The Mysterious Coronavirus Spreading Worldwide

[rocket]

If you identify yourself as one who promotes something that flies in the face of the direction of the slave then you convict yourself. I don't need to point a finger at anyone. It is not loving to promote something that flies in the face of the direction of the Slave nor does it contribute to the unity of the brotherhood. IMHO

[Shawnster]

59 minutes ago, Jay Petersen said:

In response to Rocket…..how can you come to that conclusion. You have called me repulsive ?

Where did anyone call you repulsive?  Lynn said he found a certain action or behavior repulsive. 

 

You are not your actions or behaviors, are you? 

 

Fallacious reasoning isn't helpful 

 

[carlos]

The way I view it: I hear conflicting reports, some claiming one thing, some claiming the opposite. We know most sources have an agenda. And most of us are not scientists and, at least speaking for me, most of the info in those studies goes well over my head. I have no way to make sure who's telling the truth and who's lying.

 

But our brothers have spoken clearly about the pandemic. They have explained that covid has killed tens of thousands of our brothers and sisters. They have explained which prevention measures are effective. And they have encouraged us to get the vaccine if possible, explaining that it has been effective with the friends serving at branches and it hasn't had any serious side effects. That's one source I trust. After that, all the anti-vaccine rhetoric is out of place in my opinion.

 

I feel there are many spiritual subjects we can discuss that are much more worth our time than these anti-vaccine stories.

[Brother_Bliss]

14 minutes ago, carlos said:

And they have encouraged us to get the vaccine if possible, explaining that it has been effective with the friends serving at branches and it hasn't had any serious side effects. That's one source I trust. After that, all the anti-vaccine rhetoric is out of place in my opinion.

Well said! 

 

5 hours ago, rocket said:

I personally find it repulsive that someone claiming to be a friend of peace would promote something that flies in the face of direction from the Faithful Slave.

Exactly! If someone has personal reasons for abstaining from the vaccine, they should still be respectful of others who recognize the value of the Faithful Slave's guidance and see the vaccine as a way to put their life and health first and foremost. 

 

A true Christian would not promote anti-vax rhetoric in person or online. 

[coolbrz731]

In my simple understanding, let's replace the vaccine with exercise.  The slave has always recommended exercise.  However, I have a bad heart(really, I don't.  This is just for this statement.  I hike regularly), so the slave's recommendation is harmful to me.  But, I would never, ever promote something that is against exercise if the slave is recommending it.  You can replace the word exercise with whatever word you want, including covid vaccines.  It's the same principle.

[Old]

On 5/27/2022 at 10:15 AM, Jay Petersen said:

Yes, please read the entire 20 plus page article, it may be rather lengthy but quite insightful at the same time. Knowledge is only going to empower us as a group and individually. 

 

In response to Mykyl…you didn’t complete the quote you posted, it was a partial statement lacking context. Here is the whole statement as published:

 

The increasing evidence that the vaccines do little to control disease spread and that their effectiveness wanes over time make it even more imperative to assess the degree to which the vaccines might cause harm. That SARS-CoV-2 modified spike protein mRNA vaccinations have bio- logical impacts is without question. Here we attempt to distinguish those impacts from natural infection, and establish a mechanistic framework linking those unique biological impacts to pathologies now associated with vaccination. We recognize that the causal links between biological effects initiated by mRNA vaccination and adverse outcomes have not been established in the large majority of cases.

 

I encourage everyone to read the whole article. 

 

Further comment on page 9 of the article states:

 

A central point of our analysis below is the important distinction between the impact of vaccination versus natural infection on type I IFN. While vaccination actively suppresses its production, natural infection promotes type I IFN production very early in the disease cycle. Those with preexisting conditions often exhibit impaired type I IFN signaling, which leads to more severe, critical, and even fatal COVID-19. If the impairment induced by the vaccine is maintained as antibody levels wane over time, this could lead to a situation where the vaccine causes a more severe disease expression than would have been the case in the absence of the vaccine.

 

 

Why are you shouting?

[vern]

I can see poeple aren.t.dropping like flies from the vaccine.

 

But the dark manipulation for trying to force poeple to take is obscene to me. Especially when vaccination with covid vaccines do nothing to prevent spread in vaccinated persons.  Trying to sayunvaccinated hurt others is a lie. Atleast in this case. 

 

The brothers main conscern is blood.  Ok... No blood...  But the propocation materials should be of conscern.  The materials can.t be filtered out. 

 

Now i can.t say with great certainty if the liver and other aspects of the bodies defenses can protect against complications of putting weird dna and cell debree in your system...  But i.d be suspect of materials that use immortal cells(cancer).  And especially ground up calf surum. And human diploid cells.  I understand we eat dna in animal products... So i.m not sure if its barking at the wrong tree...  But putting it directly in your arm... Not sure thats a good idea.

 

There shouldbe peaceful discussion... But the need for unity makes it hard...  But i.ve seen all the video.s the brothers have produced and eventhoughthey strongly encourage its not inspired directionin which you can say if you don.t do it you not obeying and your gonna be permanently erased from the universe... I see the brother let you make a choice....  Bethelitez are being asked to leave bethel for not beingvaccinated... But its probly more a ceaser thing rather then a spiritual thing.  Congregations are giving this idea that the brothers are our inspired authority to tell us what to do.   No i don.t think so.  Not in this case.  Jesus said no one is to be called leader. All you are brothers.  And i see the GB being for friendly and humble and loving and helpful....  The individuals in congregations seem to drum up all this authority drama... Its not needed. Christians are taught to be ready to obey.. I prefer cooperation... Whatever... Either way we all are submissive and humble to everyone... Including those that seem to take the lead.

 

Sorry. But yhe brothers are not my medical commanders.  And they don.t cliam to be ecperts in the medical field.  But they are the best ecperts in bible knowledge .  they still make mistakes.... They still make adjustments.... History will eventually correct all lies even if it takes the.new system

 

 

It would be nice if both sides are peaceful... But some who think they are right get little over righteous about it... Not balnced in my opinion

  But whatever... Doesn

T make me balanced either.

 

I hope.the vaccine doesn

T hurt poeple... But please don.t descrimate those that shouldn.t take it and don.t want to... Heard immunity has never been about 100% comliance to get manipulated into vaccines.

 

Blaa blaa... Sorry about grammer and typing.. Fat fingers on a small screen

[Jay Petersen]

Thank you Vern for the support. Being openly mocked and attacked doesn’t feel very good. I am rather dismayed by the reaction of my spiritual brothers and the reluctance to respect a different view on this matter. My opinion just is based on smarter people then me trying to warn others of the dangers of this global experiment being unleashed on unsuspecting peoples. I think this article explains the psychology behind the polarization going on. It helps me have forgiveness for ones who ridicule me and others who are just trying to get  credible information out there.

 

https://www.sott.net/article/462922-Breaking-the-Spell-MindSpace-Trance-Warfare-and-Neuro-Linguistic-Programming

[Shawnster]

3 hours ago, Old said:

Why are you shouting?

He wasn't. It appears Jay bold faced quotes from the site he referenced to distinguish them from his comments. 

[carlos]

1 hour ago, Jay Petersen said:

My opinion just is based on smarter people then me trying to warn others of the dangers of this global experiment being unleashed on unsuspecting peoples.

Jay, you have been a member here for some six months. All the posts you have made in that time were about vaccines and/or conspiracies. And some of them were quite condescending to those who have a different viewpoint.

 

Of course you have a right to your opinion. But this is a Christian community. We use this place to discuss spiritual subjects that are encouraging. And we respect the lead of the Governing Body. If the Slave encourages us to take the covid vaccine when possible, that's enough for us.

 

We would like to hear about your experiences in service, the letters you send, some beautiful point you found in your weekly Bible reading or a fascinating detail from this week's Watchtower article or today's daily scripture. There are many other non-JWs sites in the internet that will be happy to hear those opinions about covid or vaccines, but it's not the kind of discussion we appreciate here.

[Shawnster]

2 hours ago, Jay Petersen said:

Being openly mocked and attacked doesn’t feel very good.

No, it doesn't feel good.  Are you saying you have been picked on here? I see where people have disagreed with you.  I see where Lynn said demonizing the vaccine and promoting what is clearly an anti Vax message is repugnant, but can you show us where you have attacked, mocked, or ridiculed.  On the other hand, I do see where you are trying to play the victim and I have that nice reply you sent me in PM. 

 

You don't want the vaccine? That's cool.  You feel the vaccine is dangerous and that you need to preach the truth to the uneducated masses?  That's not cool.  That's opposite of the direction we've received that the vaccines are safe (in general.  Everything is a danger to someone, even water).  This is not the place to preach an anti vax message. 

[vern]

https://www.sott.net/article/462922-Breaking-the-Spell-MindSpace-Trance-Warfare-and-Neuro-Linguistic-Programming

 

 

Its interesting how these strong differences happen....  But i.m not to worried about getting mind controlled... Faught to hard to get the truth and faith to be unmoved by lies.

 

Jesus tried to help but he said to let the blind lead the blind....  He tried and moved on.  The real force is Jehovah letting diffetent ones learn the truth... We have to respect everyone will.....

[cricket246]

Even though i cannot get the vaccine at this time (due to medical risks from several health problems) I still respect the governing body and trust that they do their best to keep us safe. 🥰

 

Each of us are entitled to our own opinion, but we should never speak against the governing body or God’s Word. 
 

We should all respect each other and not let something like this cause divisions dear ones. 

[comtemplate]

It's so important to keep an open mind when encouraging discussion from others.  When there are closed minds and all subscribe to only 1 point of view it can seem as an attack on anyone who has a difference of opinion.    We're all open minded right?  We have our powers of perception trained as mentioned in the bible.  

 

To be clear the GB stated that getting the injections were something that they saw as a positive decision but urged everyone to prayerfully make decisions that were personal for their families. They specifically asked that we not put our own personal feelings on others who may have chosen to make a different decision from us. 

 

It's the same with education, the GB never said do not go to college.  They did explain dangers that could happen and to be careful and its each family's decision.  

 

 

[hatcheckgirl]

The paper "Innate immune suppression by SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccinations" quoted above by Brother Jay made the interesting assertion that  "research claims to prove that “vaccination, unlike natural infection, induces a profound impairment in type I interferon signaling, which has diverse adverse consequences to human health”. (Link to paper, which I read through, not an easy read).

 

Is it legit?  After all it actually scarily says we who have taken mRNA vaccines are basically doomed.  So I googled a bit further, and yes, it gets more interesting.  

 

Firstly, it is a pre-print.  Meaning it is yet to be properly reviewed by peers.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/357994624_Innate_Immune_Suppression_by_SARS-CoV-2_mRNA_Vaccinations_The_role_of_G-quadruplexes_exosomes_and_microRNAs

 

Secondly, the paper has four authors, including one name that might sound familiar given recent coverage of Joe Rogan’s platforming of COVID-19 and vaccine misinformation: Dr Peter McCullough.

https://www.isdglobal.org/digital_dispatches/the-problem-with-preprints/

 

Thirdly, we are forgetting that the disease itself causes problems with immune Suppression By SARS-CoV-2. https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/12/29/new-evidence-of-immune-suppression-by-sars-cov-2/?sh=135586684e76

 

We are not going to go into pro or anti vaccines again.  Brothers and sisters, we need to make our own personal decisions and base them as best as we can on credible facts and our own personal circumstances.  And we do not benefit if we introduce these sorts of scary "pseudo" evidence.  I know and trust the friends here are not meaning to be freaking us out with these sort of claims.  But stop and think what you are actually posting, and why you need to post.  The majority of us have taken the steps to vaccinate, and now the misleading preprint is coming to the fore?  Why is that?  Is the GB wrong after all?  Will they be compromised because of this decision they took?  Would Jehovah allow the GB and his loyal servants to be mislead by a pharmaceutical conspiracy?

 

Where does this all lead?  To disunity, fear and loss of trust.  Don't go there.  Whether you take a vaccine or not, doesn't mean anything at all as it is a personal decision.  All are welcome at the KH, and that tells us that unity and love is paramount.  But pushing/advocating/scaring/posting  misinformation like the above pre-print is dangerous to our unity and mental health.  You are not doing us any favours by posting this and "letting us know we were wrong".  That is not being "open-minded".  Let us not be distracted and instead keep looking after each others' best interest - Phil 2:4.

 

[Jay Petersen]

And it looks like….I have been dropped. I will leave. 

[Brother_Bliss]

On 5/28/2022 at 10:16 PM, Shawnster said:

You don't want the vaccine? That's cool.  You feel the vaccine is dangerous and that you need to preach the truth to the uneducated masses?  That's not cool.  That's opposite of the direction we've received that the vaccines are safe (in general

Excellent points. This is why anti-vaxx propaganda will not be tolerated on JWTalk. 

 

The mRNA vaccines, after two years and hundreds of millions of people having recieved them with only about .001% having adverse effects, it's dishonest to call it an "experimental" vaccine at this point. Rather, this chart demonstrates that getting vaccinated takes the possiblity of severe sickness and death off the table for most individuals....

 

 

Most people look at that truthful raw data, roll up their sleeves, and say "pump me up!" unless they have a valid medical reason that makes them unable to get one.

 

[Qapla]

There are side effects from the vaccines in some people just as there are side effects of Covid - vaccinated or not. I just did a job for someone I know whose 10-year-old grandson got Covid. He was not vaccinated and had a "mild case". He is now a "Type-1" diabetic ... he was not before getting Covid.

 

Quote

Type 1 diabetes occurs when your immune system, the body's system for fighting infection, attacks and destroys the insulin-producing beta cells of the pancreas. Scientists think type 1 diabetes is caused by genes and environmental factors, such as viruses, that might trigger the disease.

 

So, vaccinated or not, side effects from Covid are something we will have to face in these last days. Who knows what, if any, the next pandemic will bring? Let's hope it doesn't bring another vax ... anti-vax debate, especially amongst Jehovah's people. Let's hope this pointless debate goes away along with Covid.

 

 

[runner92]

On 5/28/2022 at 7:31 PM, Jay Petersen said:

Thank you Vern for the support. Being openly mocked and attacked doesn’t feel very good. I am rather dismayed by the reaction of my spiritual brothers and the reluctance to respect a different view on this matter. My opinion just is based on smarter people then me trying to warn others of the dangers of this global experiment being unleashed on unsuspecting peoples. I think this article explains the psychology behind the polarization going on. It helps me have forgiveness for ones who ridicule me and others who are just trying to get  credible information out there.

 

https://www.sott.net/article/462922-Breaking-the-Spell-MindSpace-Trance-Warfare-and-Neuro-Linguistic-Programming

 

 

This is why I barely bother anymore. People act like you're Satan's follower if you even question the vaccine. It's ridiculous at this point. 

[Dustparticle]

3 hours ago, runner92 said:

 

 

This is why I barely bother anymore. People act like you're Satan's follower if you even question the vaccine. It's ridiculous at this point. 

Sis, no matter some agree you or not, you have every right to express your concerns. 

[Sequoia]

Covid Cases Surge, but Deaths Stay Near Lows (msn.com)

[Brother_Bliss]

4 hours ago, JW2017 said:

Covid Cases Surge, but Deaths Stay Near Lows (msn.com)

And this is what was predicted all along. It's what we call herd immunity. Thanks to both vaccines and natural infection, the majority of individuals are not as at risk for severe illness and death.

 

Of course, anyone who hasn't been infected nor has been vaccinated is still just as at risk as people in early 2020 when people were dropping like flies. 

[Sofia]

43 minutes ago, Brother_Bliss said:

And this is what was predicted all along. It's what we call herd immunity. Thanks to both vaccines and natural infection, the majority of individuals are not as at risk for severe illness and death.

 

Of course, anyone who hasn't been infected nor has been vaccinated is still just as at risk as people in early 2020 when people were dropping like flies. 

Omicron BA.2 and BA.5 are intrinsically less pathogenic than Delta, Alpha or Whuan´s strain.  

[BaconTree]

Two articles that would be good to prayerfully meditate on are:

 

Awake Dec. 2013 - Can you trust the news media?

 

Awake Nov. 22 1990 - Our Immune System - A Miracle of Creation & T Cells and B Cells Go to College

 

These articles have helped me immensely to have a balanced view on the matter.

[Qapla]

Very nice first post