choice.  I hope all of our forum participants can upgrade their research and comments but I want to apply tolerance to those who have not reached my exalted level of competence…❤️

[Tortuga]

Thank you for the reminder, I find it extremely discouraging when someone publicly points out someones faults or even their perceived faults. 

[Tortuga]

I really enjoy this MW that was highlighted recently. It's a good reminder about how to view things that annoy us.

https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/PrgEvtFeatured/pub-jwb_201811_7_VIDEO

 

2 hours ago, jwhess said:

Inside the wagon circle, we are supposed to be supportive, caring, defending and so on.  Instead, these hardy pioneers are squabbling about spelling, counting, typos, limited research, forms, levity, personal attacks and so on.

 

[tucker]

John, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! This has needed to be mentioned in our family for a long time. We get enough criticism from Satan's world. Our circle needs to encourage each other, remembering that some of us do not have the opportunity for a decent education. Some of us do not have the capacity to learn as well as some others. Jehovah sees our efforts and our potential . Should not we have the mind of Christ and overlook our dear brothers' and sisters' imperfections? If we are nitpicking now, it will certainly divide us during the GT. Abraham Lincoln took notice of Mark 3:24 in connection with the American Civil War; " If a kingdom  becomes divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand." W e have a tremendous bank of information about Jehovah's people suffering intense persecution. One of the most important tools for them, after Jehovah's holy spirit, was the brotherhood. We need to practice now, how to appreciate our dear friends. We may have to die for someone with whom we do not get along. What a tragedy that could be, to lose our life, our approval from Jehovah, because we did not like a fellow believer.

[GrumpysWife]

Brilliant all!

[Paradise-Lover]

Wow, terrific reminder!

[Sheep]

1 hour ago, tucker said:

. . . Our circle needs to encourage each other, remembering that some of us do not have the opportunity for a decent education. Some of us do not have the capacity to learn as well as some others. . .

Thank you, sister Virginia. Every individual is unique, and some have abilities that others don't. Others have limitations that we don't. But since we don't know each other personally it can be a challenge to remember that we might not be aware of another's limitations. I have been getting a couple of PMs recently from one brother in the forums here, who apparently was born in sickness and does not have a good memory as a result. He considers himself "very unintelligent." He faces challenges that we might not be aware of. Although I reassured him, it must drag down on his self-worth if he sees the kind of posts some have been putting in the topics. Some just don't realize what kind of background our brothers and sisters here come from!

 

Thank you, @jwhess for reminding us of this.

[GoldenAge]

7 hours ago, jwhess said:

I have noticed that in recent times Christian love and civility are being strained.  Look at some of the threads and posts in various subjects.  Someone will make a comment and the observers take sides. Not just commenting but taking the person to task over the post.  If I say “Great Crowd” in a post, someone will have to point out that these people only exist after Armageddon.  That riposte will generate a counter attack with a Watchtower quote saying it’s used as a generic term, and so on.

 

Supposedly on this forum, we are all the “good-guys” and the opposers are the ones “out-there” in the world.  In the western movie scenario, we have ‘circled the wagons’ to protect us against the Indian attack (apologies to my first nation, aboriginal, etc friends).  Inside the wagon circle, we are supposed to be supportive, caring, defending and so on.  Instead, these hardy pioneers are squabbling about spelling, counting, typos, limited research, forms, levity, personal attacks and so on.

 

Satan does not have to assault us to get us to fall, we trip over our own feet.  I like accuracy as much as the next researcher but is it life-threatening?  We make all kinds of allowances for children.

*** w94 5/15 p. 12 par. 11 Parents, Your Children Need Specialized Attention ***

One couple listened while their three-year-old asked God to bless “Wally.” He prayed for “Wally” on succeeding nights, and the parents were greatly encouraged when they realized that he meant the brothers in Malawi, then suffering persecution.

 

If that poor kid had posted here he might have received a smile if he was under 12 years of age, but a much different response if he was 20.  What happened to the kind, loving appreciation for a good effort?  Suggestions (even counsel)  can be applied if necessary but can we avoid being critical?

 

Human nature is with us always, but how we apply the new personality is a choice.  I hope all of our forum participants can upgrade their research and comments but I want to apply tolerance to those who have not reached my exalted level of competence…❤️

very touching, thank you my brother

[Antz12]

Thank you for being brave, I am new to social media and struggle with praise and constructive advice especially when I can’t see the person, as such I run like a scared bunny when I got “construction advice” for my first few posts. As such I just read mostly now. Too scared to post. So thank you, it needed to be said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hatcheckgirl]

Thank you John, great reminder.  Any of us can fall into this trap - we are human, and sinful after all.  Paul also wished to do the right thing, but admitted he failed.  We all want to do the right thing by our brothers, and sometimes we just don't think things out before we speak (or write). So, it's good we hear the 'straight' truth, from time to time.  We all need the readjustment.

 

And Nina, I hope you get to see the lovely nature of this forum.  Overall it is a great place, with positive and upbuilding comments.  We can have a laugh and deep spiritual discussions with friends from all over the world.  But, we can do with a bit of a polish sometimes too. 

[blue-jay]

 That's why I rarely post here anymore. 

And it often feels like there is kind of a gang mentality, especially if someone has a opinion that's different from the majority. They'll all jump you and try to show how ridiculous your opinion is. I don't need that. In person they probably wouldn't have the guts.

[GeordieGirl]

I am probably one of those to whom John is referring. I know I have a tendency to be rather blunt and haven't yet learned to refer to a spade as an earth manoeuvering implement but I don't deliberately mean to criticise or offend. 

 

So I hereby publicly apologise to any and all who I have unintentionally offended, upset or criticised in anyway by my inability to season my written word with salt. 

 

I love you all and I will try harder in future. 

 

[Skyler]

13 minutes ago, GeordieGirl said:

I am probably one of those to whom John is referring. I know I have a tendency to be rather blunt and haven't yet learned to refer to a spade as an earth manoeuvering implement but I don't deliberately mean to criticise or offend. 

 

So I hereby publicly apologise to any and all who I have unintentionally offended, upset or criticised in anyway by my inability to season my written word with salt. 

 

I love you all and I will try harder in future. 

 

I haven't witnesses any of this, but what a beautiful person you must be to admit your mistakes openly. Jehovah loves you very much.

 

Also, thank you so much Brother for the reminder. It can be so easy to be critical of people's flaws, and especially tempting if that person seems to get themselves in the situation time and again. So it's good to remember just how many times we ourselves fall short every single day, and how Jehovah doesn't bring up out past faults us, but rather He is loving and patient with us. The GB has been so good about this subject in our recent WT studies. People are hurt and broken in these last days, even in the truth, and it should be our goal to lift them, rather than kick them while they are down.

Edited November 22, 2018 by lovejoypeace

[Tortuga]

17 minutes ago, GeordieGirl said:

I am probably one of those to whom John is referring. I know I have a tendency to be rather blunt and haven't yet learned to refer to a spade as an earth manoeuvering implement but I don't deliberately mean to criticise or offend. 

 

So I hereby publicly apologise to any and all who I have unintentionally offended, upset or criticised in anyway by my inability to season my written word with salt. 

 

I love you all and I will try harder in future. 

 

Johns reminder applies to all of us, we all get a little 'keyboard bravery' at times. It's human nature and the nature of the forum for us to offer our opinions, sometimes that appears confrontational or contentious when it isn't intended to be. We all need to be more loving in what we write and what we read.

 

 

[New World Explorer]

I had to withdraw from commenting on many scriptural topics for that very reason, that's WHY, you often see only  "humor" in my comments.

If I have to "defend" details and giving "Insight Volume" additional supporting comments because someone has a critical eye, then I simply do not have time for it.

To busy in real life with heavy business and congregational responsibilities (especially with the spiritual ones)

Still enjoying the forum, and some of the comments are just "groundbreaking" and extremely up-building.

 

On the other hand, if I ever made anyone feeling bit "green" by my comments then I apologize

YES, we need to keep ourselves from "keyboard bravery" as Tortuga pointed out.

 

Great reminder - THANK YOU

[Beggar for the Spirit]

This is just a personal viewpoint, but I feel that we as a group have improved over the years. 

A few years ago it seemed that more often than now there were some posts that had some strong words and there sometimes were some serious debating/bickering. Some member even stopped posting or left JWtalk because of this tension. Maybe some others will also agree that they have observed this improvement.

 

And I would like to say also that there are many members here who have rarely or never written anything critical or hurtful! 

And many of these ones are our sisters. I remember reading certain posts  by some of our sisters that are outstanding examples of kindness and tactfulness. In fact, we as brothers can look to some of our sisters' example in displaying such beautiful patience with 1 another and trying to be more understanding as to why the other person is asking such a question or making such strange or defensive comments. For example, I have seen some of our sisters reply to someone's incorrect facts or rigid views with such a delicacy and thoughtfulness that the other person didn't even realize that they were just corrected/counseled. In fact, I have often seen the person who they responded to hit "like" or "thanks". 

 

So I want to thank many of you sisters who because of your sweet humility, you don't look to pounce on a post that has incorrect facts or respond with an air of superiority. Sometimes a member will ask a question, and to many of us it may seem like such a basic question or we feel that as 1 of Jehovah's Witnesses, that person should know better. This is where we as brothers, including myself, need to improve. As men, we have this tendency to like facts, accuracy. Which is good, unless, we are putting this ahead of the priority of love and kindness. And whether we are a brother or sister, sometimes our pride likes correcting others. We may not even be aware of it, but correcting others can make us feel like we are knowledgeable or spiritually strong. And while facts and truths are very important, Jehovah did not inspire these words:

“. . faith, hope, facts, love; but the greatest of these is facts.” (1CO 13:13)  

 

So I as a man, knowing my tendencies and me as an imperfect person and influenced by the prideful and arrogant world around us, I need to try harder to cultivate the wonderful qualities that show others that I care about them and express words that encourage and motivate others. So myself and we as brothers must improve, but please sisters, continue being patient with us. 

 

And finally, I think there is another aspect to this issue that I am grateful Richard mentioned and it is valuable:

12 hours ago, Tortuga said:

We all need to be more loving in what we write and what we read.

So what makes our forum encouraging and comforting is not only the way posts/comments are written, but how they are read.

As servants of Jehovah who view accurate knowledge and truths as very important. But we must humbly acknowledge that sometimes what we post may be only be partially accurate or is not accurate at all. And so if another brother/sister feels that it would be loving to help you or me with something incorrect that we posted, then how kind and loving it would be on our part to show an appreciative spirit for the any adjustments in understanding or counsel that is shared with us.

 

Many of us, and I include myself, can be too sensitive, even defensive at times. We also may have issues with pride in that what we post we want everyone to like and agree with. But yet our brothers/sisters cannot agree with things that are not Truths, not scripturally accurate or are speculative in nature. So if someone does correct us or counsel us, even if it not written with a loving and kind tone as it should, let's try to imagine our self in the shoes of an elder who is giving counsel/advice and ask, "How would I want that person to respond to my counsel/advice?" I would hope that they would respond like this:

"Oh, I see now that what I said was incorrect. I want to thank you for helping to better understand. I do appreciate Jehovah's Truths, and so I want to speak the accurate truth as much as possible. So thank you for caring about me enough to help adjust my thinking" 

 

Can you imagine if we all responded this way here on JWtalk when someone corrects us or counsels us? When we respond in such a humble way, this endears us to others and most importantly, our Father Jehovah sees that accurate knowledge and Truth are important to us . And Jehovah will espcially appreciate seeing how we have become very soft clay and we can be corrected on anything. And even if the advice, correction, counsel seems cold or harsh, we can find what is good in it and helpful so that we may go on pleasing our Father Jehovah.

Quote

*** w06 8/15 p. 27 pars. 11-12 “You Have Heard of the Endurance of Job” ***
At a time when it seemed that his life was coming to an end, he(Job) had the comfort of knowing that he had done his best to help others, that he had held to Jehovah’s righteous standards, and that he had avoided any form of false worship.—Job 31:4-11.
 The fact remains, of course, that Job needed help to adjust his viewpoint in some respects. And he humbly accepted that help—another key to his enduring successfully. Job listened respectfully to Elihu’s wise counsel, and he responded positively to Jehovah’s correction. “I talked, but I was not understanding,” he admitted. “I make a retraction, and I do repent in dust and ashes.” (Job 42:3, 6) Despite the disease that still plagued him, Job rejoiced that this adjustment in his thinking had drawn him closer to God. “I have come to know that you [Jehovah] are able to do all things,” Job said. (Job 42:2) 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Beggar for the Spirit

[Doug]

On 11/21/2018 at 5:16 AM, jwhess said:

What happened to the kind, loving appreciation for a good effort?  Suggestions (even counsel)  can be applied if necessary but can we avoid being critical?

❤️

 

John, thank you. But, isn't your post de'facto  'criticism ' ?  hahaha

 

But seriously, post #9 said "too scared to post".  I know I've had that feeling on occasion.

 

Criticism , imho , is a mental-health issue. Low self esteem, high self esteem, anger, resentment etc will lead to a tendency to be critical of anything and everything. Because it makes the person feel better about THEMSELVES.

So, it can simply be a selfish motive. But not exclusively, of course.

 

I find myself guilty of "hasty posting". Even as I type I realize I may not have all the facts. It's like I have a compelling urge to contribute and the check frequently for likes or hearts or googly eyes !  Can I get an Amen ?

 

However, I never criticize, because I know someone smarter than me will take me out at the knees.

 

About this forum; I ask myself "How did I manage to get through life before I joined" ?  I NEED this forum !  I shudder to think of it gone for some reason. It's like an international coffee break. We can speak about any subject and get interesting points of view.

I literally have thanked Jehovah God for this forum !!  Anyone else drone that? I wouldn't be surprised to hear a YES !

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I LOVE YOU GUYS !!!!

[Friends just call me Ross]

29 minutes ago, Doug said:

I literally have thanked Jehovah God for this forum !!  Anyone else drone that? I wouldn't be surprised to hear a YES !

Yes! 

Living with an atheist who hates Jehovah (I know, how can he possibly hate a God he doesn't believe exists, right?)

and living 60 miles roundtrip away from the hall, JWTalk has truly been a spiritual lifeline for me.

 

Before JWTalk, there was no one to share an appreciation for the beauty of Jehovah's creation with. (Hubby thinks it is

all just some random accident.) No one to share the gems of personal Bible study with.

 

Being able to praise Jehovah with my fellow believers PERIOD is such an amazing blessing!!!

 

Psalm 22:25 "I will praise you in the large congregation."

Psalm 35:18 "Then I will give thanks to you in the great congregation; 

I will praise you among the throngs of people."

Psalm 40: 10 "...I do not hide your loyal love and your truth in the great congregation."

Hebrews 2:12 "as he says: “I will declare your name to my brothers;

in the midst of the congregation I will praise you with song.”

 

Yup!  We're all congregated here in cyberspace...and I think it's pretty GREAT! 

 

 

[Loopy]

Well, I may not be married and altho I live only about 4 miles from the Kingdom Hall, there’s times I wish I had at least one of the friend’s that I could do things with….either having a sister to just take a walk and enjoy Jehovah’s creations or even use electronics to share spiritual things and encouragement.

 

Just seeing friends at the Hall, but no association outside of that can only leave the walls to talk to. I’m not good at one sad conversations. 😁😁😁

 

Distance really isn’t the entire issue. It’s having friends in the congregation willing to have time to go out of their way to include other sisters either with unbelieving mates or single ones in their outdoor activities or whatever. We just don’t have that in our congregation. ☹️☹️☹️

 

But we too have to look for those willing to or wanting to have someone to do things with. But not leaving everything up to them. We have to make an effort as well. I have tried. 

 

Don’t forget, I’m here. I’ve always been here. I’m just a phone call or email away.

 

So you’re really not the Lone Ranger, Ross. 🤠 🤠

 

I just don’t have a bear 🐻 of a husband to deal with. 

 

 

 

[GeordieGirl]

44 minutes ago, Loopy said:

Well, I may not be married and altho I live only about 4 miles from the Kingdom Hall, there’s times I wish I had at least one of the friend’s that I could do things with….either having a sister to just take a walk and enjoy Jehovah’s creations or even use electronics to share spiritual things and encouragement.

 

Just seeing friends at the Hall, but no association outside of that can only leave the walls to talk to. I’m not good at one sad conversations. 😁😁😁

 

Distance really isn’t the entire issue. It’s having friends in the congregation willing to have time to go out of their way to include other sisters either with unbelieving mates or single ones in their outdoor activities or whatever. We just don’t have that in our congregation. ☹️☹️☹️

 

But we too have to look for those willing to or wanting to have someone to do things with. But not leaving everything up to them. We have to make an effort as well. I have tried. 

 

Don’t forget, I’m here. I’ve always been here. I’m just a phone call or email away.

 

So you’re really not the Lone Ranger, Ross. 🤠 🤠

 

I just don’t have a bear 🐻 of a husband to deal with. 

 

 

 

I have been on both sides of that particular fence.  I had an awful time with my ex-husband till Jehovah opened the door for me to escape.

 

But apart from that, snap @Loopy  As I was reading this, it could have been me writing it. The only additonal problem for me is some chronic health issues which curb a lot of what I would like to be able to do. 

 

A side not, however, is a few months ago a brother came up to me in my hall and said, so and so asked me to say hi to you.  I saw them at the singles ball the other night. 

 

 Singles ball?  What singles ball? There was a singles ball???  

 

I will just get back in my corner,  nurse my wounds and wait patiently for the new system. 

 

Thank goodness for you guys .. all of you.  I appreciate this forum so much. 

 

 

 

 

[Loopy]

7 minutes ago, GeordieGirl said:

I have been on both sides of that particular fence.  I had an awful time with my ex-husband till Jehovah opened the door for me to escape.

 

But apart from that, snap @Loopy  As I was reading this, it could have been me writing it. The only additonal problem for me is some chronic health issues which curb a lot of what I would like to be able to do. 

 

A side not, however, is a few months ago a brother came up to me in my hall and said, so and so asked me to say hi to you.  I saw them at the singles ball the other night. 

 

 Singles ball?  What singles ball? There was a singles ball???  

 

I will just get back in my corner,  nurse my wounds and wait patiently for the new system. 

 

Thank goodness for you guys .. all of you.  I appreciate this forum so much. 

 

 

 

 

 

Definitely sounds like me. I’m a people person. I love being together with others. I just don’t like being made to feel like I’m invisible. I know I shouldn’t feel this way, but I do. 

 

I like that...Singles ball. What singles ball.

 

Kinda like when a sister saw me and says: “ I’m sure you know there are 3 sisters that had surgery.” Ummm, no, I didn’t know.” All I could do is give the deer caught in the headlights look. 

 

O well, yeah, I’ll help you nurse your wounds if you’ll nurse mine. 🤓🤓🤓

[Jeanie]

4 hours ago, GeordieGirl said:

I have been on both sides of that particular fence.  I had an awful time with my ex-husband till Jehovah opened the door for me to escape.

 

But apart from that, snap @Loopy  As I was reading this, it could have been me writing it. The only additonal problem for me is some chronic health issues which curb a lot of what I would like to be able to do. 

 

A side not, however, is a few months ago a brother came up to me in my hall and said, so and so asked me to say hi to you.  I saw them at the singles ball the other night. 

 

 Singles ball?  What singles ball? There was a singles ball???  

 

I will just get back in my corner,  nurse my wounds and wait patiently for the new system. 

 

Thank goodness for you guys .. all of you.  I appreciate this forum so much. 

 

 

 

 

I have never heard of a singles ball.  But, I like the sounds of it.  LOL. 

[GeordieGirl]

11 minutes ago, Jnutcurl said:

I have never heard of a singles ball.  But, I like the sounds of it.  LOL. 

There was one in a country town where I used to live about 2 hours South of where I live now.  A friend of mine met her husband there and they've been married 12+ years now.

 

I wouldn't necessarily want to go to meet a husband .. just meeting new brothers and sisters who are in the same boat as myself is nice. 

There's always the chance I wouldn't have been able to go because I wouldn't be up to it physically, but an invitation would have been most welcome. 

[Vinnie]

In a sense, here on Jwtalk, we have all come into a relationship with one another like one big happy family. The truth ties us together in bonds of love.  But like family, I think  it's easy to be critical and yet done out of love. Here on the forum, it's a challenge to learn and accept each other for who they are and for what and how they say things. We all have different perspectives and points of view because we are from the four corners of the world.  I have flaws. My flaws have flaws. I sometimes see things from the wrong side of the telescope. It's a struggle for me with friendships and relationships.  I think, in a good way, that being here on Jwtalk can be a great opportunity for me to get to know and understand my spiritual family better, to become a better people person.  I'd like to say hello again and  thank you to everyone of my brothers and sisters. your all wonderful.  

[Myew]

There are some especially encouraging posts here, thank you all. (Lamentations 3:40) Let us examine and scrutinize our ways, and let us return to Jehovah.